lowells chasing old barclays current account debt

[Undercover-Elsa]

No probs..crossed in the post I think

 

It will flummox them as it's not often used for OD's.

At the very least it will give you more time.

 

Elsa x

[sussex1]

Hi

 

sent the letter suggested by Elsa and have now received this along with the retur of the postal order.

 

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/sussex1/dml-2-1.jpg

 

any ideas on what I do now?

 

thanks

[pershing]

I had one of these from DM. I ignored it then the process started all over again.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Sussex,

Yep, obviously just a templated response.

Remember that the excercise here is to buy you time and dissuade them from starting legal action. While it's not impossible to make them give up completely, we will at least hopefully be able to cast doubt on the situation enough for them to ultimately accept a repayment programme agreeable to you, or a low full and final settlement.

They are right to some extent in respect of the CCa Request, therefore we can't use the standard dispute letter.

However, in their termination letter and original threat of legal action they make reference to an agreement. We know that a signed agreement does not exist for overdraft accounts. However, should they wish to take this to Court I believe that they would have to produce an agreement as mentioned in the Particulars of Claim, or failing that produce it if revealed in further questioning under CPR 31.18.

It need not be signed, but they must produce evidence that you were supplied with a copy of the account terms and conditions including interest rate, overdraft limit and schedule of charges, at the outset, plus copies of the T&C's as varied throughout the life of the account.

 

Have you received a Default Notice yet for this account?

What's the current outstanding balance?

 

Also, if you haven't already sent a SAR request to Barclays, I would do so know, as if they don't include your original T&C's and notes in the comms log that you were provided with them I understand they would struggle in court. The link for the SAR template is in my blog, it would need amending for an OD if you need help just shout...

 

Elsa x

Edited January 5, 2011 by Undercover-Elsa

[sussex1]

Hi Elsa, sorry for the delay in comng back to you,

 

I haven't had a default notice for this, that I can recall, just the termination notice in #7.

 

DML have now sent copy statements that they referred to when returning the £1 postal order. The total balance is almost £1100.

 

These statements are from 04 onwards although the account was opened many year before. No salary was paid into the acount for the period of these statements and there are 5 charges referral charges @ £25, 1 @ £30 and 10 @ £22.50 for exceeding overdraft limit of £900. There is also a monthly account charge and interest.

 

DML are now as normal constantly making contact.

 

I'm not sure as to how best proceed and would be grateful for any advice. Should they have sent statements for the history of the entire account? Can I do anything about the charges, account fee ir interest to lower the balance with a view to makin a low full and final offer?

 

thanks in advance

[sussex1]

any views on how to deal with this one?

 

thanks

 

Sussex

[Bazooka Boo]

A very brief appraisal sussex1,

 

Yes they should have the information from the entire acct, but it depends on what you asked them for? A CCA, then no, a SAR then YES!!!

 

If DML are contacting you by phone, pick up, answer, laugh and hang up.

 

Bumped you back up the pile anyhow!!!

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Sussex,

Have you sent off a Subject Access Request to Barclays yet?

If not, this is your next move. Amend the SAR template to suit (A link to it is in my blog linked below) You need to stress that you require copies of all communications, including any correspondence confirming the opening of the account, the terms and conditions at the time of opening, and as varied, statements etc

 

I'll have a think about what to write to DML, and be back later...

 

kind regards

 

Elsa x

[Undercover-Elsa]

Ok here we go..for DML

 

Thankyou for your letter of xxxx.

I am most concerned that you have stated in your response that "overdraft accounts are not covered by the CCA".

It is common knowledge and clearly established in law and Statute that overdrafts ARE most definitely covered by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I feel that your statement ( which is of a templated nature and therefore presumably sent out to others as a standard reply) is grossly misleading and intended to influence a transactional decision,

as defined as an unfair practice in The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (sections 5 / 6).

 

I will therefore be taking my concerns on this matter to the Office of Fair Trading / Trading Standards and would remind you that contravention of relevant sections of CPUTR is a criminal offence.

 

For your reference, in case you continue to maintain that overdrafts are not covered by the CCA, their exemption from Section 74 (1) (b) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 was revoked on 1st February 1990.

To quote Coutts vs Sebasteyn:

"The Determination (which is signed by the Director of Fair Trading) is made under section 74(3) of the Act. I set it out in full:

"1. Under the powers conferred upon me by Sections 74(3) and (3A) and 133 of the Consumer Credit 1974, I, the Director General, being satisfied that it would not be against the public interest to do so, hereby revoke with effect from 1st February 1990 the Determination made by me in respect of Section 74(1)(b) and dated 3 November 1983 and now determine that with effect from 1st February 1990 Section 74(1)(b) shall apply to every debtor-creditor agreement enabling the debtor to overdraw on a current account, under which the creditor is a bank.

 

 

2. This Determination is made subject to the following conditions:-

 

 

(a) that the creditor shall have informed my Office in writing of his general intention to enter into agreements to which the Determination will apply;

(b) that where there is an agreement between a creditor and a debtor for the granting of credit in the form of an advance on a current account, the debtor shall be informed at the time or before the agreement is concluded:

- of the credit limit, if any,

- of the annual rate of interest and the charges applicable from the time the agreement is concluded and the conditions under which these may be amended,

of the procedure for terminating the agreement;

and this information shall be confirmed in writing.

© that where a debtor overdraws his current account with the tacit agreement of the creditor and that account remains overdrawn for more than 3 months, the creditor must inform the debtor in writing not later than 7 days after the end of that 3 month period of the annual rate of interest and charges applicable.

