URGENT PLease Help! Harrow PCN appeal deadline tomorrow!

[Jamberson]

You can't just decide to go to the adjudicator - it needs to follow a sequence through the appeals system.

 

If you wrote to them on May 2nd, and they replied on May 4th, then regardless of the contents of their letter, they have responded. The ball is back in your court. Are you saying, after they told you they wouldn't enter into correspondence, that you were waiting for a second letter?

 

I think you've made an error on this one but you'll have to see what they come back with.

 

It's better to ask here for advice before sending correspondence in, if you're not following the normal appeals route.

[dbcc33]

Am a little disappointed in your reply jamberson....seeing as it was you who initially advised me to do nothing and wait for their next steps given that you thought their refusal to consider my representation after they asked me for it was "catastrophic"..see post 15 by yourself back in may.

 

am wondering if you didnt quite read the whole thread??

 

also.....a couple of months ago, i posted back on here to ask for advice on what i should do given i still hadnt heard anything from harrow, and nero asked me a question, but no-one else really replied....

 

so i figured the case was on hold (particulalry given that the outstanding charge back then was still the reduced rate)....obviosuly i was wrong and they were escalating it in the interim without my knowledge...

 

also am a little lost as to what i was supposed to have done if the council tells me they wont enter into any further correspondence with me..??!

 

any advise now.....earlier on i was in a situation where i had made a formal appeal and they has responded in error ( or so i thought).....and now that i didnt respond back....you think this is my error??

 

am a little confused...

[Jamberson]

am wondering if you didnt quite read the whole thread??

 

You're right - I didn't read back over it all. I've just gone back and read it, and I understand better now.

 

You need to establish where this is at. It looks like they have fouled up - can you let us know what they say in response to your latest email.

 

There are ways forward, but we need to see how they react to your email.

[dbcc33]

OK thanks....will do.

 

I understand perhaps i shouldnt have mentioned parking adjudicator, but i was very miffed. Also i had assumed because they had escalated charges without my knowledge, this was natural next step. but i guess if they've already gone to charge certificate (judging by £150 charge on their website)....i think the next stage is order of recovery then i need to fill in te7 and te9 AGAIN?!

 

anyway..yes let me see how they respond. you are right though now about it not being normal appeals process because everything has got so mucked up now....also bear in mind this is now the second time this whole thing is happening as first time the first i knew about it was the car clamping.

 

it does AMAZE me how harrow can send letters that disappear into the ether.....

.....one question though...should i phone harrow and try and find out what they have and havent sent...or just wait for reply to online representation?

 

thanks.....

[Jamberson]

Wait for the reply - everything in writing.

 

If you tried to make reps and they refused to consider them, then they really ought to bail out now and cancel it. If not, yes you'll have to do another TE7 which is a pain, but yet more ammo for you - they are looking in disarray.

 

It was the threat of adjudication which jumped out at me before. It's not an option at the moment - more's the pity. In the long run you look bound to win, so they should back down, but we'll see...

[dbcc33]

Still no reply to latest correspondence....will continue waiting........

 

...just 1 question.how do i now Harrow wont clamp my car out of the blue again???!!! ...if they contiue to escalate things without my knowledge.....this is the one thing that makes me nervous about sitting back and waiting.....

[Jamberson]

You should be receiving documentation. Charge Certificate and Order for Recovery should be sent to you before anything happens. I assume there's no reason why these wouldn't be expected to arrive?

[dbcc33]

Still nothing from Harrow - but on their website still says £157 outstanding...

 

 

Should I still sit and wait for a reply???!

 

It has now been over 2 years since original alleged contravention - this is getting a bit silly now isnt it?

 

can they still enforce it after so much time?

 

thanks,

[Jamberson]

If it were me, I would do nothing. It seems to be on permanent hold on their systems.

 

They can (try to) enforce after so long, but if they did you would be able to defend it, I'm certain. So just leave it, and the chances are you'll never hear from them again. If you do, post here.

[dbcc33]

thanks Jamberson,

 

as long as they dont clamp my car out of the blue again if they are escalating it without my knowledge!

 

but yes i think i agree with you.. .it does look like it is just on hold (as the other one seems to be held at £50).

 

so will just wait and see and post back if i hear any more.

 

 

thanks for ur help

[dbcc33]

I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS!!!!!

 

Nothing from the council since i lasted posted on here and now out of the blue my car is clamped!!!!!!!

 

I know i need to file an oot stat dec again but cannot believe this is happening again.

 

So despite their administrative cock-up, they have continued to escalate this PCN without my knowledge....

