HSBC: Help Desperatley Needed! *** Won ***

[the_shadow]

Just to clraify: the CRAs have a "Default" registered on the GF's credit file for this HSBC account (which the bank has subsequently re-opened following her complaint). But she only ever received a default letter from them (not a DN).

 

Yep sorry thats what I was querying, banks normally just give a formal notice, just making sure.

 

 

S.

[Mozz1]

Yep sorry thats what I was querying, banks normally just give a formal notice, just making sure.

 

 

S.

 

Darn, I was hoping there was something else I could throw at 'em just then!

[car2403]

This is the difference between 'Default' (capital 'D') and 'default' (lowercase 'd') - the default is the failure to comply to the terms of the overdraft and the Default is the process of terminating it and recording a Default with the CRA's.

 

Incidentally, I haven't seen an overdraft that requires a Default Notice, as most are terminated with a Termination Notice, so this doesn't help much.

 

I must say, I respect your vigour to take this further, but I know how important CRA data is, and I've always fought on that basis - will be interested to see what happens, moving forward, then.

[Mozz1]

She never received a termination notice.

[johnnymitch]

Hi Mozz1 ,

 

If you have a look at the Default Notice stuff I've just posted on ravesafe's thread it might help ........

 

Basically , they have to be technically on the ball ,,,,,,,,, no mistakes .....and have DEFAULT NOTICE in great big letters along the top .

[Mozz1]

Hi Mozz1 ,

 

If you have a look at the Default Notice stuff I've just posted on ravesafe's thread it might help ........

 

Basically , they have to be technically on the ball ,,,,,,,,, no mistakes .....and have DEFAULT NOTICE in great big letters along the top .

 

Johnny, will do.

But it wasn't a DN it was a default letter, which DEF did not have "Default Notice" on it. Just a demand for full repayment and a threat to "suspend the account and refer to DCAs. In the end they closed the account and have had to re-open it.

 

I agree with Car2403 that the CRA situation is way more important than the dosh they are offering at this juncture and it initially passed me by just how crafty HSBC's wording is in that f&f letter.

 

Does the default letter have to comply with any rules and regs?

[Mozz1]

i have just read your ravesafe post Johnny. Thx for this.

However, I am still confused about how applicable s.88 is where default letters are concerned. Clearly with CCA regulated agreements there are formalities to follow with DNs, but does this apply to default letters?

 

Our argument is that the banks are obliged under the Lending Standards Boards Regulation Rules to consider customers in financial distress, and unemployment is given as an example in the LSB's regulation rules. Also the excess notices ask customers to "get in touch with us" with yuor proposals.

 

Now, if a bank ignores communications from a customer (as it did with my GF) then it is not only in breach of the LSBs rules but is also issuing an invalid defualt notice. And the Default registered at the CRAs should be removed in its entirety.

 

In our case the bank also agreed a repayment plan AFTER ther default letter and then backtracked on it.

[car2403]

She never received a termination notice.

 

Don't shoot the messenger, but the question is whether one was SENT, not whether one was RECEIVED. Now, obviously, one should have been SENT and RECEIVED, but they only need to show one was sent - has a DPA SAR been done and does the Account records show one being SENT, then?

 

Basically , they have to be technically on the ball ,,,,,,,,, no mistakes .....and have DEFAULT NOTICE in great big letters along the top .

 

It's an overdraft, so no Default Notice is needed, but they do need to have sent a Termination Notice - although there is no form and content requirements for a TN.

 

i have just read your ravesafe post Johnny. Thx for this.

However, I am still confused about how applicable s.88 is where default letters are concerned. Clearly with CCA regulated agreements there are formalities to follow with DNs, but does this apply to default letters?

 

See above - s.87/s.88 do not apply to Overdrafts.

[Mozz1]

Hi Car2403. No risk of me shooting you I'm way too grateful for CAG's help!

All we know is that no termination notice was received, correct. In fact, we only found out her account had been closed when she just hapened to 'phone up the bank for some info relating to the 'agreed' repayment plan.

 

yeah thats what I thought about default letters -vs- Default Notices. All lead to the same road, though, a "Default" with the CRAs. Surely to goodness default letetrs for od's are regulated in some way??

 

She has sent an SAR and that is due to expire (I mean, the 40 day time limit) on friday so we will then go to the ICO.

[johnnymitch]

Thanks for the clarification on that , car ..........I had kind of missed the fine point between Notice and Letter .... (aye aye ! where's the blushy emoticon gone ?????????)

 

by Mozz 1 : In our case the bank also agreed a repayment plan AFTER ther default letter and then backtracked on it.

.

 

That's why I said give them a chance to sort it out ,,,, and if they don't......... report them to FOS ....but i think I'd make FOS aware that this is in the melting pot anyway , so you don't miss any time limits.....

Edited August 10, 2010 by johnnymitch
deleting font marks ......

