Unwanted PPI on 4 Lloyds loans,

[BELLA 47]

Hello everyone,

 

This is my first post concerning reclaiming for missold PPI on behalf of my husband(he always leaves this kind of thing to me as I have been successful in the past in battles for justice, usually concerning money).He became self employed (sole trader) in 1997 and between 2001 an 2004 took out 4 loans, three business and 1 personal, all with PPI he didn't want.He was told by the Business Manager that he couldn't have the loans unless he took out the insurance and this is the main reason that I want to claim the money back because I remember being very cross that she could blackmail him like that.Now, it's widely known that she was misselling but it's only his word against hers.Also, although he was self employed, the policies seem to be worded as if they apply to self employed people with phrases like 'in employment in your business', so I don't think we can claim misselling on my husband being self employed.I have read this forum quite widely and most successful people seem to have a watertight case for misselling like a pre-existing medical condition or not being employed at all. I don't want to begin this battle unless I feel I can win it.My husband was diagnosed with asthma soon after he started his business.Any thoughts or comments from anyone would be welcome.

[firstship]

Bella47 Hi. Dont quite get your logic,PPI is mis-sold if you are self employed and can be reclaimed, it is quite clear if you are self employed you are not able to take out PPI,if it formed part of the contract to obtain the loan then this is also mis_selling.

 

Lloyds not the easiest to deal with but your mis-sold PPI is without doubt MIS-SOLD

 

good luck...FS

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?135060-Mis-sold-PPI-Want-your-money-back-use-these-links-to-help

 

You will find lots of advice in the link above to help you reclaim mis sold PPI

[BELLA 47]

Hello again!

Thanks firstship and citizenb for your comments. I have gone through everything thoroughly and realise that Lloyds sold my husband PPI which would be paid in the case of inability to work because of illness,so the policies were valid as far as him being self employed was concerned.

However,he never wanted or needed any of them and was told he had to have them or he wouldn't get the loans, so they were still missold.I spent a long time working out exactly how much to claim back, as my husband took out three business loans and one personal loan with Lloyds bank over a period of about five years.He was also paying business overdraft insurance which he didn't want. I worked out how much was owing on each loan by adding up all the premiums and adding 8% (simple) from the dates the payments were made.I then went back over the statements and worked out how much interest the bank had charged on the payments when they increased an overdraft. I then put all that on a spreadsheet and added 8%(simple).So by now I had seven spreadsheets as follows:-

 

1) Interest on overdraft interest for PPI payments on Business Account no. xxxxxxx +8%

2) Interest on overdraft interest for PPI payments on Personal Account no. yyyyyyy + 8%

3) Overdraft PPI payments on Business Account no.xxxxxxx + 8%

4) Loan Account no. zzzzzzz PPI payments on Personal Account no. yyyyyyy + 8%

5) Loan Account no. aaaaaaa PPI payments on Business Account no.xxxxxxx + 8%

6) Loan Account no. bbbbbbb PPI payments on Business Account no.xxxxxxx + 8%

7) Loan Account no. ccccccc PPI payments on Business Account +no.xxxxxxx + 8%

 

A refund of all these payments plus 8% interest would put my husband's financial affairs back to where they were before any of the PPI's were taken out.I wrote to Lloyds stating my husband's case and explained that I believed the policies to have been missold because he never wanted or needed them. I named the Business Manager as the person who had missold all the policies.My total claim came to £15,400.

After an initial letter of acknowledgement in August saying that I would hear within sixteen weeks, my husband recently received a letter from Lloyds with their decision. They have upheld my complaint for two of the business loans, saying that the third loan did not have a PPI (it did).They ignored the claim for the PPI on the personal loan, the overdraft interest for PPI on both business and personal loans and the PPI payments on the business overdraft.They offered a refund of premiums and debit interest plus 8% on two of the business loans and their figures bear no resemblance to the actual ones. The total offered was £1,396.55.

What to do now? Ombudsman? Is it worth writing back to this 'customer care' person? Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

[citizenB]

Will try and find some help for you.

[ims21]

Hi

 

Responding to CitizenB's SOS.

 

Bit busy at the mo but will get back to you later this evening.

 

Regards

 

ims

[ims21]

Hi

 

I think you will find it tricky to get back the interest on the O/D which was attributable to the PPI payments. Although I see your logic I think you may have to sue to get this back.

 

With regard to the loans, were they all "stand alone" loans or were any of them refinanced into another one?

 

When you say that you went to the loans and added up the PPI premiums, can you explain a bit more? If you have a read of No.1 in my signature, did you do it in accordance with the method described in that article?

 

ims

[BELLA 47]

Hello ims21,

In answer to your questions, yes I worked all the payments out as you describe in your article.With each separate loan, I worked out how much the percentage of PPI there was by dividing the PPI amount by the total loan and multiplying by 100.I multiplied this by the monthly premium to get the monthly PPI amount.I entered these PPI payments on a spreadsheet filling in the date they were paid. I entered 8% in the interest column and the spreadsheet calculated the interest automatically.

