Men come to collect car -urgent help needed!

[cab1ne]

I cant find anything on the web that says a car can or cannot be repo'd from business premises. From my own experience, my car was repo'd from my driveway at home. The lender said, in court papers, that they were entitled to do this as I was running a business from home, and a solicitor verfied that the lender was entitled to do this,

 

 

If a car is parked on business premises, then the business is inviting joe public on to private land, including repo men

 

From my own claim, I then said that there was no business being run from my home, and the repo was unlawful, against Section 92 of the CCA. and the finance company said the burden of proof was on me to provide evidence that there was no business run from the property (which was easy to prove)

 

However, if your agreement is over 25K and not regulated by the CCA, i think it may be irrelevant either way.

 

to refine that a little bit more,

 

if you are a business running from home, for business rules to apply there has to be 3 or more people working from the premises within the business. if you are for example a "one man band" then you are a consumer and section 92 DOES apply.

 

cab

[rcl]

to refine that a little bit more,

 

if you are a business running from home, for business rules to apply there has to be 3 or more people working from the premises within the business. if you are for example a "one man band" then you are a consumer and section 92 DOES apply.

 

cab

 

 

thanks cab, I was unsure x

[cab1ne]

thanks cab, I was unsure x

 

no probs m8, happy to help were i can ( i lear'nt that bit of info throu experience)

 

cab

[the_maverick]

Thanks for that, anymore thughts anyone? Wannabee you still there?

 

Also, would like assistance in sending a SAR request. Is it a standard data request like for everything else?

 

Also, I did recieve default notices. Until the day never I have had anything prior informing me they wish to repossess. Only veiled threats via Anglia, and no actual confirmation from Mercedes that they had appointed Anglia too.

 

Any suggestions on what to do next?

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

I'm devastated to hear you've lost your car and I apologise for not being around yesterday

 

It seems they've responded to your letters by sending out the repo man asap! This is an outrage!

 

There are a few things that are troubling me just now:

 

1. They said they would consider your offer but couldn't do anything until the account was "back" with them from the repo company??
   
2. The repo man left a copy of the fax received from them with instructions to uplift, and this was yesterday???
   
3. Have you got a copy of the paperwork he wanted you to sign?
   
4. Any chance you could scan up a copy of the default notice minus personal details?
   
5. You say you had an arrangement with them to make reduced payments, did they send you any paperwork regarding this and did you sign anything??
   

One way or another we will get to the bottom of this, don't worry you've got cag on your team

[beyondhope]

Here is a very thorough SAR letter originally designed for welcome finance but edit to suit where necessary

 

[your address]

 

 

 

[their address]

 

 

[DATE]

 

 

 

 

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

Subject access request

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to my business with yourselves.

Please note that I require disclosure of any personal data which you hold on me for the entire period of my business with you.

The Subject Access is not limited to my transaction history and it is not linited merely to 6 years of historical information.

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my financial business with you.

I require all information on details of all insurance products supplied by welcome financial services. This is to include the statement of means, statement of price, details of all insurance premium tax paid, and underwriting sheets.

If mortage indemnity insurance has been added to the agreement, i require all details on who this premium was paid to, and who underwrites this insurance.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

If you intend to send a reconstituted copy of an agreement you must declare the reason why it has been reconstituted and if the original exists, the type of filing system or archive the originals are stored on.

 

If it is the case that any of the requested documents can not be supplied because they have been destroyed,please indicate;

 

1.The date the document (s) was/were destroyed.

 

2.The method used for destruction.

 

3.The position of the individual/individuals tasked with destruction.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties or charges which are invalid under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations against me, then I shall be reclaiming them together with any interest charges which you have levied on them.

As it is your wrongdoing and mishandling of my account which has created the necessity for this Subject Access Request, I shall also be reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

***dont forget not to sign, send £10 postal order, send recorded, keep proof of postage***

__________________

 

 

Im sorry to learn they have taken your vehicle but it undoubtedly seems they have c**ked up in the process and with wannabe and cag on your side we will get this sorted just relax in the fact you no longer have to worry about whether the car will be there the next time you look, dont get upset get even

[the_maverick]

Hi all,

 

Will leave a more detailed response later when I finished work. But yes Wannabee, sent fax at 9am. 9.45am repo men recieve a fax telling them to take the car (although did not specify from where of course!) so proabably why they came to my work and not the house in the evening as it would have been on my drive.

 

Yes, they did say they would consider the offer when the account was back with them but could not agree anything until then. A partial payment was offered until then and declined.

 

I recieved two copies from the repo men. One was just an inspection sheet that I was supposed to sign and would not. Another was a copy of the fax fro Mercedes. Will post it up later.

 

Thank you B for the SAR request sheet. Is it worth mentioning I suspect that they may have repossed the car illegaly at this point? ( I know it seems a grey area on from where they took it, but It does look like they have not followed correct procedures at least) Not sure if you have a time frame in when to register a complaint?

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Sorry my point was if they said they couldn't do anything because they didn't have the account then how could they only issue the repo order yesterday??

