What can you do if your Doctor won't give you a sick note?

[frank_begbie]

Failed at my appeal the other day, and have started my claim for Jobseekers.

 

So was wondering, if I go to the doctors next week and tell her my condition has worsened and can I have another sick note? She has given me 3 over the past year with no problem.

What if she refuses to give me one, this time?

 

Am I right in thinking that she would have to give me a note saying what jobs or what things I should avoid when applying for jobs.

I suffer from Depression, Anxiety and back Pain, by the way.

[leemack]

If your doctor won't give you a sick note when you feel you're unable to work, then it means your doctor thinks you're fit for work. I would start by discussing your symptoms and having a discussion about why your GP feels you're fit for work. But if he won't give you one, you can try another doctor. Or if you think that the decision is wrong and the doc has some sort of agenda or is discriminatory, then you could start a complants process.

[frank_begbie]

If your doctor won't give you a sick note when you feel you're unable to work, then it means your doctor thinks you're fit for work. I would start by discussing your symptoms and having a discussion about why your GP feels you're fit for work. But if he won't give you one, you can try another doctor. Or if you think that the decision is wrong and the doc has some sort of agenda or is discriminatory, then you could start a complants process.

 

Thanks.

 

Obviously I'm hoping it doesn't come to this but I just want to be prepared for the worst.

[frank_begbie]

Looks like it was the Sick note I was thinking of.

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/med3-fitnote-sample.pdf

 

 

 

Your doctor can tick certain boxes if he thinks you may only be able to return/look for work, only under certain circumstances.

 

Such as amended duties, or may only be able to work part time and so on.

They can also write comments about your illness and how it may affect your ability to do certain tasks.

[leemack]

(posted before I read the above post)

 

You can put in the complaint, but it doesn't mean that the doctor's view won't be upheld - you would have to provide compelling evidence of wrong doing on the part of the doctor. If you think you may have problems then record the consultation - then this will provide evidence.

 

An example:

 

My partner had an major anxiety attack in the doctor's waiting room for an appointment to get a sick note. He had to go home without seeing the doctor, and I made another appt for him for a week later. He had been seeing the GP for the same issue for several months. When we asked the doctor for a backdated sick note to the week before, he refused. We asked him why he refused and he said 'I don't feel like giving it you'. During the appt I had been polite, but had questionned his lack of treatment plan and unwillingness to refer to a specialist in light of my partners deteriorating condition. Refusing the sick note was his way of getting back at us for questionning him. I really wish I'd recorded that appointment - he was a terrible doctor and needed to be struck off. This was the same doctor who after my partner had been off for a month with severe anxiety, depression and agoraphobia - told him that he was reluctant to give a sick note as my partner's employer would sack him if he had more time off (this was the first time off he'd ever had and the doctor did not know the employer at all), imagine telling that to a person with severe anxiety and depression! Should have recorded that appt too.

Edited July 15, 2011 by leemack

[frank_begbie]

That's terrible.

 

I've always been a bit suspicious about Doctors. When the government are your paymasters your more inclined to follow their "advice".

 

A bit like ATOS.

[RaeUK]

... I've always been a bit suspicious about Doctors ... A bit like ATOS.

 

Most GP's are good GP's. They are worth their weight in gold. If, like me, you are long term sick then having a full, frank and sound working relationship with your GP is essential. I have been with the same GP for well over ten years. They have seen me totally fit and healthy. They have seen me deteriorate over the years. They know me very very well. There is a lot of mutual trust. They also know I don't see them as infallible. I will question, ask for explanations. I will research as best I can. This works well as my GP fully appreciates that I'm happy to get a grip of my illness, manage my symptoms and get by the best I can. They also appreciate both my desire to work and my severe limitations in what is feasible. These days, my GP is no longer someone I see when I have a bad sniffle. They are very much part of my support team. Working with me. Paid a lot? You bet, but worth every penny. Similar to ATOS? Not even close. I doubt very much that my GP would ever sell their soul to the devil and work for that bunch of lying miscreants ...

Rae.