All the loans including all the PPI amounts were paid in full and they were all paid off early. I need to study the bank statements again carefully to be certain, but at least two of the loans refinanced a previous one and the PPI outstanding was added the the next loan which had a new PPI premium. When this happened, I entered the balance of the PPI on my spreadsheet to be added to the amount claimed. I hope this is not tooo confusing.

 

Just as an aside, Lloyds also flogged my husband a hospital income policy and an accident policy, both of which were automatically increased annually. On top of that they introduced a 'Business Focus' fee of £10 per month.It was supposed to allow certain benefits which were never established and all this on top of substantial service charges. Add to that penalties (which I got back thank goodness) and all this unecessary PPI, Lloyds certainly ripped my husband off over the years.

Sorry to rant, thanks for your willingness to help

[ims21]

Hello ims21,

In answer to your questions, yes I worked all the payments out as you describe in your article.With each separate loan, I worked out how much the percentage of PPI there was by dividing the PPI amount by the total loan and multiplying by 100. Correct I multiplied this by the monthly premium Do you mean monthly repayment? If so...correct to get the monthly PPI amount.I entered these PPI payments on a spreadsheet filling in the date they were paid. I entered 8% in the interest column and the spreadsheet calculated the interest automatically. If you used the correct spreadsheet then you should not have needed to change the interest rate. What was the name of the spreadsheet you used?

All the loans including all the PPI amounts were paid in full and they were all paid off early. I need to study the bank statements again carefully to be certain, but at least two of the loans refinanced a previous one and the PPI outstanding was added the the next loan which had a new PPI premium. When this happened, I entered the balance of the PPI on my spreadsheet to be added to the amount claimed. I hope this is not tooo confusing. Possibly incorrect. When loan 2 refinanced loan 1, a percentage of loan 2 repayments are paying off loan 1 ppi....you don't enter the full amount of the balance of loan 1 PPI. The nly thing that would change this is IF a PPI rebate was received when loan 1 was refinanced.

Just as an aside, Lloyds also flogged my husband a hospital income policy and an accident policy, both of which were automatically increased annually. On top of that they introduced a 'Business Focus' fee of £10 per month.It was supposed to allow certain benefits which were never established and all this on top of substantial service charges. Add to that penalties (which I got back thank goodness) and all this unecessary PPI, Lloyds certainly ripped my husband off over the years.

Sorry to rant, thanks for your willingness to help

 

 

Reclaiming insurance is not restricted to PPI....if any insurance policy was mis-sold it can be claimed back.

 

ims

[BELLA 47]

Thanks for your reply.Just to answer your questions.1) Yes I mean monthly repayment 2) The spreadsheet I used was in the PPI stickies from cagger 'BOG' and I think the 8% was already entered so I didn't actually enter it.

What you said about loan 2 refinancing loan 1 has made me realise that I have made some mistakes in my calculations as I didn't allow for the fact that if a loan is either repaid early or the balance is refinanced, then that balance owing is less than if the loan had gone to full term.

I noticed in your single premium PPI Q&A that there is a loan progression spreadsheet which I will try to use to recalculate all my figures.I may be gone some time!

Thanks

[BELLA 47]

OK just to keep this thread current, I am now ploughing through the PPI entries again making alterations where I have entered wrong amounts and finding ims21's loan progression spreadsheet very useful. I'm thinking of going directly to the small claims court as the Ombudsman won't award me overdraft interest on the PPI payments.Or I could go to the Ombudsman for the PPI payments plus 8% and then go to the small claims court for the overdraft interest. In any case, I'll keep you all posted.

[BELLA 47]

Could somebody help me please? If a loan is repaid early,how is the settlememt figure calculated? I know ims21's loan progression spreadsheet can show how much is still owing on a loan after a certain time but that amount isn't always the settlement figure is it? I thought that the lender was obliged to recalculate the amount owing according to the time the loan had been owing. One of the loans involved in my PPI claim was for 60 months, but was paid off in full after only ten.When I looked at the spreadsheet, the interest amounted to £1,316 and the capital sum paid off to £1713! After the tenth payment on January 18th,the amount owing was £11,786.43. I then didn't pay anything until I paid off the loan on April 24th.The settlement figure was £11,030.32. Do you think Lloyds recalculated my loan and gave me a settlement figure which included a rebate on all that interest? On the statement there is no mention of any rebate so I don't know how they calculated it, so don't know if it's right. This loan is involved in my PPI claim because it refinanced a previous loan with PPI and I am calculating the amount owed.

[ims21]

Hi

 

It may have been a settlement figure which included a rebate for the ppi!

 

The spreadsheet is usually not far out IF payments have been made on time and in the correct amount. If the loan has run "normally", the bank's can charge a bit extra for early settlement but the spreadie is normally there or thereabouts. T&Cs would help you with that aspect.

 

When you refinanced, did you not get a document showing how the settlement figure was broken down? If not....ask for it.

 

Regards

 

ims

[BELLA 47]

Thanks ims21, I'll ask for it.At the time of paying off the loan,I remortgaged and paid off two other loans and a huge overdraft as well . I'll ask for the details of all three loans.They definitely didn't send them at the time.