Surely if they didn't have the account they couldn't issue anything?!!

 

In my opinion I wouldn't mention anything about anything until you've got your sar back, at least then you can make informed claims

[the_maverick]

I see, good point. They refused payment on this scenario. But like I said earlier, I have not recieved anything from Mercedes in writing telling me this account was being handled by the repo men and to only deal with.

 

Will get the request off tomorrow.

[bierespeciale]

Did you want to get the car back? do you know who refused payment at mercedes and when you spoke to them, if memory serves, they record all their phone calls

[bierespeciale]

Wont say I told you so Wanabee , must be a record as you say

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Wont say I told you so Wanabee , must be a record as you say

Well absolutely, quite a record!

I do recall saying "I doubt very much they will be able to close the file, refer it back to the OC, apply for a court order, receive a hearing date, attend a hearing, obtain an order, apply for a warrant of execution and then wait for the bailiffs to enforce the warrant in 3 days, that'd be an almighty record in anyone's book!!"

Please forgive my ignorance, I must've missed the part where the OP informed us that that had happened.

 

Your support and advice on this thread has been invaluable, I would personally like to thank you for mentioning the part about calls being recorded and refusing payment. I hadn't considered that aspect of it and I'm sure it will be extremely useful in any court claim that may arise as a result of this.

 

So once again, thank you kindly for your input. Now if you don't mind, I think I'd much rather spend my time more constructively, in helping others fight back against the grossly unfair treatment they are receiving from lenders that consider themselves above the law rather than entering in to inconsequential, protracted dialogue with your kind self.

 

If you wish to address me in future I fear you may find yourself in a somewhat one-sided conversation, however if you have any further comments that will strengthen the OP's case please feel free to share, I'm sure he will be most grateful.

[cab1ne]

Well absolutely, quite a record!

I do recall saying "I doubt very much they will be able to close the file, refer it back to the OC, apply for a court order, receive a hearing date, attend a hearing, obtain an order, apply for a warrant of execution and then wait for the bailiffs to enforce the warrant in 3 days, that'd be an almighty record in anyone's book!!"

Please forgive my ignorance, I must've missed the part where the OP informed us that that had happened.

 

Your support and advice on this thread has been invaluable, I would personally like to thank you for mentioning the part about calls being recorded and refusing payment. I hadn't considered that aspect of it and I'm sure it will be extremely useful in any court claim that may arise as a result of this.

 

So once again, thank you kindly for your input. Now if you don't mind, I think I'd much rather spend my time more constructively, in helping others fight back against the grossly unfair treatment they are receiving from lenders that consider themselves above the law rather than entering in to inconsequential, protracted dialogue with your kind self.

 

If you wish to address me in future I fear you may find yourself in a somewhat one-sided conversation, however if you have any further comments that will strengthen the OP's case please feel free to share, I'm sure he will be most grateful.

 

"OOOOoooooooooooooH":razz:

 

cab

[the_maverick]

Did you want to get the car back? do you know who refused payment at mercedes and when you spoke to them, if memory serves, they record all their phone calls

 

BS, I assume by the manner of your comments, and the fact you only seem to comment on various Mercedes threads, that is who you work for?

 

No matter, the fact are the facts and I do appreciate any help & advice.

[the_maverick]

Hi all,

 

Sorry for the delay in posting. Sods law this as all happened on a very busy working week when I am doing extra to cover holidays (and being slightly complicated further by a slight transportation issue! Ahem...) so I am not getting back until late.

 

Anyway, an update.

 

Some letters have start arriving.

 

On wed I recieved one from Mercedes saying they intend to repossess the car, two days after it has already been collected. Asking me to contact them to discuss arrangements. Is there a legal amount of notice they should give in this instance? They repo people only recieved notice themselves at 9.45 on the monday so can't claim I was given notice by them as they had not been given authorisation to do so themselves?

 

On fri, I recieved another letter saying they have recieved my fax on monday and are unable to extend the terms because they have already collected the car and were making arrangements to dispose of it.

 

Following on from BS's question about the telephone call. Yes, I made a note of the time & details when I spoke to them. I also made it quite clear in the conversation confirming that they are refusing any payment. She said that she is not refusing payment , just cannot as the account is with the repo people. No mention of repossesing the car or anything. Just that she cannot authorise the offer from me so it would need to put it in writing so a manager can look at it. This was done as requested, faxed first thing on monday 9.00am, and posted later on. 9.45 Mercedes fax repo people telling them to collect the car.

 

I am sending off the INFO request above at the weekend when I have a bit more time to fine tune it so would welcome any comments that are worth adding, or should I simply send the letter as is.

[the_maverick]

Did you want to get the car back?

 

Is this still an option at this point?

 

The main point of all of this was that I needed to reduce my payments to a more manageable level. If there was absolutely no chance of this happening then I would have found the money to bring the account upto date and kept the car for another few months until I had paid 50% and gave it back without penalty.

 

Especially with question marks over the manner of the reposession still to be answered.

[the_maverick]

Hi all, Hope some people are still around to help!

