Rail Fare Evasion

[lucidlynx]

Let me begin by saying what an idiot I have been.

 

I was traveling on the train from A to C. I got on the train and requested the conductor for a ticket. His machine was not working and asked me to buy a ticket once I get off. I got off at my station and went to the counter to buy a ticket. In what can be described as a momentarily lapse of thinking, I said I got on at station B. Since station B is manned at all time, I could not have got on to the train and hence I was caught. The person at the ticket counter took a copy of my university ID card and I scribbled my address on a piece of paper. There was no RPO or any other authority involved and no cautions read out to me. All the officer at the ticket counter said was that I will be prosecuted. I am scared that this might lead to a criminal conviction and affect my future.

 

I will not challenge any fine, but can a prosecution be brought about in this manner? Any help on this will be much appreciated.

[rebel11]

Hi luc

 

Welcome to CAG

 

The guys will advise as soon as they are available. Best not to panic.

[Stigy]

Let me begin by saying what an idiot I have been.

 

I was traveling on the train from A to C. I got on the train and requested the conductor for a ticket. His machine was not working and asked me to buy a ticket once I get off. I got off at my station and went to the counter to buy a ticket. In what can be described as a momentarily lapse of thinking, I said I got on at station B. Since station B is manned at all time, I could not have got on to the train and hence I was caught. The person at the ticket counter took a copy of my university ID card and I scribbled my address on a piece of paper. There was no RPO or any other authority involved and no cautions read out to me. All the officer at the ticket counter said was that I will be prosecuted. I am scared that this might lead to a criminal conviction and affect my future.

 

I will not challenge any fine, but can a prosecution be brought about in this manner? Any help on this will be much appreciated.

Ultimately yes, a Prosecution can be made in this manner. There's no obligation to caution, and there's not even the need for a Revenue guy to do the questiong, as any staff can report their findings on a witness statement. Realistically though, only revenue or other enforcement staff report offenders as they are trained to do so. Chances are that it was an RPO in the excess booth, just not an Inspector, thus not trained to interview under caution. He should have taken a few notes etc, but other than that there's no need to caution, as this just goes to strengthen a case as the offender would be questioned thoroughly.

 

The only thing you can do at this stage is wait. The company will write to you outlining what they intend to do, and what charge they intend to prosecute under. If they intend to prosecute, it's probably worth your while offering to pay all reasonable admin costs in order to stay out of court, outlining that it was your first offence (assuming it was!) and that you have learned your lesson. They don't have to accept, and some TOCs are more willing to do so than others.

[lucidlynx]

Many thanks Stigy. Yes this was my first incident. Like I mentioned I am willing to pay the fine. Its the sleepless nights that are a problem.

[SRPO]

Although you can be prosecuted, its very unusual for non PACE trained staff reports to be used in court & therefore you are more likely to get a penalty through the post.

[honeybee13]

Hello there and welcome to CAG.

 

There are loads of cases similar to yours on the forum - we see them week in, week out. Have a look around and you'll get an idea of what to expect and how you can respond to the letter when it comes. At this stage, no-one can tell you what the train people will say; you need to wait for the letter.

 

It's a shame about the sleepless nights when you'd like to put the clock back, I know. You probably need to just wait and once this is sorted, which it will be and you will come through it a bit older and wiser, you can resolve to be a model traveller.

 

The guys will help you once you tell us what's in the letter. Don't include any personal details when you post it up.

 

My best, HB

[lucidlynx]

Thanks HB and SRPO. You have been real comforting. I will put up the letter as soon as I get it in the post.

 

I have read older posts by wriggler and old-CodJA and have modified his template to reply back..but before I do so I will post it here for all your advises.

 

Thank you once again.

[Stigy]

Although you can be prosecuted, its very unusual for non PACE trained staff reports to be used in court & therefore you are more likely to get a penalty through the post.

I've seen countless non Q&A reports brought before the courts. More so these days when companies seem to be 'doing away with' traditional Inspectors, and heading towards assistants, who seem less well trained from experience. I have noticed though, that without a Q&A taking place it's nye on impossible to secure a 5.3 RRA offence due to the lack of questioning, and usually settle for byelaws.

[Old-CodJA]

Yes, Stigy is right, although not totally impossible, it would be difficult to prove intent from most basic travel irregularity reports (TIR) submitted by non-PACE trained staff, however successful prosecution of strict liability matters are relatively straightforward.

 

In the OPs case I can think of a way that the more serious offence could be charged, BUT suggest it is much more likely that LucidLynx will get an opportunity to pay the fare and administration costs.

 

Wait for the letter and see what the TOC asks you to do.

[lucidlynx]

Many thanks Old-codJA. But dont you think the intent would be quite clear when I send an honest reply to the TOC to settle this out of court. They might not accept my apology and use the letter for prosecution on the basis of what I have written in my reply.

[Old-CodJA]

Many thanks Old-codJA. But dont you think the intent would be quite clear when I send an honest reply to the TOC to settle this out of court. They might not accept my apology and use the letter for prosecution on the basis of what I have written in my reply.

 

No, whatever you write about intent now isn't going to alter what you did at the time of travel and that is the time on which your actions would be judged.

 

The traveller may well set out intending to pay a fare, but may change that as an opportunity to travel without paying arises. Intention not to pay a fare may become evident at any time during a journey though and the fare is due at the time of travel and not later. It is what happened then that matters.

 

It is up to the TOC whether they decide to proceed with an allegation or whether they decide to accept an administrative settlement. The decision is entirely in their hands.

 

My experience suggests that an opportunity to settle might be given.

Edited May 18, 2011 by Old-CodJA

[lucidlynx]

I should have worded my last post to explain slightly better.

 

What I meant was that since there was no Q&A between me and the ticket assistant, I will assume the ticket assistant will put what I told him in his report. Supposing that they write to me asking me for my side of the story and I reply by detailing exactly what had happened. Wont they say right, this guy has admitted fare evasion, lets go right ahead and prosecute him. So wont my reply admitting my error be used as evidence in court for my intent of fare evasion ?

[Wriggler7]

I am assuming that the conversation was at the destination was something like 'Can I pay my fare?', 'Yes, where have you come from?' 'B', 'Really, that's odd, cant't get on there without a ticket. Where did you really get on?' 'A'.

 

The evidence comes from 'the witness', that is the chap in the ticket window.

 

There is enough evidence already to prove the 'intent to avoid' offence, but the 'company' will not be keen to expose an 'ordinary clerk' or perhaps a 'non pace trained' ticket checker to the fun and games of a court action, for many reasons.

 

An apology, a statement that you will 'never do it again' and an offer to pay reasonable costs should move this along. A 'full confession' in your letter is probably not needed, and I would suggest that you carefully admit everything without admitting 'guilt'. Admit stupidity, momentary opportunism, absent mindedness. Your letter does need to be truthful.

 

Your letter would not normally be used as evidence.

 

Codja seems to be indicating a 'don't worry' position, I feel that he is right.

[lucidlynx]

Thank you all for your advise. I have settled this matter by paying the £20 pound penalty. Since I had a ticket and the price was the same from A and B, they just saw it an irregularity instead of fare evasion. I thought for once they were more sensible than I was.

[honeybee13]

Hello there and thank you for letting us know. I'm pleased you got a result and can move on from this now, well done.

 

My best, HB