HFO Claimform - old M&S Store card **DISCONTINUED**

[comedycircus]

This looks like an easy one !!

[comedycircus]

Can you post up M&S NOA suitably redacted of all personal details ?

[MAGDA]

Hi all, many thanks for the replies.

 

 

I haven't had a reply to the SAR yet, only sent off a couple of days ago, so still waiting on that.

 

 

The exact date on the NoA was 30/7/2008.

 

 

I am going to defend it, definitely, haven't acknowledged service yet as only just received the claim,

so still have plenty of time.

 

 

Will get the docs scanned in and posted up as soon as possible so that you can have a look.

 

 

They have provided the typical m&s application form form mid 1990's plust t&cs,

which they claim make up the agreement.

 

 

Didn't even know that HFO had purchased the debt at the time, nothing from them until very recenlty

when they suddenly started chasing the account out of blue.

 

Thanks again all of you for looking in. Will get the stuff posted up.

 

Magda

[MAGDA]

Will post up the NoA as well!

 

Magda

[comedycircus]

So a 7 day gap without ICO Registration.

 

 

 

Hi, I have been getting quite a few letter recently from HFO regarding an old M&S Account - a store card. The card was taken out in the mid to late 1990's, so quite a while ago. The account has apparently been assigned to HFO by M&S.

 

I requested a copy of the credit agreement and later received a copy of an application form. Nothing else. I wrote back and said that this did not comply with section 78 (no terms and conditions etc) and if they were unable to respond in a satisfactory manner, to inform me in writing. No reply whatsoever, but continued to receive their threats. I have now received a letter from Turnbull Rutherford giving me 21 days to respond or a court claim will be issued. That doesn't bother me, it's the usual rubbish these companies come out with and if they do issue a claim, I'll defend it. The thing is they have attached a DN and also a notice of assignment headed "M&S Money." The NOA states: "We have assigned your account to HFO capital ltd a company incorporated under the law of Ireland with a registered office at ............ Dublin 2, Ireland. Would this assignment be valid under UK law? The account was apparently assigned in 2008, but they are only now starting to pursue it.

 

I'm going to do a SAR to M&S because I haven't made any payments to HFO and for all I know, it may be statute barred.

 

Many thanks,

 

Magda

[broken arrow]

Magda you need to get M & S to confirm in writing it was sold to Roxburghe.Can you post or type up the POC.

[MAGDA]

The POC are stated on the claim form: The claim is for monies owed to the claimant by the defendant pursuant to an interest bearing credit agreement regulated by CCA 1974. The claimant was assigned the defendants debt and all right and obligations attached thereto by m&S Fin. services plc.

 

The defendant has been provded notice of assignment previously (hmmm.. don't think so) The claimant claims contractual interest pursuant to the t&cs of the crdit agreement at the rate of 17% per annum from the date of assigment to the date of judgement. The claimant is also entitled to claim post judgement contractual interest on the same terms. Full particulars to follow in accordance with the CPR practice Direction 7c.

 

The full particulars sent separately state more or less as above, stating that the Claimant, HFO Capital ltd purchased the Defendant's account all all rights etc... It also states tht I was given written notice by the original lender of the assignment, so be interesting to see what shows up in the SAR to m&s, because I certainly didn't get anything at the time. It then finishes with the statement about the interest again at 17%.

[broken arrow]

Have you asked M & S of the last payment date?

[broken arrow]

It would also be worth getting M & S to confirm in writing they did not issue the notice of assignment.

[MAGDA]

Hi Broken Arrow, I did finally get a statement of account, just a few figures, supposedly on m&S headed paper, stating the balance when it was assigned etc, it showed a token payment of £1 was last made end of 2007, so unfortunately, doesn't appear to be statute barred. Will see if I can get M&S to confirm they didn't send the NoA (in writing) - might be worth writing to them once I have the SAR and see what happens.

 

Many thanks,

 

Magda

[ims21]

Hi

 

Did you actually make that £1 payment?.....are you sure its not a phantom?

 

ims

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Good point!!

[coledog]

Could be a CCA request? possibly??

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

A further good point!!!!

[coledog]

Think a phone call to M&S is in order. chase the SAR and get as much info as possible

[MAGDA]

Evening all.

 

 

Did make a CCA request originally, I think, to M&S around that time,

but it also shows payments of £1 for the months leading up to that,

so towards the end of 2007/start of 2008.

 

 

then i did the CCA request and didn't get anything back, so stopped payments at that point.

 

 

M&S said that I made payments to a DCA they had instructed to collect on their behalf,

but not sure now who that was, or for how long I made the payments.

 

 

I had so many to deal with around that time and was constantly bombarded with letters from one DCA or another.

