Getting my knickers in a twist about going to court!

[tai24903]

Wow, I'm glad to see I'm not the only person, I was starting to get worried. I received exactly the same defence this morning from Abbey. Same person too.....I'll continue to watch all these threads. Hopefully we'll all be able to help each other along.

Sharon x

[philread1]

Same defence & same person here!!!!!!!!

 

Phil:)

[philread1]

Hello Southerner

 

If you don't mind me asking, which court have you been allocated to?

 

Phil:)

[sutee50]

re post 23

 

I got EXACTLY the same by the same person yesterday. Looking at the AQ now and wondering what to put. Going to post on my thread, so any advice please (sootee50 v shAbbey - looking forward to grinding their noses in the proverbial).

 

It heartening to know that they haven't got any imagination, isn't it?!

[Kirstypops]

And the day after Inga Kirkman wrote to Southerner, she cut and pasted it to me too!

[Glitterari]

And the day after Inga Kirkman wrote to Southerner, she cut and pasted it to me too!

 

 

And my mum!

[Glenn UK]

 

If they're providing a service, fine. They have to show what the service is and how much it cost to provide it. But these are for breaches of contract: you get 'free banking' (ha-ha!) while in credit because...the bank is earning interest by lending on money you lend (deposit) to them.

 

 

Seems to me that if theyre providing a service then you have the choice of whether you would like to be serviced in that way. I dont know about you but i was never asked if i wanted my dd, so,s etc bounced or paid.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[natwesttookmymoney]

Seems to me that if theyre providing a service then you have the choice of whether you would like to be serviced in that way. I dont know about you but i was never asked if i wanted my dd, so,s etc bounced or paid.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

Personally, I think a service is something that adds value; it certainly involves time and effort or activity, usually by a human being! A computer doing its computer stuff, the automated notification, the automatic payment or refusal, doesn't fall under that heading. Having said that, the Bank is entitled to charge the actual cost to the customer of dealing with the incident. If it does, as the guy from the Banking Association (I think) said - i.e., pulling the payment out of the system, checking the recent credit record, considering and making a humnan decision after discussion, then it's entitled to charge for it. But they have to prove that it's been done. I've asked for evidence of manual intervention three times so far and answer came there.....none. Because there ain't any: it's all automatic. In the 1980s and 90s they invested £millions in automation, got rid of hundreds of thousands of staff members, de-skilled the branches and automated clearing, account analysis and incident management in order to....cut their costs! Those savings have not been passed on to customers. NatWest pushed up the 'card misuse fee' from £25 to £35 in one go, in Spring 2005. What was the extra cost they were incurring? I have no idea and nor do they.

 

If in doubt about the human intervention, just tell me the last time you (or anyone) spoke to a branch staff member who had the power to do anything or make any decision. Or even anyone from the call centre, lending centre, regional management centre or whatever who had power to make a decision. Or even anyone who even knew what had happened!!

Westie

[Glenn UK]

I think you missed the point.

 

a service is something the bank provides you at your request, e.g. you ask for an overdraft, they provide you with the service and can therefore charge you for it.

 

If they offer it you have the choice of whether to accept or not.

 

When you got your T&Cs it didn't, or at least mine didn't, say you have the choice, we can either refuse to pay all of your DDs, SO's etc if there isn't any money in your account or we can, when we want to, and we will change our mind depending on which way the wind blows, pay them and charge you for it.

 

which option do you want?

 

 

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[natwesttookmymoney]

I think you missed the point.

 

Not intentionally, and apologies for any unintended whatever caused.

 

No, my ultimate point was - they're not providing a service so they shouldn;t charge as if they are.

 

(Write out 1000 times: I must not be so verbose the words get in the way of the message because doing so can cause unintended offence and leave those reading confused. If you don't stop doing it....)etc.

 

That was a joke at my own expense.

 

Westy

[Glenn UK]

Westy

 

dont worry mate the transm ission of information vie these forums is fraught with problems.

 

Glenn

[bill-k]

(Write out 1000 times: I must not be so verbose the words get in the way of the message because doing so can cause unintended offence and leave those reading confused. If you don't stop doing it....)etc.

