Lombard and Shoosmiths

[Scania580man]

http://s1092.photobucket.com/albums/i408/Scania580man/

[Scania580man]

Hopefully this has worked!

[Andyorch]

Yep its unregulated so no CCA protection.

 

Andy

[Scania580man]

So have you any idea what I can do about Shoosmiths?

[Andyorch]

I personally would call their bluff and let them instigate if they wish, you have all the paperwork and proof of offers re settlement.

You just want to pay the shortfall if that entails having a CCJ to facilitate this the so be it or they may mediate once you have them on the litigation trail.

 

Andy

[Scania580man]

Do you know if I am correct in insisting that I should not have to pay the VAT element. Shoosmiths and Lombard insist that it clearly states that the VAT is not payable if they terminate the agreement but I cannot find any clause which mentions anything about VAT?

[Andyorch]

Vat is not my forte Scania, if there is no mention in the agreement then its for them to prove otherwise.

 

Andy

[bazaar]

VAT is shown as chargeable in the table. However, be very careful what you sign off to Shoosmiths, ask yoursefl why they would want you to sign up to the full amount. If you dispute the figures and Lombard have been unreasonable, then it has to be decided in court.

You have the paperwork to prove youve been reasonable, so as Andy says, maybe call their bluff and see if they really have the stomach for a court appearance.

[Scania580man]

Thanks Bazaar, I have e-mailed Shoosmiths telling them that I agree I am liable for part of the debt but will not admit to the full amount. I have told them I will continue to make regular payments. As Lombard have told Shoosmiths that the problems I have raised with the VAT are dealt with in the Terms & Conditions I have pointed out to Shoosmiths that it does not mention anything about VAT in the terms and conditions and definitely nothing about losing the right to pay or reclaim it. I have told them that I will not be bullied into accepting the full amount by being blackmailed with court proceedings and if they so wish to go down that route then sobeit. I have also pointed out that Lombard offered to reduce the debt by £4,000 not too long ago and this was just for the "errors" they have made.

 

I will see what happens. Thank you all.

[Scania580man]

I have now received a response from Shoosmiths, as follows:-

 

"Our client has made its final position quite clear, and we do not propose to litigate this matter in

correspondence.

If we do not hear from you within 7 days of the date of this letter with your proposals for payment of

the full outstanding balance due to our client under the above agreement, we will be compelled to

issue Court proceedings against you to recover this sum, plus costs and interest."

 

Surely the court will not be too impressed if they issue court proceedings and I have admitted that part of the debt is my responsibility and am making regular payments? What is the normal action of Shoosmiths because I think they probably use the same format.

 

Is anyone else struggling with Shoosmiths?

 

For the sake of clarity we require your response by Thursday 29 September 2011.

[Scania580man]

Just an additional thought - it is worth writing to the FSA regarding Lombard's conduct?

[Andyorch]

Pre Action Conduct PD

 

Section 1 :-

Examples of non-compliance

 

4.4

 

The court may decide that there has been a failure of compliance by a party because, for example, that party has –

(1) not provided sufficient information to enable the other party to understand the issues;

 

(2) not acted within a time limit set out in a relevant pre-action protocol, or, where no specific time limit applies, within a reasonable period;

 

(3) unreasonably refused to consider ADR (paragraph 8 in Part III of this Practice Direction and the pre-action protocols all contain similar provisions about ADR); or

 

(4) without good reason, not disclosed documents requested to be disclosed.

 

 

 

 

Just bear the above in mind Scania with regards to their statement "Our client has made its final position quite clear, and we do not propose to litigate this matter incorrespondence."

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Scania580man]

Thanks Andy.

 

Shoosmiths have stated they want me to accept full liability of the debt by Thursday next week. I took the liberty of telephoning HMRC and asking about the VAT and they have stated that regardless of the contract being terminated VAT is still chargeable and recoverable.

 

I have written to Shoosmiths and told them what HMRC have informed me and I have asked Shoosmiths that for the avoidance of court proceedings if Lombard and/or their accountants can provide written legislation whereby the VAT element is unenforceable then I will agree to be liable for the whole amount of the debt, however, if they cannot provide this information then Lombard should reduce the amount of the debt by the VAT which I was unable to reclaim.

 

By me giving them this option and, if they refuse, it definitely means they have been non-compliant.

 

Thank you very much, that's very helpful.

[Scania580man]

Hi I have still been arguing with Shoosmiths over the VAT etc and the fact that they haven't explained to me in full why this issue has not been addressed. Shoosmiths took their time but eventually sent me a reply which meant nothing. I got the feeling they were trying to make the matter so complicated and so confusing for anyone outside the legal profession to understand that they hoped I would just accept what they said and agree to pay the full amount. In essence they stood by the fact that I was not entitled to VAT documentation because I had sold the trailer and it didn't belong to me - which just didn't make any sense.

 

Just so happened to look on the Lombard website and it clearly states that if you sell the vehicle to a third party then you will be provided with the relevant VAT documentation. I have quoted this to Shoosmiths and told them that I intend to take the matter up with Lombard's MD. I have heard nothing further from Shoosmiths yet.

 

However, my main concern is that Lombard have actually made an "enquiry" on my credit file. I'm not sure if they can do that or not as the original credit agreement was outside the Consumer Credit Act, I have not given them permission to do so and was not aware that they were going to. Does anyone know where I stand on this please?

 

Thanks

[Scania580man]

Can anyone help with this problem please.

 

I have been making payments to Lombard but have been insisting that we come to an agreement on the outstanding balance.

 

Because I won't agree to the full amount they refused to correspond with me and ignored my communications.

 

However, when I did not make the payment on time they miraculously threatened court proceedings.

 

I explained that I had only done this to prompt a response but they still want me to agree to the full amount.

 

However they asked me to make a without prejudice offer so I offered a final amount of £5,000 payable at £20 per week.

They initially said they considered that offer to be too low and I pointed out to them that they had an obligation to take their client's instructions.

 

I have commenced payments of £20 per week but they are now saying they will issue court proceedings and they will not accept a final figure of £5,000

and they are not willing to suggest an offer.

 

I have a written letter whereby Lombard state I owe just over £9k but they now say that is a mistake.

They keep insisting that I complete a Income and Expenditure Form and if I don't they will institute court proceedings.

What the hell can I do?

 

I don't particularly want this to go to court but I fear unless I give into their demands I will be left with no choice.

 

However, I would have thought that the court would have not been too happy about this if I am already making payments. Any info would be gratefully received.

 

I have until Monday at 4pm to submit the Income form - they also want details of my employers and my wife's earnings details - can they ask for these?

[Andyorch]

Keep the payments going Scania your choice to submit a I&E but if you do its your financial details only and a very basic one at that.

 

Andy

[Scania580man]

Thanks Andy

 

Are Shoosmiths likely to issue court proceedings against me or do they jus threaten and use bully tactics?

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Scania,

They may, but it might be to your advantage if they do if they're pulling the wool over your eyes re the VAT. Which is why they are doing exactly what they claim not to be doing: litigating by post.

I notice it says on the agreement that the trailer never becomes your property and must not be sold. I wonder if someone at Lombard has dropped a huge one in the first place by OK'ing the sale.

I would send a Data Subject Access Request to Lombard to try and get to the bottom of this.

Failing all else, if it was me I'd just keep steadfastly paying until the amount I believed I was liable for was paid, but not the VAT. I doubt they'd risk litigating purely on the VAT element.

Elsa x