prettyprincesscharlie and M&S

[prettyprincesscharlie]

hi,

 

have read all the threads re m&s and i wanted to tell you my story and ask for help/confirmation.

 

i got a M&S chg card with £500 limit in Oct 1997. i like yr other writers was hassled whilst shoppin in M&S. sometime later (few yrs at least), i got a m/card sent to me out of the blue (did not apply for it or sign anything for it). the limit was gradually increased (without my requesting it) to £4,500. i also had a child and a broken relationship and hence the card mounted up.

 

i requested s77-78 cca request and was SHOCKED when they sent me thr the supposed original cred agree as

 

1. my first name was clearly spelt wrong!

2. it was DEFINATELY not my hand writing

3. it was DEFINATELY not my signature! the application says it is "by post" but i know i did it in store - plus it has the name and store no etc of the m&S representive on it. the t&c they sent me were such a bad copy they were mostly unreadable and they come on a sep sheet to the app form. after re requesting the info in a readable form several times - i gave up and sent a SAR request.

 

today i received a bunch of old stmts printed via a microfiche with lots of codes on them that i dont know what they mean! they did send me some code info but most of the codes cannot be found on this index of codes (3 pages of codes and meanings!).

i have read on another link on this site that a credit agreement has to have customer's signature in a separate box to the lenders signature and that both sigs have to be IN the relevant box. well one question i have is this:-

 

1 my supposed (forged) signature - the "Y" on my surname loops right out the box!!! - can i catch these M&S / HSBC LIARS out on their stupid forgery of my signature?! also,

 

2 i definately did not sign up for the m&s mastercard and when i asked about this their reply was "When M&S introduced the &More Credit Card a letter was sent to you giving you the choice whether to accept the credit card or by using a free phone no provided, to opt out. i enc a sample of this letter for yr records. Having decided to accpt the new card it was posted to you, the enclosed correspondence included the varied t&c of the account. as the credit card was accepted you acknowledged the t&c associated with it.

 

This process was recommended to us by the OFT."

 

Surely this statement is lies??!!!

 

they are also refusing to give me any more info until i provide them with a signature. even tho they have sent me tons and tons of old stmts and in the recent past lots of default letters, doorstep threaten letters etc etc!!! and they want ME to provide them with dates of telephone conversations i may have had with them over the years before they provide me with a print out of them!!!!

 

oh and somewhere along the line - one dept has not talked to other dept and they have sent me a blank copy of the supposed app form and t&c - and this blank reconstructed one is different to the forgery one!

 

lastly, they also inform me that they are unable to provide me with a copy of any default notice but can inform me that one was issued on 02.06.2010.

 

they have also it appears passed my debt onto a Rockwell DCA - although officially i have not had this notified to me by m&s directly. i am not receiving nasty court threatening/doorstep visit letters from rockwell (represently m&s) whilst still getting nasty letters from m&s.

 

can someone pls help me on best was to reply - i need to do this very soon pls. would be very grateful on wat aspect you think i would be most likely to be able to shut these lot up! my credit file is already black so i dont care about that. however, i do not want a ccj as this could affect my employment.

 

thanking you in advance. x

[seriously fed up]

If what they have sent you is the original chargecard agreement, then they might as well have sent you a copy of a page out the phone book imo. I have been through this with them about a year ago - see http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dealing-debt-scotland/199747-help-court-papers-m.html - the argument is all there in my reply to their poc. But basically what it amounts to is that transfering someone from a Chargecard with a small limit that can only be used in M&S, to a Mastercard with a larger limit that can be used wherever you want, is stupid beyond words. They are different products and there should be a separate agreement for each. The stuff about "there was a phone number" is just wind - there should have been a new agreement for the new card. This wasnt just updating an existing card (eg "your card expires next month, here's a new one"), but a whole new ball game. Have a read at the thread and if you have any questions, post again

Re the OFT, I think they were pushed this way by the OFT who were horrified at the time at M&S handing cards out like confetti and made them put up the telephone line so that card holders who didnt want the new card could opt out (a friend in the trade told me that when other lenders heard that M&S were doing this they were, in his words "****ing gobsmacked"). This, though, doesnt make what they did legally enforceable in terms of the Consumer Credit Act.

Re your information, send them a Subject Access Request (Data Protection Act) along with a cheque for £10 and they will have to send you this within 40 days. If they still refuse (eg no sig) tell them you will report them to the COmpliance Officer and may take court action. They HAVE to do this. You can adapt the template letter here http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/48-bank-templates/110--data-protection-act-1998-subject-access-request-.

[prettyprincesscharlie]

HI THERE SFU,

 

Thx for yr swift reply to my previous post. i have spent all day plowing thr all yr stuff and more on top!!

 

yes it was originaly a m&s charge card with a £500 limit and i did not apply for the m/card nor did i sign any t&c for a m/card.

 

cant believe really that they are allowed to get away with this - i thought it was just me (stupidly) that it was happening to. and now after reading yrs and all other posts i realise (and feel slightly better).

 

i have already sent a SAR request and they have sent me copy statements that at first glance appear to go back nov 2003. tho to understand the things is a different matter!

 

even tho they have sent me loads nasty letters, bills, DCA nasty letters and now all these stmts - they are saying that they are not prepared to send any more stuff until i give em my signature! as whatever else they have is too sensitive!! whoever heard of a data protection act that allows some info to be sent but not all?! im not very technical but im going to have a go at putting on the letters they have sent me - pls give me a little advice SFU and i am becoming Seriously Fed Up with all this myself! lol

many thanks. x:-x

[prettyprincesscharlie]

cant seem to upload em !!!!! sorry. too tired now - will try to upload for you tomor. thx again SFu

[seriously fed up]

As for no sig., remind them of what they have sent to you at your correspondence address already - including, I presume, credit cards! They are just at it. The Act is quite clear that anything that they have stored in electronic media (and this include microfiche I believe) and has your name on it, they have to fess up. Why they want a sig is quite interesting. I have never seen it myself but its argued on here that with Photoshop they might transfer it to a strangely compliant agreement. Better safe than sorry imo.

But at the end of the day, if all you signed was a chargecard application form - and in the circumstances you describe - taking you to court would be foolish beyond belief as they dont have anything that is even remotely enforceable. Just remember that in the midst of the avalanche of letters that they will send to try to get the dosh they feel is due from you. They wont go away quickly. They just wont. So remember that, on the basis of what you have told us, there isnt much they can do except huff and puff.

[FlySi]

I've stumbled across your thread whilst dealing with M&S myself. I sent them a SAR and they've responded rather poorly, I'm afraid, with little information. What it does reveal, however, is that the account is still open and that I still have a credit facility available to me. I thought the account was closed.

 

What's really caught my eye is that you say that M&S sent you lots of statements that clearly came from a Microfiche. As they currently claim that they don't have any data for me, including on microfiche, I'm curious as to what more you can tell me about this. Anything (even a scan of one with information blacked out) would help. Anything that I can use with them to prove that they do have this sort of data.

[citizenB]

Flysi, you will probably find that M&S like other banks have been busily shredding anything that is older than 6 years. If your account was active within that period then I would have thought that you would have received statements.

 

If they havent and you believe they have not fully complied with their obligations then send them a 7-14 day Reminder and then make a complaint to the Information Commissioner if they still refuse to comply.