 

Point taken, here, particularly. Worth a click in my case. :grin:

 

Message ends.

[natwesttookmymoney]

Point taken, here, particularly. Worth a click in my case. :grin:

 

Message ends.

 

[southerner]

I didn't realise how much activity there'd been on this thread over the past few days! (I haven't been receiving the instant email notifications)

 

I've now received the Allocation questionnaire (N150), which I'm completing with help from the completion guide on this site, however I have a couple of queries:

 

Section D:

What amount of the claim is in dispute?

The amount of the claim will have increased since the claim was first submitted and will increase again by the court date due to interest being added. Do I use the amount at today's date, or the amount when the claim was originally submitted?

 

Which track do you consider is most suitable for your claim?

Because I'm claiming more than £5,000 this claim should be allocated to Fast Track. However, I'm going to request that it is allocated to Small Claims using the text given in the guide. Is this the place to make that request, or should I put it in the other info box at the end? Which box should I tick?

 

Section F:

Proposed directions

It's unclear in the guide what should be put here.

 

Section H:

Do you intend to make any applications in the immediate future?

What does this mean?

 

Should I attach copies of all correspondence between myself and the bank, or should I list the dates and type of letters sent/received in the other info box? Should I also point out in this box that I have given ample time and opportunity to the bank to resolve this matter?

 

Should I send a copy of the N150 to the bank?

 

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

[Glenn UK]

I'm just completing mine so know where your coming from with the questions.

 

I didn't realise how much activity there'd been on this thread over the past few days! (I haven't been receiving the instant email notifications)

 

I've now received the Allocation questionnaire (N150), which I'm completing with help from the completion guide on this site, however I have a couple of queries:

 

Section D:

What amount of the claim is in dispute?

The amount of the claim will have increased since the claim was first submitted and will increase again by the court date due to interest being added. Do I use the amount at today's date, or the amount when the claim was originally submitted?

 

I put the value as per the particulars of claim but agree its not clear, in truth i cant see that it matters since the amount will increase before the claim is heard anyway, so whatever you do the value will be 'wrong'. I think its aimed at finding out if the defendant agrees any of the claim.

 

Which track do you consider is most suitable for your claim?

Because I'm claiming more than £5,000 this claim should be allocated to Fast Track. However, I'm going to request that it is allocated to Small Claims using the text given in the guide. Is this the place to make that request, or should I put it in the other info box at the end? Which box should I tick?

 

I would make the observation here about the track.

Section F:

Proposed directions

It's unclear in the guide what should be put here.

 

I'm not sure i agree if your asking the court to force the defendant to do something then you may be proposing a direction. I suspect if you don't know then you aren't but wouldn't guarantee it.

If you ask for SCC then its likely the judge wouldn't order standard disclosure although you never know, if you go fast track then its probable they will.

 

Section H:

Do you intend to make any applications in the immediate future?

What does this mean?

 

I guess the answer is no since you don't know. Sorry if that sounds funny but if you intend to apply to the court to do anything in the future then i guess you would know now.

 

Should I attach copies of all correspondence between myself and the bank, or should I list the dates and type of letters sent/received in the other info box? Should I also point out in this box that I have given ample time and opportunity to the bank to resolve this matter?

 

Not all of the correspondence, just anything directly applicable to the information you included in the N150. for example i have written out a letter requesting a number of things and the reasons why, i have also supplied some other information which i will attach too.

 

Should I send a copy of the N150 to the bank?

 

I think its optional, i suspect they will get a copy soon enough if you don't.

 

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[southerner]

Thanks Glenn. I'll work on the form today.

 

Section F:

Proposed directions

It's unclear in the guide what should be put here.

 

I'm not sure i agree if your asking the court to force the defendant to do something then you may be proposing a direction. I suspect if you don't know then you aren't but wouldn't guarantee it.

 

If you ask for SCC then its likely the judge wouldn't order standard disclosure although you never know, if you go fast track then its probable they will.

I think I'll include the following paragraph here just in case I do get allocated to the SCC:

 

I would respectfully ask that the court in this case, not withstanding allocation to the small claims track, order standard disclosure. I understand that it is in the courts discretion to do so. I believe this would bring a rapid end to this litigation.