[frank_begbie]

Most GP's are good GP's. They are worth their weight in gold. If, like me, you are long term sick then having a full, frank and sound working relationship with your GP is essential. I have been with the same GP for well over ten years. They have seen me totally fit and healthy. They have seen me deteriorate over the years. They know me very very well. There is a lot of mutual trust. They also know I don't see them as infallible. I will question, ask for explanations. I will research as best I can. This works well as my GP fully appreciates that I'm happy to get a grip of my illness, manage my symptoms and get by the best I can. They also appreciate both my desire to work and my severe limitations in what is feasible. These days, my GP is no longer someone I see when I have a bad sniffle. They are very much part of my support team. Working with me. Paid a lot? You bet, but worth every penny. Similar to ATOS? Not even close. I doubt very much that my GP would ever sell their soul to the devil and work for that bunch of lying miscreants ...

Rae.

 

Yes I suppose its all down to luck whether you get a dyed in the wool raving Tory or a bit of a left winger willing to buck the system.

[RaeUK]

Yes I suppose its all down to luck whether you get a dyed in the wool raving Tory or a bit of a left winger willing to buck the system.

 

I don't think so. I haven't the faintest idea what my GP's politics are as they have no effect on their ability to do their job well. If there is any luck involved, it is living within the catchment of a very good practice.

If, for whatever reason, somebody doesn't feel they are getting the support they need from their GP practice, then they should examine the situation and change GP's if necessary ...

Rae.

[whitecraig_wizard]

Firstly, it is no longer a sick note but a fit note your gp provides. may I suggest that you start by explaining your symptoms and discuss how they impact upon you and what work it is considered safe for you to do and that will not exacerbate your underlying condition, also what problems any medication could caused, inability to operate machinery or drive for example.Secondly, I would ask that they give consideration that you are someone protected by the equalities act, (the old DDA) in that you are disabled and state so. This can be helpful in dealing with the DWP for appointments etc, if they are aware you are disabled they have duty to make reasonable adjustments, ie time of signing on etc.Thirdly, My wife has been seeing the same GP for the past 15 years I have never once asked about his political beliefs or he mine and trust I'm a really bolshy person. However, we work together for the best interests of my wife, doesn't mean we always agree or see eye to eye but we that respect each other. If it ain't working change the GP !

[seen this before]

i would look to see if your covered under the equality act,this will add a substantial weight behind any further problems that may be encountered.it only needs to to be more then minor or trivial to be covered.

 

benefits like jobseekers allowance and the people that implement them are a major problem for the disabled,i have had an interview for the work programme and certainly that did not go well,the attitude was set before the advisor met me,i showed proof of my disabilities learning difficulties'/mental health problems but still it persisted,naturally my anxiety went up and i started to ramble.

 

much as pixy mentioned and found the attitude was my benefits would be stopped as they saw fit even though no claim for had been submitted.i have never seen atos or claimed the sickness benefits but over the time was suggested i claim them,even this time are your sure you well enough,what this adviser didn't see only what she wanted too "i am treating you the same as anyone else" however it goes much deeper,the moment i stumble because of this dreadful program lasting two years this kicks in.

 

(3) The first requirement is a requirement, where a provision, criterion or practice of A's

puts a disabled person at a substantial disadvantage in relation to a relevant matter in

comparison with persons who are not disabled, to take such steps as it is reasonable to

have to take to avoid the disadvantage.

 

taken from the equity act,still this person phoned this provider one of the first words ay disabilities then silence,i mentioned to this advisor the provider went quite this was ignored and still this went on.

 

the danger with frank and any others like myself this while being played down,i was told to "shut up about it" by the shaw trust by an awful woman that hated the out of work .its not surprising that fell through,is the fact that you are very likely to be out of work for many years as the problems encountered through a disability are faced.

 

one side of the work programe mentions "sanction(ed) twelve times,sending a disabled person with depression into that environment.the outcome is predictable.

[leemack]

Firstly, it is no longer a sick note but a fit note your gp provides.

 

I still use the term 'med cert' as 'fit note' is a really stupid term.

[RaeUK]

I use the term 'unfit note' ...

[leemack]

I use the term 'unfit note' ...

 

Yep, I like that much better!

[frank_begbie]

benefits like jobseekers allowance and the people that implement them are a major problem for the disabled,i have had an interview for the work programme and certainly that did not go well,the attitude was set before the advisor met me,i showed proof of my disabilities learning difficulties'/mental health problems but still it persisted,naturally my anxiety went up and i started to ramble.

 

Seen This Before.

 

I'm surprised that any Work Programme Provider would consider taking on a disabled person, as they would be harder to place in a work environment.

