Got the ET3 so what happens next

[Marieleeza]

Hello Caggers,

 

I recently got the ET3 defence form from employer for disability discrimination case. It says that I am not disabled and claim out of time etc. It is not a great defence but what happens now? I have read up but am confused about the difference between a preliminary hearing and a pre-hearing review. I think I want to get my lawyer to evaluate the case and initiate the hearing or review or whatever. Any advice?

[honeybee13]

Hello Caggers,

 

I recently got the ET3 defence form from employer for disability discrimination case. It says that I am not disabled and claim out of time etc. It is not a great defence but what happens now? I have read up but am confused about the difference between a preliminary hearing and a pre-hearing review. I think I want to get my lawyer to evaluate the case and initiate the hearing or review or whatever. Any advice?

 

Hello there, welcome to CAG.

 

I think you may need to tell us more about your claim for us to help you.

 

Do you think you're disabled please? And is your claim out of time, being around 3 months?

 

If you're confused about the different hearings, has your lawyer explained that? Please give us more information if you can.

 

My best, HB

[RachelMD]

What will happen now is that the Employment Judge who is handling your case will give directions as to how it is to proceed.

The ET will be in contact in due course. You'll probably also be contacted by ACAS.

[Marieleeza]

Thanks for the replies folks.

 

Yes I am disabled within the meaning of the Equality Act 2010 in that I have had a problem which affects mobility for more than 12 months. I was diagnosed by my own doctor and this was confirmed by Occ Health.

 

My claim was not out of time but they are disputing the continuous course of action. I have someone lined up to assess the claim - reliable person and not a rip off - but I am anxious to get these spurious objections knocked on the head as soon as possible as they are attacking the validity of me clalim. I just want to get past that hurdle and get a hearing date. I cannot tell the difference between a preliminary hearing and a prehearing review. Lawyer will help but I would like to find out for myself, if possible.

[Marieleeza]

Yes Rachel,

 

I have talked to the ACAS counsellor who did not seem to believe in the ACAS guidelines. She reminded me of the Australian vicar who told the Bishop that he did not believe in God and got the sack. He went to Australian ET and lost because the Bishop turned up and swore on the bible and was believed.

[honeybee13]

Thanks for the replies folks.

 

Yes I am disabled within the meaning of the Equality Act 2010 in that I have had a problem which affects mobility for more than 12 months. I was diagnosed by my own doctor and this was confirmed by Occ Health.

 

My claim was not out of time but they are disputing the continuous course of action. I have someone lined up to assess the claim - reliable person and not a rip off - but I am anxious to get these spurious objections knocked on the head as soon as possible as they are attacking the validity of me clalim. I just want to get past that hurdle and get a hearing date. I cannot tell the difference between a preliminary hearing and a prehearing review. Lawyer will help but I would like to find out for myself, if possible.

 

Hello again. You seem to me like someone who can do her own research. Have you looked at places like the ACAS website, or directgov for instance, or the Tribunal Service's own one? I'm sure there are plenty of other websites you can look at.

 

My best, HB

[Marieleeza]

I have looked all over Honeybee but they really don't differentiate between the preliminary hearing and pre-hearing review very well. I tend to see the same old overview again and again. I was hoping that someone who has had an ET case might know.

[RachelMD]

Yes Rachel,

 

I have talked to the ACAS counsellor who did not seem to believe in the ACAS guidelines. She reminded me of the Australian vicar who told the Bishop that he did not believe in God and got the sack. He went to Australian ET and lost because the Bishop turned up and swore on the bible and was believed.

Not heard that one!

How do you mean the advisor didn't believe in the guidelines?

[RachelMD]

I don't know if there's a difference between a PH and a PHR. In fact, cant say I've heard of the former.

AFAIAA, there's a PHR, which is held at the request of either party or the EJ to determine usually if a case has a reasonable prospect of success; and there's a Case Management Discussion, which is held to just agree between all parties as to how the case is to proceed. Often held on the phone, apparently.

[RachelMD]

Thanks for the replies folks.

 

Yes I am disabled within the meaning of the Equality Act 2010 in that I have had a problem which affects mobility for more than 12 months. I was diagnosed by my own doctor and this was confirmed by Occ Health.

 

My claim was not out of time but they are disputing the continuous course of action. I have someone lined up to assess the claim - reliable person and not a rip off - but I am anxious to get these spurious objections knocked on the head as soon as possible as they are attacking the validity of me clalim. I just want to get past that hurdle and get a hearing date. I cannot tell the difference between a preliminary hearing and a prehearing review. Lawyer will help but I would like to find out for myself, if possible.