[southerner]

Totally out of the blue, I received the archived statements this morning for 2 out of the 3 accounts I'm claiming on.

 

On one of the accounts I had underestimated the charges by over £500. Unfortunately, though, I had overestimated on the other account! The net balance is that Abbey owes me £60 more than I have claimed for.

 

How should I handle this since I have already sent off my AQ? Should I write to Abbey with new spreadsheets and copy the letter to the court?

 

Alternatively, I could wait for Abbey's 50% offer and tell them at that time that if they pay without going to court I will accept the original amount I claimed for + the court costs I've paid so far.

[grumpy guts]

 

Alternatively, I could wait for Abbey's 50% offer and tell them at that time that if they pay without going to court I will accept the original amount I claimed for + the court costs I've paid so far.

 

Without the interest? They had the option to pay without interest when you sent your preliminary request, I wouldn't forego that. THEY chose to drag it out.

[southerner]

The £60 includes the interest.

 

I wouldn't forgo the interest on the whole claim - it comes to £2,400 (so far)!

[southerner]

I spoke to the court this morning who informed me that Abbey has returned the AQ. I should receive a letter advising me what's happening next by the end of next week.

 

What should I do about the change of the amount of the claim? Apart from having updated 2 of the accounts when I received the archived statements from the bank, I found an error on the third. Should I advise the court or Abbey of this now or wait until I have to send the next lot of papers? Should I point out that there has been a change?

 

I understand that I can claim my expenses at £9.25/hour + paper, ink, postage etc. When should I do this? If I settle out of court will I still be able to claim this? If not, I might use it as bargaining tool if the bank offers a partial settlement.

[sutee50]

Southerner #48

"I understand that I can claim my expenses at £9.25/hour + paper, ink, postage etc. When should I do this? If I settle out of court will I still be able to claim this? If not, I might use it as bargaining tool if the bank offers a partial settlement."

 

Where did you get this from and how do you work it out? I hadn't a clue about it, duh!

[bill-k]

Southerner #48

"I understand that I can claim my expenses at £9.25/hour + paper, ink, postage etc. When should I do this? If I settle out of court will I still be able to claim this? If not, I might use it as bargaining tool if the bank offers a partial settlement."

 

Where did you get this from and how do you work it out? I hadn't a clue about it, duh!

 

FWIW, Sutee - I have seen this discussed elsewhere here, myself, but I really can't remember which thread(s). Might have been "A New Way of Looking at Interest," - that's such a huge thread that there's not much that hasn't been discussed there !! I myself have sent in claims which included £6.00 per letter, plus £30.00 for preparing my claim. So far, no arguments - but I've only had 2 settlements so far, both pre-court.

[southerner]

Copied from the newsletter:

 

Fast-Tracked? - Claim your costs.

Don't forget that if you have been fast-tracked you can claim your costs. Under CPR 48 you are entitled to claim your reasonable costs of £9.25 per hour plus expenses. However, don't get greedy! If you learn that you have been fast-tracked - or if you are claiming more than £5000 you should start keeping a proper record of what you spend on paper, postage, printer ink etc. Also keep a running total of the minutes you spend dealing with the claim including telephone, travel and on-line research time.

 

If it comes as a surprise to you that you have been fast-tracked, then go back over the time you have spent and make a reasonable assessment of the time so far. So far as possible itemise it in a spreadsheet and update the spreadsheet regularly as you spend more time. Don't be shy about this. You can expect that the banks are paying their solicitors £200 per hour for fighting you.

 

Although I've asked for my case to be allocated to small claims, my claim is for over £10K so it will probably remain in fast track.

 

Bill - were the claims that you charged on small claims?

[bill-k]

Thanks for pasting up the newsletter details, Southerner. And, yes, my claims have all been Small Claims, so far !!

 

But so far, none have been scrutinised by a Judge AFAIK, as they have simply been served & settled (or are still pending).

 

Any objections, I'll let you know here.

 

Bill.

[bill-k]

Have a read of Lost In Paradises thread - shes currently fighting abbey for her costs after a refund of her charges + interest + court costs.

 

Cheers, K - that thread seems worth a butcher's.