 

Unless the government have stipulated they must take on a certain percentage of disabled people?

[seen this before]

the whole thing was intimidating and this woman was "hell bent" on shoving me onto this.it looks that the term persecuted wouldn't be a wrong word to describe those on jobseekers disabled or not.

 

the job centre tried to get me to sign a sheet keeping all complaints internally also,ie not delt with in eight weeks contact a unknown "independent case examiner", the whole procedure looks intimidating with "sanction" heavily mentioned.this is both unfair and discriminatory. it creats an impression this is inevitable.

 

its potentially discriminatory to sign a piece of paper that claims i must participate/engage in all activities as directed going on to mention again sanctions.without mentioning what these are,this breaches the equality act and may well breech eu directives too.and this is just at the job centre.

 

this paper should not be given to disabled people (or anyone else) and expect them to sign (i didnt)

 

its happened before equality act breeches at the job centre denied and then claimed as a misunderstanding with the guardian whistleblower coverage.

 

if your covered frank more then twelve months it may be well just asking the gp upfront am i covered by this act,its a heavyweight legally and those that breech it penalties are severe.this may well be that complaints are held internally by jobcentre plus and those employed by them,if the paperwork is signed they can say you breached an agreement to keep it as such.it could potentially undermine any later proceedings.be careful what you sign the message.

 

it should be noted that the independent case examiner has a dwp e mail address.

Edited July 17, 2011 by seen this before

[speedfreek]

Hold on there cowboy/gal

 

http://www.ind-case-exam.org.uk/

 

ICE is where certain complaints end up if the in house departments complaint procedure fails and there's nowhere left to go.

 

The Independent Case Examiner aims to make a difference to the lives of individuals through the fair examination of their complaints by acting as a catalyst for change to improve the customer service of the Agencies/Businesses with which we are associated.

 

It's even been recommended to people on here by our ever wondrous and omnipotent board guide Erika

[seen this before]

it cannot be denied that keeping a complaints procedure internally and expected to sign for this is unfair/unreasonable.its the standard you'd expect form a sloppy debt collector.

 

he (the independent case examiner) has a dwp email address.the time given before he looks at a case if unheard from the provider is eight weeks.

 

http://www.ind-case-exam.org.uk/en/contact/index.asp#email

 

mention an outside solicitor brought in shook the place.

 

are the people employed by these providers crb checked to work with vulnerable adults?.i suffer from anxiety and its the job centre that triggered another attack.its not disability friendly.

 

i don't know about anyone else but i am not buying what their selling.

Edited July 17, 2011 by seen this before
update

[frank_begbie]

Maybe there's method in their madness.

 

If they're hostile to you, you're more likely to say to yourself "the hell with this I'll get another sick note and go back on ESA".

 

Which is what they want everyone to do, to disguise the unemployment figures.

[seen this before]

that may be the case certainly people were being moved off jobseeking benefits just to keep the figures down.

its very obvious those with disabilities' are being targeted for dubious reasons'.this is very true. also another theory governments' have a long memory of groups' that have caused them problems in the past.we've seen this in the early eighties and now were seeing it with the disabled today.they feel they need to take them on head to head and "deal with them".

[speedfreek]

Frank why do you think that they will not give you a new med cert?

 

I was really worried when the nice lady Dr I was seeing left the practice and I had to see a new GP. That sent me balistic as I've had a few bad experiences with another Dr at that practice. Even took in the regs to prove that he could give me certs whilst I appealed after ATOS gave me 0 points. I was having kittens over that! You know what it was all fine and although I still have my doubts about them I think they might just understand me.

 

Baclk to the subject since you're past 6 months since the original decision you can re-apply with your existing condition. If your GP supported you then then there's no reason why they shouldn't now. They're not stupid (lots of exams to pass to be a GP), nor do they like their professional opinion doubted.

 

The only issue they may have is with mis-understanding DWP guidence as it is ambiguous in parts to say the least.

 

Any probs there and the gang here will find the right regs to show them.

 

See here http://www.dwp.gov.uk/healthcare-professional/frequently-asked-questions/

 

Do I have to provide a further medical statement to a patient who has been advised by Jobcentre Plus that they are not entitled to Incapacity Benefit or Employment and Support Allowance?

 

If the appeal is unsuccessful, you should only issue further statements if their condition worsens significantly or they have a new medical condition.