 

Finally got a letter from Mercedes Sols asking for £6k to clear the debt after selling of the car. Naturally the letter just says pay the money or else. No explanation of costs etc.

 

From reading other similar threads I would assume first point of call would be getting all the info from them. The letter states that if no reply within seven days they will commence legal proceedings.

 

What is the best way forward, is there a template I can send them asking for relevent documentation? Or does CPR rules work in the situation as unlike the usual 'We MAY commence legal proceedings' as on DCA letters, this clearly says 'WILL' so the intent is there.

 

A quick recap for any new viewers.

 

Bought a Mercedes for 25k and defaulted with loss of earning. Tried to make arrangements for smaller amounts but were refused everytime. On the final attempt they asked me to put something in writing for a manager to consider, but at the same time told repo men to take back the car. Car was taken without permission, notice, or any advance paperwork, from work premises. At the time I had a plan B in place to sell the car to a local garage should they turn my payment offer down again. They offered me £18600 (current book price at the time) which would have left me with a balance to pay of just £2500 which I would have found. Arguably they have worked things for there benefit by getting the car back in the manner they did and selling it on to one of there dealerships at a discount, and charging me the £6k.

 

Any help will be great.

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Hello Maverick, welcome back

 

I would say that before taking any further steps we need to establish all the details like:

 

• Was the agreement regulated by the CCA?
  
• When did you receive the default and was it accurate?
  
• Did you receive a termination notice or notice of intended repo?
  
• Have they sent you anything regarding the details of the sale of the car?
  
• Was the property they removed from privately owned by a third party with restricted access??
  

From what I understand even if the agreement is unregulated, they still need to abide by the law of contract.

 

I'm not going to be around now until this evening but if you could find out those details and if possible scan and post up copies of the default notice and agreement that would be helpful.

 

Speak soon.

[the_maverick]

Hi Wannabe,

 

Sorry for my delayed reply, been tied up all week dealing with my business issues....which ironcially started my personal problems. Anyway back on topic!

 

99.99% sure it will be unregulated, it was over 25k.

 

There were default notices, but they have been mislaid so cant check specifics. Definately nothing regarding intend to repo until 'after' they have already done it. Look back on thread and they were speaking to me on the friday and asked for me to right them a letter regarding payments etc for them to consider, but at 9.40 Monday morning had faxed the repo people to the take the car (they gave me a copy of the fax after they had already removed the car.) No parperwork before. I letter came afterwards from mercedes telling me they 'decline' my offer of payment...and they have already taken the car anyway!!

 

The car was taken from my work place. Private property definately, but public (customers) do have access.

 

Maverick

[HadEnough]

Just a freindly BUMP

[the_maverick]

Hi all,

 

Just had some post forwarded on to me and apparently on the 28th October, I recieved a Statutory Demand for 6k from Solicitors acting on Mercedes behalf. I have not recieved anymore paperwork, from a court?, but maybe still on route as it tend to take a week or two for any mail to arrive at my new address.

 

Not quite sure what this is? Is it actually a court claim now? And more importantly how to respond. The limited paperwork provided says I have 18 days to apply for a set aside?

 

Would appreciate some quick adivse on this.

 

Mav

[nicolee2931]

You must never ignore a Stat Demand if you recieve one you must act as they are taking the first steps to bankrupt you, I don't know too much about the proceedure other than the serious nature of the situation if you have assets such as property you own. Have a read through the forum on the matter and take lagal advice asap if you own property or any other valuable asset.

[the_maverick]

Thanks, I have read that some creditors like to use this tactic as its quite easy for anyone to send a statutory demand in the hope to provoke a reaction. The deadline for a set aside as passed, but I would asume should that want to take it further they would need to provide some sort of proof as some point, so far they have simply sent a prior letter saying 'you owe this, pay up' no details of how they come up with the figure or anything.

 

That said I will send a letter by fax & post in the morning asking them for 'proof', so we will see what happens.

[rcl]

have you requested a SAR from them ?

[the_maverick]

Hi,

 

I never sent a SAR to Mercedes, but I as there solicitors we threatening legal action and issuing a statuory demand, I adapted a letter Wannebee advised another Mercedes Benz sufferer on his thread. Basically a request under CPR rules for all infomation they hold in relation to this claim, I would assume this should work in the same way?

 

I am right in assuming that they 'must' provide all documentation they intend to use in 'court', and cannot simply withhold info?

 

The list of requests is quite extensive including an actual copy of the credit agreement, default notices, list of charges they are claiming and a breakdown of what they are for, and of course all info relating to the forced reposession.

 

An the issue of the statutory demand I received this info from the Insolvency Practitioner who is dealing with my business adminsitration which is quite interesting. And provides a flaw in there sending out the statutory demand.

 

"The completed form must usually be served on the individual in person. The creditor

must have a certificate of service, so it is usual to employ a process server to carry

out this function (these are listed in Yellow Pages under 'detective agencies'). The

court is not involved in the issuing of statutory demands, so no court fee is payable."

 

I just recieved a letter in the post, not even recorded delivery, asking for me to confirm receipt. Yes, that was going to happen!