 

SAR went off to M&S yesterday, so will give them a while to respond (I know officially they have 40 days) and chase it up then.

 

Thanks for all your help so far. Will get the agreement etc posted up as well for you to take a look at.

 

Magda

Edited October 13, 2011 by cerberusalert

[coledog]

Good - need to see all the docs and feel free to ack this, do not worry.

[DonkeyB]

Need to do CPR to HFO as well. Don’t forget that!

[MAGDA]

No, thanks Donkey, will get that sent off as well.

 

Magda

[MAGDA]

Just wondering, don't suppose anyone knows what the interest rate for M&s chargecards was around 1995 do they?

[Andyorch]

The POC are stated on the claim form: The claim is for monies owed to the claimant by the defendant pursuant to an interest bearing credit agreement regulated by CCA 1974. The claimant was assigned the defendants debt and all right and obligations attached thereto by m&S Fin. services plc.

 

The defendant has been provided notice of assignment previously (hmmm.. don't think so) The claimant claims contractual interest pursuant to the t&cs of the credit agreement at the rate of 17% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of judgment. The claimant is also entitled to claim post judgment contractual interest on the same terms. Full particulars to follow in accordance with the CPR practice Direction 7c.

 

The full particulars sent separately state more or less as above, stating that the Claimant, HFO Capital ltd purchased the Defendant's account all all rights etc... It also states tht I was given written notice by the original lender of the assignment, so be interesting to see what shows up in the SAR to m&s, because I certainly didn't get anything at the time. It then finishes with the statement about the interest again at 17%.

 

Looks very suspect that Magda, cant believe anyone would agree to them terms and conditions in their right mind.Perhaps in the HFO dreamworld T&Cs but not M&Ss.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[MAGDA]

Thanks Andy, yes, seems a bit odd that's for sure. Amazing where they get their figures from as well, the debt has leapt from around £4,000 to nearly £8,000 with no statements from HFO in the interim whatsoever.

 

Magda

[Andyorch]

Hi Magda

 

The advantage to a County Court Judgment for Consumer Credit Act claims is that interest and statutory interest is not charged unless instalment payments are missed.

Problems arise where a creditor applies to court for contractual interest to be added to the judgment debt. The conditions, amount and application of contractual interest are contained in the original finance agreement signed by the client and the creditor when the loan agreement was signed. This must be requested in the particulars of claim and the creditor has to apply for a judgment called Interlocutory Judgment.

Although post Judgement creditors have the right to purse interest, it must be noted that such claim for interest must be independently pursued in the court via fresh proceedings and that: ‘The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) position is, the contractual interest after judgement condition can be activated but that it is an unfair contract term.

 

To explain if a creditor sues you in the County Court on an ordinary credit agreement under the Consumer Credit Act you may be sued for the full balance payable under the agreement. This would include the balance owed and all the interest payable under the agreement. Once you have paid the full amount owing on the County Court Judgment then that is normally the end of the matter and no further interest is payable.

 

Alternatively they may get a County Court Judgment that includes court fees and interest up to the date of judgment. Once you have paid the full amount owing on the actual judgment as long as there is no clause in the original agreement that allows the creditor to claim interest after the County Court Judgment then that is the end of the matter and no further interest is payable.

 

However and this the confusing part some credit agreements allow a creditor to add contractual interest on to the amount of the County Court Judgment. This has been confirmed as legally binding following a number of Court of Appeal cases one of which was taken by the Office of Fair Trading against First National Bank. This means that while you are paying the County Court Judgment if the relevant clause exists in the agreement you signed the contractual interest may be charged on the amount that you still owe on the County Court Judgment. This may not be made clear to you by the creditor at the time. If this is the case then when you have paid the original balance owed on the judgment you will find that you have an extra amount that you still owe the creditor even though the judgment has been paid in full. To force you to pay this the creditor would have to sue you again.

 

There are of course some further tricky issues of law involved some of which remain unanswered but in some cases it is quite possible for interest to be charged on an outstanding county court judgment and that once a person had repaid that judgment it is possible for a further debt to exist.

 

Any defence to this claim should pay particular attention to the above and inclusion within the PoC by the Claimant.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[MAGDA]

Many thanks for the info Andy, that's really useful to know. Going to acknowledge the claim shortly and will post up the agreement etc as mentioned before.

 

Nice to see you are still about on the forum, due to personal problems, haven't been around for a while, so nice to see some familiar 'faces' around.

 

Magda

[coledog]

Magda Have a look at 'Gloryhunters' thread particularly the POC in Post 127 (see if it is similar to yours at all) and the defence in Post 208. HFO did not respond to the defence on this one so it was 'stayed'. No guarantees, as they have tried to proceed in similar cases for some reason.