 

Whilst that is true.... it is only true for the claim that has just ended.

 

It makes it sound like they should write no more med certs for you! Which is untrue as a GP is free to write med certs for a new claim for the same condition to support a new claim as and when they wish.

 

N.B. for clarity an appeal is a continuation of the existing claim therefore a continuation of the same series of med certs.

[frank_begbie]

Frank why do you think that they will not give you a new med cert?

 

I was really worried when the nice lady Dr I was seeing left the practice and I had to see a new GP. That sent me balistic as I've had a few bad experiences with another Dr at that practice. Even took in the regs to prove that he could give me certs whilst I appealed after ATOS gave me 0 points. I was having kittens over that! You know what it was all fine and although I still have my doubts about them I think they might just understand me.

 

Baclk to the subject since you're past 6 months since the original decision you can re-apply with your existing condition. If your GP supported you then then there's no reason why they shouldn't now. They're not stupid (lots of exams to pass to be a GP), nor do they like their professional opinion doubted.

 

The only issue they may have is with mis-understanding DWP guidence as it is ambiguous in parts to say the least.

 

Any probs there and the gang here will find the right regs to show them.

 

See here http://www.dwp.gov.uk/healthcare-professional/frequently-asked-questions/

 

 

 

Whilst that is true.... it is only true for the claim that has just ended.

 

It makes it sound like they should write no more med certs for you! Which is untrue as a GP is free to write med certs for a new claim for the same condition to support a new claim as and when they wish.

 

N.B. for clarity an appeal is a continuation of the existing claim therefore a continuation of the same series of med certs.

 

 

Thanks for the information.

 

Me being a pessimist, I always look on the black side and expect the worst.

 

 

I am at present claiming JSA. As soon as the benefit starts going into my account I will go to see my GP.

I had no problem getting a second sick note after the ATOS 'medical' so by all accounts I should get a note this time I suppose.

The last time I claimed JSA my benefit was suspended, so don't want to return to that if I can avoid it.

[justsurviving]

I have a medical on 12th Aug..All geared up and ready. My CPN said she would accompany me if I give her enough warning in advance.

From what I have read on this thread, it will almost likely go to an appeal. I will fight for what is right. I suffer biopolar.

[WJF]

After collapsing at work with excrutiating pain in my head

I was on the sick for a lenghty period of time and ultimately lost my job.

 

8 months later my GP finally referred me to a specialist, who was appalled that I was not referred sooner.

 

4 years later I miss an appointment with my neurologist and had to make a new one through my GP,

this actually took 4 years before the GPs actually put me in touch with my neurologist again.

 

Around the same time as the new referal I was put on the work program by the job centre, not given an interview or an assessment

just placed on the work program which immediately made me a target for ATOS.

 

Seeing as I have always found it near impossible to see the same GP on two consecutive appointments

I am always having to re-explain myself over and over again despite letters from my neurologist.

 

I have to fight for each and every sicknote ..

. which I must say the GP does tick the unfit for work box each time.

 

My previous one was for 2 months,

my most recent one was for 2 weeks because this GP said they are only for those who are unfit for work

despite the fact that it is not his call as my neurologist has already stated I am unfit for work at the moment

due to the severity and randomness of my chronic migraines.

 

My point here is that some GPs just seem to take a disliking to some patients

and only seem to add to the pressures they are under.

 

The work program was brought in in full force to make everyone a fair target for ATOS,

I was advised by DWP that I was technically disabled due ot the severity of my illness

but as ATOS deems that not to be so

 

I am now on month 5 waiting for my tribunal as I lost the first 2 steps of the appeal process

despite proving that the report given by the ATOS nurse was highily inaccurate and in several points totally fabricated.

 

It is all the system to kick people off benefits,

I know it is meant to target benefit frauds

but there are more true sufferers being targeted than not atm.

 

If your GP is not giving you a sicknote then demand there and then to speak to the head GP of the surgery,

failing that make a formal complaint at reception.

 

Remember any complaint you make must be written down and you must recieve a copy within 3 days.

 

If you make a complaint by email or letter then you should recieve a reply, by law, within 3 days of the surgery receiving your complaint.

 

If you are still unhappy with the results or lack thereof then it is time to contact the ombudsman.

[dx100uk]

nice of you to comment and help

but the thread is very old

 

dx