What you need to get used to very quickly, is the respondant throwing as much sh*te as they think they can possibly get away with in your direction.

Especially if you actually have a strong case.

[Marieleeza]

Well Rachel she said straight out that the employer did not have to follow the ACAS guidelines and did not have to follow Occ Health recommendations. That was something I already knew, but given that the case involves a really big organisation, it hardly applies. I thought that was a bit rich coming from ACAS and pointed out that raising a grievance will almost certainly cost me my job.

[Ell-enn]

Case management discussion is the first stage - I attended one on Fiday - claimant didn't show up !

[Marieleeza]

Yes Rachel. Thanks to this forum I was sort of prepared so it did not upset me as much as it might have. I am just anxious to get things straight with the ET and be sure that my case will go ahead. I think I have a good chance of countering all of their claims. They made a few howlers and it occurred to me that solicitors might not try too hard to get claims struck out as they would miss out on all that lovely case preparation cash.

[Marieleeza]

Is that where they would try to get bits of the claim struck out. If they turned up, that is. I dread the delaying tactics but it seems that they all take that route.

[Marieleeza]

I think you are right. I could not see any difference between them. I think it would be good for my lawyer to request one and get things sorted, if that can be done.

[RachelMD]

Well Rachel she said straight out that the employer did not have to follow the ACAS guidelines and did not have to follow Occ Health recommendations. That was something I already knew, but given that the case involves a really big organisation, it hardly applies. I thought that was a bit rich coming from ACAS and pointed out that raising a grievance will almost certainly cost me my job.

Well, they're realists if nothing else! Sadly, raising a grievance will often result in the loss of your job if you tread on managements toes. It's not right, but common. You've to be prepared to stick by your principles and take the matter as far as need be.

 

The employer doesn't have to follow the guidelines, they're not statutory. It's your job to convince an ET that the ER's failure to follow the guidelines had a tangible effect on the outcome of their decision.

[Marieleeza]

I am now firmly convinced that the only place where the ACAS guidelines and all the facets of employment laws matter is in the Employment Tribunal. However, filling in an ET1 seems to be the greatest crime a worker can commit. Am I wrong?

[RachelMD]

No.

[Marieleeza]

No.

 

Well the Union told me that there would be no recriminations. That was a wee joke weren't it

[RachelMD]

Did the union (& that includes your co-workers if they're members) stand behind you 100%, or did they all scuttle into the shadows when the ER reacted?

[Marieleeza]

Did the union (& that includes your co-workers if they're members) stand behind you 100%, or did they all scuttle into the shadows when the ER reacted?

I did not expect co-worker support and did not seek to involve anyone else. The comrades were selling me out but I twigged and managed to avoid a total mauling. Thank God for the ET even if it is really only a Mirage on the horizon, it scares the old ER like a mythical monster.

[nutter192]

I have looked all over Honeybee but they really don't differentiate between the preliminary hearing and pre-hearing review very well. I tend to see the same old overview again and again. I was hoping that someone who has had an ET case might know.

 

In the book that I obtained on tribunals, it describes four different types of hearings

 

- case management discussions

- pre-hearing reviews

- full merit hearings (often split between 'liability and remedy'

and - review hearings

 

Case management discussions are held to discuss procedural and organisational aspects of the case.

 

Pre hearing interviews (PHRs) are hearings on a preliminary point. Preliminary points are issues that are vital to the case, but can be dealt with in isolation.

 

Full merits hearings deal with the main - or final - legal of factual issues that will determine the case.

 

Also, if a case contains preliminary issues a PHR is likely to be listed as a matter of course. Preliminary issues likely to result in a PHR include:

 

- was the claim made in time?

- was the claimant an employee?

- was the claimant disabled?

- did the claimant comply with an applicable grievance procudure?

 

The reasons for a PHR is practical. it is often more efficient to deal with preliminary matters seperately. It simplifies hearings by reducing the number of issues each has to deal with.

 

Also, it details how a PHR can be made either by the judge or the respondant requests one however there is nothing to stop a claimant applying for a PHR themselves.

 

So it seems that the Pre-hearing interview will be held to discuss the preliminary matter as to whether you are considered disabled or not. This is what the judge is trying to determine and the result of this would be that either the claim continues if your disability is established or your claim may be rejected due to the underlying complaint not being sufficient to bring proceedings against your employer.

 

I hope this has helped.

[honeybee13]

Excellent post, nutter. I have added to your rep points here.

 

My best, HB

[nutter192]

Cheers it the book that should get the rep points. but thank you anyway.

 

[honeybee13]

Cheers it the book that should get the rep points. but thank you anyway.

 

 

Who bought the book though?

 

My best, HB