3. In this Determination the terms 'creditor' and 'debtor' shall have the meanings assigned to them respectively by Section 189 of [the CONSUMER CREDIT Act]. The term 'bank' includes the Bank of England and banks within the meaning of the Bankers' Books Evidence Act 1879 as amended."

 

It is therefore clear that in order to enforce a current account overdraft in court, the claimant has to demonstrate that they have adhered to the above stipulations.

In response to your threat of legal action, I have requested proof from you that the required documentation was supplied at the time the account was opened, or if a tacit agreement, within 3 months + 7 days of commencement, which whilst not necessarily a signed agreement should be at the very least a letter detailing the credit limit, APR and applicable charges, amendment conditions, termination procedure etc.

You have failed to comply with my legitimate request and therefore until/unless you do so this account is in dispute.

 

I would therefore respectfully suggest that you either refer this account back to your client or put it on hold pending completion of your statutory obligations.

 

yours faithfully

 

 

 

Might at worst buy you more time, at best send them scuttling back under the nearest rock.

 

Lets see what they say to that..but I would definitely report them for that statement re CCA..we can work on that later if you wish.

 

 

Elsa x

Edited February 11, 2011 by Undercover-Elsa

[sussex1]

Many thanks Elsa, I will get letter off to DML tomorrow.

 

I haven't yet sent SAR to Barclay's, i will have to wait until payday to get that done at the end of the week.

 

what is the situaion regarding overdraft charges etc on overdrafts, can these be taken off a oustnding debt as with credit cards?

 

many thanks again for your time, much appreciated

 

sussex

[Undercover-Elsa]

The banks will only do this with hardship cases (if it suits them) since the OFT test case. The Govan Law Centre is pursuing other arguments but it's a long winded process I'm afraid.

Elsa x

[sussex1]

thought as much, i'll get letters off as suggested and will post replies as and when.

 

thanks again

[sussex1]

After months of nothing other than ignored threats from Moorcroft, I've today received letter from Home Collection Services Ltd suggesting 2 options

1 interest free repayment plan

2 substantial discount for partial settlement

 

They confirm they are part of Moorcroft and know ive ignored letters.

 

Is this just a fishing exercise and best ignored? or should K just send a copy of Elsa's letter earlier in the thread re the agreement they referred to?

 

thanks

[sussex1]

After months of nothing other than ignored threats from Moorcroft, I've today received letter from Home Collection Services Ltd suggesting 2 options

1 interest free repayment plan

2 substantial discount for partial settlement

 

They confirm they are part of Moorcroft and know ive ignored letters.

 

Is this just a fishing exercise and best ignored? or should K just send a copy of Elsa's letter earlier in the thread re the agreement they referred to?

 

thanks

[dx100uk]

ANY debt where the phishing trippers offer a discount shows they have nothing to go on

and they know they will lose in court.

 

so totally ignore that debt - don't pay anything and dont communicate with them further.

 

dx

[Bazooka Boo]

They confirm they are part of Moorcroft and know ive ignored letters.

 

Oh diddums.....are people ignoring Moorcr@ps puerile empty threatogrammes??

 

Give them a ring and tell them that there is no law which says you must read or reply to any letter that lands on your doormat....what complete imbeciles.

I'd love to have them chasing me for some random amount, I'd happily tie them up in knots.

[sussex1]

Hi

 

i have been ignoring things for a while on this one and to be honest have had no more than template threats.

 

Today though i get in the same envelope 2 letters, 1 from Barclays saying they have sold the debt and another from Lowells saying they have bought it and i know owe them..

 

Given the reply I sent disputing the debt as per Undercover Elsa's post #34 in Feb 11, can they actually sell the debt?

 

Any views on how best to respond here?

 

thanks

[Bazooka Boo]

The debt is in dispute.

Barclays know this which is why they have sold on what they term 'toxic debt', this will have been sold off in a portfolio of other 'toxic debts' for as little a 6p in the pound to whichever mug will pay for it.

 

Barclays have recovered this debt, once by claiming of their insurance and a little extra via the sale of it in a portfolio of other non enforceable debts.

 

Lowlifes are fantastically inept, they do not have the first idea about anything financial least of all how to go about making a profit for their corrupt business.

All these clown EVER need get is this http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?426-A-letter-when-the-account-has-been-passed-to-another-debt-collection-agency

 

No further correspondence ever needs to be entered into.

[sussex1]

thanks, i'll get this off to them

[sussex1]

Hi

 

since sending the letter to Lowells, had no specific reply just a continuation of the normal threats. Today though i received a letter from Red advising me they are going to get a copy of my credit file etc. Im sure they will be happy to find out they are one of a long list of creditors on it.

 

Is it best just to ignore these and see what they come to me with ot a better more proactive route? As its a current account, how do i stand in respect of charges etc and getting balance reduced? Is there any value in doing a SAR to Barclays? i have had no dealing with Red before, are they likely to take action?

 

thanks

[dx100uk]

reds are lowlife!!

[sussex1]

hi now Lowells have written to inform me as of 21st Oct,it will be out of their hands and that Fredricksons will be dealing but its not too late to pay now to avoid this

 

Oh well!!

[Bazooka Boo]

Further down the barrel it goes!

[Bandit127]

Those are just Freddie's usual way of saying hello...

 

 

I have now heard from Fredricks

 

are they usual threats or should I be more worried? This is an overdraft rather than credit card and I'm concerned they are more likely to issue proceedings

 

thanks

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I've removed your post from this morning, as someone has reported that your personal details can be seen. Please remove anything that could identify you and repost.

 

My best, HB