[BELLA 47]

Hi, Just thought I'd update everyone. SAR request to Lloyds sent registered post on 8th December, asking for information as to how the loan settlement figures were arrived at, as per ims21's suggestion, £10 postal order included. I have heard nothing to date.I think I will sue Lloyds for everything, making separate claims for some of the PPI's as one is around the £5000 mark.Also, this way I can claim back the interest they took on the overdraft amounts.I just need to familiarise myself with the relevant laws in order to make my case.

I will keep you all posted.

[citizenB]

Is it your intention to sue for the non compliance of the SAR or the refund of the PPI ?

 

A successful non compliance claim in the thread linked below.. HTH..

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?208966-Me-and-Them-SAR-non-compliance-claim.-**SUCCESS**&highlight=Fedupandfightingback

[BELLA 47]

I had thought to sue for each of the PPI's and the overdraft interest they incurred. I thought the non compliance with the SAR would add yet more evidence of bad practice by Lloyds.Thanks for the information though, I may use it in future. I retire in May so will have more time for this.

[BELLA 47]

Hello,

Been retired for a couple of months now. I sent off another claim to LLoyds, similar to the one sent in November 2011, but this time all the tables were absolutely correct. I had been careful to incorporate remaining PPI amounts into refinancing loans when the situation arose, using IMS21's methods of calculating the percentage of interest.I also found some refunds of PPI(all much less than was actually owed) and an occasion when the bank had not only added the arragement fee and PPI premium to the loan, but had debited my account for them both as well, thus paying twice!I made allowances for all this and sent off my claim without referring to my previous claim as i thought it would only complicate matters.

I received the usual acknowledgement letter within a week, then a week later received exactly the same response letter that had been sent before! It was a reprint of the same letter!It just shows they don't read the letters we send as this time I enclosed a copy of the loan agreement with the PPI on it that they said we didn't have.In their response they upheld two of the PPI refund demands and made an offer that was close to the amount I was claiming so I intend to write to them again (even though they say it's their final offer)and say I will accept the offer as payment for the two loans only and will pursue the claim for the other loans and expenses throught the small claims court.

Will keep you posted.

[BELLA 47]

Hello again!

I am happy to report great progress since I last posted. All five loan PPI's have been refunded by Lloyds.They used all the ploys like ignoring some claims completely and ignoring what I said in my letters completely but eventually they did pay up.I just kept writing to them saying the same thing and each time I wrote I enclosed copies of relevant information.Each letter was sent by' signed for' post and I filed copies of everything.

I haven't finished yet as they have consistently ignored the extra overdraft interest the PPI payments generated, so the next step will be to write a letter before action and if they still don't cooperate,sue them in the small claims court.

[landy_alert]

Hello again!

I am happy to report great progress since I last posted. All five loan PPI's have been refunded by Lloyds.They used all the ploys like ignoring some claims completely and ignoring what I said in my letters completely but eventually they did pay up.I just kept writing to them saying the same thing and each time I wrote I enclosed copies of relevant information.Each letter was sent by' signed for' post and I filed copies of everything.

I haven't finished yet as they have consistently ignored the extra overdraft interest the PPI payments generated, so the next step will be to write a letter before action and if they still don't cooperate,sue them in the small claims court.

 

Hi Bella,

 

Pleased to hear you got your PPI refunded ok! I've been in a similar situation regarding the overdraft interest generated by the mis-sold PPI on several LTSB loans, but am a bit ahead of you in that I pursued Lloyds for this, took it to the FOS when they refused to pay ball - although they initially suggested they intended to uohold my complaint - and have recently had a final decision by an ombudsman go in the bank's favour. Just mulling over what steps to take next, so will watch your progress with great interest. Best of luck!

 

Landy x

[BELLA 47]

Hello,

I sent the LBA on 24/11/2012 and it has been completely ignored.I am claiming extra overdraft interest on two accounts,one personal and one business and the total comes to nearly £6,000, which is more than the £5,000 limit for the small claims court. I thought I might have to bring two claims, one for each account, until I found out that the upper limit for small claims is increasing to £15,000 on 1st April 2013. Therefore, I have just written my second LBA to Lloyds TSB, stating that I will begin a claim for the full amount, plus interest, plus my costs on 1st April 2013. unless they refund the money before then.I have sent them copies of spreadsheets dated today, 2/1/2013 and !st April 2013.So now I just wait and see.

[BELLA 47]

Hi,

I am just about to submit a small claims court claim for extra overdraft interest online. The claim form didn't offer me any opportunity to attach my spreadsheets or write much on the POC's. I just wonder whether it would have been better to send a completed form by post. Anyone got any advice? The online application is cheaper by £30, that's why I went that way.

[citizenB]

You can send the fuller particulars by post to the defendant, I think. I will ask for you.

[citizenB]

Yes, I was correct -

 

You can serve a more detailed PoC and any attachments by post, irrespective that you have only issued via MCOL a condensed version

[BELLA 47]

Thanks very much, I'll do that.