Blackhorse Car HP - Claim issued

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

I'm not suggesting anything is wrong with your agreement it will just help to see what proportion of your payments went where and hopefully we will be able to glean that from your agreement

 

The fact that the figures are so drastically out gives you a very strong case I believe.

[rcl]

its worth posting your agreement anyway, the more people that see it, the more people may find there is something wrong with it, and find it unenforceable lol.

eg Do the figures quoted add up on the agreement ? is the agreement signed? look at the terms and conditions, what charges are listed ? have you been charges anything not listed in the t & c's, have the finance company signed it ? it the agreement regulated by the CCA, what type of agreement is it.

 

If I read rightly, then we have until perhaps friday to send your defence off, in order for the court to receive it in time, is that correct ?

[rcl]

Thanks for the response rcl. I only wish I could have been of assistance.

 

 

Im new to all this, and still learning, but if i can help I will. Its wannabe that is the real expert, she has helped me loads

[rcl]

there are loads of people in a similar situation on the vehicle repo forum, I cant help but think this thread would get the attention it deserves on there ?

[Jamesx81x]

The figures are £192.52 in total.

 

£181.76 to the the HP £17.76 to the insurances.

 

The agreement started in March 2008 and from September 2008 i started making the £181.76 HP payment only.

 

Everything is detailed in the agreement, all signed up and the charges are detailed in the T&C's although this does not make them lawful. It is regulated by the CCA.

 

Seems ok but as i said and people requested i will post it up soon as i get home in the morning.

 

Regarding the defence i filed an acknowledgement of service sent recorded delivery which they should have received on Thursday(need to check). Should they be acknowledging this in writing as i am yet to receive anything.

 

I will let you guys look over everything but from the research and adding figures up time and time again i donot see what argument they can have or how a judge could agree with them.

 

Thanks

[Conniff]

Make sure to remove your personal details James before posting.

[Conniff]

As the defendent, you are entitled to 'all' the paperwork they intend to use in the case under cpr so you should demand to have it sent to you.

[Jamesx81x]

Hi guys the following links are for the agreement and default notice.

 

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc264/Jamesx81x/BlackhorseAgreement.jpg

 

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc264/Jamesx81x/BlackhorseDefault.jpg

 

According to my statement of account up until the date of default there are:

 

£727.04 missed payments

£366.00 charges added

£123.48 late payment interest added *this figure will also be wrong if calculated on an incorrect balance?

 

Total arrears: £1216.52

 

Not what it states on the default notice is it!

 

Take away a further £366 for the added charges then you are looking at £850.52 of arrears.

 

Fact of it is even with the charges added their figure is wrong and they have terminated the account on the back of it. It is not even a few pound out it is hundreds. A company of their stature should be able to accurately calcualte what has been piad and is owed. It is not the consumers responsibilty as they do not have to resources which the creditor does.

 

The refunded charges they have added to the POC makes their claim wrong. Also need to find out what has been paid to where.

 

Thanks

[middenmess]

IMO

 

Default Notice looks non compliant.

 

if posted 1st class then 'served' on Monday 24th.

14 clear days = 8th June but the d/n says payment before 8th June

 

If posted 2nd class then 'served' on Wed.26th

14 clear days = 10th June

 

 

P.S. Horrendous APR on that agreement-Yuk!

[cab1ne]

IMO

 

Default Notice looks non compliant. (its a bit close to the bone)

 

if posted 1st class then 'served' on Monday 24th. (date of service is 25th)

14 clear days = 8th June but the d/n says payment before 8th June (= 7th)

If posted 2nd class then 'served' on Wed.26th (thu 27th)

14 clear days = 10th June

 

 

P.S. Horrendous APR on that agreement-Yuk! (and the **** bags get away with it)

 

31 days in may, 20th is a thursday fri 21st = 1 (sat/sun dont count on service) no bank holidays to account for so, mon 24th = 2. the clock starts ticking from tue 25th +14 = 7th. however second class would be an invalid default notice, (have you got the envelope)

 

if as you say you can prove the amounts are not correct then the date issue is less of an issue:wink:

 

i would take them to the cleaners on the wrong figures, i would also instigate proceedings against them before they changed there minds,

 

cab

[rcl]

As far as I can make out there are lots of things to issue your defence on,

 

1. The creditor hasnt signed the agreement

 

2. The agreement isnt dated

 

3. No schedule of payments

 

4. Invalid default notice in that

a) the statement in the default notice which are required to be in a form specified in a schedule to the regs were not afforded more prominence than other lettering in the notice and where words were shown in capital letters and underlined in the schedule to the regs, they were not afforded even more prominence in the default notice

b) The amounts are wrong, in that they include charges that were previously credited to the account

c) 14 days has not been given to remedy the breach

d) The default notice includes insurance charges, which were cancelled 6 months in to the agreement

 

5. The charges applied to the account are

a) not listed in the terms and conditions on the contract

b) if they were listed, they would be unlawful

 

6. Full payment of the arrears were offered on a number of occassions and ignored

[cab1ne]

As far as I can make out there are lots of things to issue your defence on,

 

1. The creditor hasnt signed the agreement;)

 

2. The agreement isnt dated;)

 

3. No schedule of payments

 

4. Invalid default notice in that

a) the statement in the default notice which are required to be in a form specified in a schedule to the regs were not afforded more prominence than other lettering in the notice and where words were shown in capital letters and underlined in the schedule to the regs, they were not afforded even more prominence in the default notice (de-minimus IMO)

b) The amounts are wrong, in that they include charges that were previously credited to the account;)

c) 14 days has not been given to remedy the breach (1st class "yes" 2nd class "no") the practice direction states they only need to swear an afidavit, so to prove second class was used the envelope would be "very nice":rolleyes:

d) The default notice includes insurance charges, which were cancelled 6 months in to the agreement;)

 

5. The charges applied to the account are

a) not listed in the terms and conditions on the contract

b) if they were listed, they would be unlawful;-)

 

6. Full payment of the arrears were offered on a number of occassions and ignored (being ignored by the OC/DCA, )

 

was it all done on trade premises,

 

cab

[Jamesx81x]

The agreement is a copy with all details ommitted.