[Mozz1]

yes absolutely Johnny. In fact, |HSBC have used the renaged agreement plan as the excuse to reinstate the account and to offer money; they have chosen to deny any irregularities concerning the default letter and the referral to Metro. To get the credit file rectified she has to take on the bank and not accept the f&f.

[car2403]

Surely to goodness default letetrs for od's are regulated in some way??

 

They are regulated, in theory at least, by the OFT's Determination - it states that the Bank must tell you by which process they will terminate the overdraft when you take it out.

 

There are no rules/regulations around this, other than that requirement.

 

aye aye ! where's the blushy emoticon gone ?????????

 

Yes, there's a few of our 'friends' currently missing in action... and they call this progress?!

 

That's why I said give them a chance to sort it out ,,,, and if they don't......... report them to FOS ....but i think I'd make FOS aware that this is in the melting pot anyway , so you don't miss any time limits.....

 

Shhh, but I don't think the FOS will do anything about this - it will probably have to go to Court. I didn't say it, though... (Positive thinking and all that...)

 

yes absolutely Johnny. In fact, |HSBC have used the renaged agreement plan as the excuse to reinstate the account and to offer money; they have chosen to deny any irregularities concerning the default letter and the referral to Metro. To get the credit file rectified she has to take on the bank and not accept the f&f.

 

You could always counter offer - send them a letter saying that you will agree to their terms accept that you want all the CRA data removing, not just some of it. They make surprise you, in return, otherwise at least you've tried. I'd mark the letter "without prejudice, save as to costs", so if you go on to Win, on the same terms you offer to them now, you can claim your costs back from that point much easier!

[johnnymitch]

by car2403 : You could always counter offer - send them a letter saying that you will agree to their terms accept that you want all the CRA data removing, not just some of it.

 

do you mean accept........or except, here car ....... it makes a bit of difference to the meaning ......

[Mozz1]

reckon that's "except"

 

Shhh, but I don't think the FOS will do anything about this - it will probably have to go to Court. I didn't say it, though... (Positive thinking and all that...)

 

One step at a time but yes we'd be willing to sue their ass 'cept for the fact that we could end up paying their costs which we don't want to do. that's the bummer.

 

hoping the foz won't be as ineffectual as you think they will be

 

The LSB have been looking into it behind the scenes but of course wed on't hear from them at all; just the initial letter from Robert Skinner the CEO

[car2403]

do you mean accept........or except, here car ....... it makes a bit of difference to the meaning ......

 

Except

 

That's twice I've been caught out by the forum software, today

[Guest HeftyHippo]

Hi Mozz1 ,

 

If you have a look at the Default Notice stuff I've just posted on ravesafe's thread it might help ........

 

Basically , they have to be technically on the ball ,,,,,,,,, no mistakes .....and have DEFAULT NOTICE in great big letters along the top .

 

Would be a good idea if yu gave a link to that post, many of us are struggling to get searches properly with the new site look

[johnnymitch]

The searches are still there Mozz1 ,, .go to the top of this page , there's a thin black border and onthe extreme right of it there is the 'Advanced Search ' link which we've used in the past .........

[Peterbard]

Hi

 

The default letter recieved may well have something to do with the sections 86a/b inserted inti the CCA by the 2006 act.

 

Regards

Peter

[Guest HeftyHippo]

The searches are still there Mozz1 ,, .go to the top of this page , there's a thin black border and onthe extreme right of it there is the 'Advanced Search ' link which we've used in the past .........

 

If you follow your advice, you will see a list of posts.......... nicely listed according to the Thread Title, also mentioned is the forum. There is no mention of the thread starter. So, saying you/someone posted in someone else's thread, doe not make it findable from the search function, even when the search function works.

 

Perhaps someone might help others out by linking to the post concerned in the usual way?

[Mozz1]

I'm trying to attach the default notice but the new website won't let me. any ideas?

[emandcole]

Hit reply as normal, then click the Go Advanced button at the bottom. More buttons will appear next to the font type, italics etc. Click on the triangles next to the paperclip icon and you'll be able to upload from files on your comp.

[Mozz1]

Hit reply as normal, then click the Go Advanced button at the bottom. More buttons will appear next to the font type, italics etc. Click on the triangles next to the paperclip icon and you'll be able to upload from files on your comp.

 

The Go Advanced doesn't work. it just takes me to a blank page with a link back to this thread! There are no icons at all. Methinks something to do with the new site.

Are you able to open Go Advanced and attach?

[The Debt Star]

Ok. Here is the Hongkong Shanghai Wan-King Corporation's 'default letter.'

 

Anyone any thoughts on it?

[The Debt Star]

should add: sent on behalf of mozz1 who can't upload files onto the new site!!!!!

Hope this worked ok, mozz.

[The Debt Star]

mozz, sorry good fella but the file images are too small! The files you emailed me could only be uploaded as thumbnails. Good grief! Sorry mate, have tried. I can't get the hang of this new website, even using smilies needs the advanced edit tab (which of course you don't have!)