 

cannot believe it.....so I have to suffer my car being clamped again--this is just not fair....!!

 

Any advice people?? please read through previous email trail as this is a complicated case

 

many many thanks in advcance...

[dbcc33]

anyone there ? nero12? jamberson??

 

have filed the forms now and it is on hold......but car still clamped -- this process completely sucks!! why cant they remove the clamp whilst making decision -- the woman at the harrow parking even said that it seemed like an procedural error and even told me which box to tick on witness statement as non of them applied to me, and still i ahve to endure my car being clamped while they make a decision!!

 

this is CRAP!! and second time over same PCN!! unbelievable.

[ims21]

Tread moved to correct forum

[dbcc33]

Hmm ...why is no-one responding to this thread??!

[crem]

It's possible the "parking gurus" are not feeling too confident on this thread now as it really has gone beyond a simple PCN and involves bailiffs who are a whole other ballgame. It might be worth posting a thread in teh bailiffs section and getting some expert like tomtummy to review where you are at with this one.

[green_and_mean]

Hmm ...why is no-one responding to this thread??!

 

Because most stopped giving advice after the board was hijacked by NMAG as a tool for getting people to pay for advice.

[dbcc33]

fair point -- can whoever moved the thread here please move it to the bailiff section please?

thanks in advance

[dbcc33]

G & M -- how are NMAG using this to get people to pay for advice?

the forum is still free.......isn't it?......are jamberson and nero not around any more then?

[citizenB]

Because most stopped giving advice after the board was hijacked by NMAG as a tool for getting people to pay for advice.

 

G & M -- how are NMAG using this to get people to pay for advice?

the forum is still free.......isn't it?......are jamberson and nero not around any more then?

 

Yes, CAG is free and the comment made by G&M is definitely incorrect.

[maroondevo52]

.are jamberson and nero not around any more then?

 

nero's not been on since june last year but jamberson was on a few days ago, I'll send them a pm see if they will look in.

[Jamberson]

Honestly, the mind boggles at how stupid this council are.

 

Yes, you will need to file an Out of Time again, on the same grounds as before. Tell both the council and the bailiff that you are doing this.

 

Meantime, formal complaint to the council. Also the local government ombudsman outlining the history of this case and asserting that the Council is acting offensively by attempting to allow enforcement of a 'debt' it could not hope to defend at adjudication (at the tax payers' expense). If it ever did get to adjudication, make sure you apply for costs against the council who are acting highly unreasonably.

 

And meantime again, try and speak to a senior manager in the council's parking department and plead for some common sense!

 

Keep posting on here. I am rarely on the board these days, but you can always send me a pm if you want my advice and I'm not about.

[dbcc33]

thanks for replying jamberson - was wondering where you'd gone

 

Stupid is an understatement when describing Harrow council

 

have already done all the stat dec stuff (i knew exactly what to do this time having been through it all before!).

 

trying to speak to anyone more senior than the telephone jockey at Harrow is virtually impossible -- what i did find out is that they did send some letters to an old address, but by their own records, there failed to send out an official rejection to my formal representation --so this is definitely a procedural impropriety and will be very easy for me to prove (this is in addition to the million other initial reasons inc the fact that it is now 3 years since the alleged contravention!!).

 

but you make a good point re formal complaint -- i should probably get round to doing this -- am pretty sure i did this last time, but they just answered saying that they followed correct procedures.

Edited June 30, 2013 by citizenB

[dbcc33]

also like you said - where on earth is their common sense?? despite not having to....i did send them that message via their online form asking what was going on --and if they had been sending letters it would have been very clear to them that i had not been receiving them. instead of just ignoring me they should have been diligent enough to make contact at that stage. but no of course they will just ignore sensible contact and continue to use their automatically generated letter writing machine!!

 

what i dont get is why on earth they dont just send all their enforcement letters by email and use a 'read receipt' to check that that they have been received?!

[Jamberson]

I think complaints are the best way to get them to stop.

 

You really must file a stat dec as well, but I would think when the complaint is investigated they will pull the case. It's disgraceful that they are pursuing this.

 

Have you contacted your local councillor? They do often follow up cases like this, and of course the council staff are somewhat reluctant to contradict a councillor. Well worth a try.

 

In a nutshell, "kick up a stink".

 

Did the clamping cost you, eg lost work?

[green_and_mean]

Yes, CAG is free and the comment made by G&M is definitely incorrect.

 

 

No its not, CAG is free to access but NMAG use it as a tool to drum up trade why else would a commercial organisation want links on it if it didn't?? To quote Abraham Lincoln, "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time."