 

It is signed and dated by them, the schedule of payments is in the top left. The charges are noted halfway down unde key information. While i appreciate all comments please lets concentrate on the issue of the default notice and termination as i feel i have enough to win with that alone.

 

The default notice was served second class on the 20th May. How many days are given before you are deemed to have received it and are weekends included or is it just working days?

 

There still remains the fact the figure is wrong and i offered and 3 occasions in writing to come to an arrangement over the arrears that were ignored.

 

Thanks

[cab1ne]

The agreement is a copy with all details ommitted.

 

It is signed and dated by them, the schedule of payments is in the top left. The charges are noted halfway down unde key information. While i appreciate all comments please lets concentrate on the issue of the default notice and termination as i feel i have enough to win with that alone.

 

The default notice was served second class on the 20th May. How many days are given before you are deemed to have received it and are weekends included or is it just working days?

 

There still remains the fact the figure is wrong and i offered and 3 occasions in writing to come to an arrangement over the arrears that were ignored.

 

Thanks

 

as in post 35

 

31 days in may, 20th is a thursday fri 21st = 1 (sat/sun dont count on service) no bank holidays to account for so, mon 24th = 2. the clock starts ticking from tue 25th +14 = 7th. however second class would be an invalid default notice, the clock starts ticking from thu 27th +14 = 9th

 

however the figures being wrong are a bigger problem for them.

 

the default is cr@p.

 

cab

[Jamesx81x]

I thank you for bringing that up i did not even notice the dates.

 

So aswell as been invalid due to the dates under the S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 (is that what im after?) it is also invalid due to the figure they have quoted been crap!

 

And they are going to try and get this to stand up in court?

 

Thanks

[cab1ne]

I thank you for bringing that up i did not even notice the dates.

 

So aswell as been invalid due to the dates under the S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 (is that what im after?) YEP it is also invalid due to the figure they have quoted been crap! YEP

 

And they are going to try and get this to stand up in court?

 

Thanks

 

they are persistant are'nt they:roll:

 

cab

[Jamesx81x]

Incompetent is the word!

 

Time to try drafting together my defence now i think!

[cab1ne]

Incompetent is the word!

 

Time to try drafting together my defence now i think!

 

can you post up the POC minus personals:)

 

cab

[Jamesx81x]

Here you are

 

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc264/Jamesx81x/POC.jpg

 

James

[cab1ne]

Here you are

 

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc264/Jamesx81x/POC.jpg

 

James

 

was this sent via northampton or via another county court. just looks odd to me.

 

cab

[Jamesx81x]

It was sent via my local County Court!

[Jamesx81x]

I have been looking over the Interpretation Act 1978 Section 7.

 

Where does it specifically state the time frames regarding 1st and second class post?

 

Thanks

[cab1ne]

I have been looking over the Interpretation Act 1978 Section 7.

 

Where does it specifically state the time frames regarding 1st and second class post?

 

Thanks

 

1. Interpretation Act 1978, Section 7

 

This states:-

 

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expressions "give" or "send" or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post."

 

2. Practice Direction

Service of Documents - First and Second Class Mail

With effect from 16 April 1985 the Practice Direction issued on 30 July 1968 is hereby revoked and the following is substituted therefore.

1. Under S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 service by post is deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved, at the time when the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

2. To avoid uncertainty as to the date of service it will be taken (subject to proof to the contrary) that delivery in the ordinary course of post was effected:-

(a) in the case of first class mail, on the second working day after posting;

(b) in the case of second class mail, on the fourth working day after posting.

"Working days" are Monday to Friday, excluding any bank holiday.

 

3. Affidavits of service shall state whether the document was dispatched by first or second class mail. If this information is omitted it will be assumed that second class mail was used.

 

4. This direction is subject to the special provisions of RSC Order 10, rule 1(3) relating to the service of originating process.

 

8 March 1985

J R BICKFORD SMITH Senior Master

Queen's Bench Division

 

cab

[Jamesx81x]

Thanks just want to be able to back everything i list up with fact then it wont catch me out.

 

Should all of the above be included in my defence.?

 

Thanks

[cab1ne]

Thanks just want to be able to back everything i list up with fact then it wont catch me out.

 

Should all of the above be included in my defence.?

 

Thanks

 

i personally just make a merry dance over the postal bit

 

 

2. Practice Direction

Service of Documents - First and Second Class Mail

 

With effect from 16 April 1985 the Practice Direction issued on 30 July 1968 is hereby revoked and the following is substituted therefore.

 

1. Under S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 service by post is deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved, at the time when the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

 

2. To avoid uncertainty as to the date of service it will be taken (subject to proof to the contrary) that delivery in the ordinary course of post was effected:-

 

(a) in the case of first class mail, on the second working day after posting;

 

(b) in the case of second class mail, on the fourth working day after posting.

 

"Working days" are Monday to Friday, excluding any bank holiday

cab