Clarification please

[horus]

Hi all

 

Just reading through the threads here which I must say are a gold mine of information. I'm just looking for clarification on what I've read in layman's terms.

 

My situation to start with.

 

I've lived in the ROI for over 3 years. When I moved over I brought credit card debts with me from Capital One (around £5k outstanding) and Egg (£9k) and a personal loan from HSBC (9k).

 

I was making payments on them fine until around Feb/March this year when my employers went into administration and all overtime and bonuses stopped. My basic wage just covers my mortgage repayments so I ahve very little extra.

 

The debts are now about ready to default according to the letters I get.

 

Cap 1 and HSBC know I live outside the UK. I told EGG when I moved but they refused to take an address outside the UK so I had to give them my parents address.

 

From reading the threads here I take it that:

 

1. As I live outside the UK and have done so for over 3 years there's practically nothing that any of these companies can do to server papers or get a collection agency to start knocking on my door.

 

2. A CCJ would only affect me and my credit rating in the UK and then only for 6 years. It wouldn't show up on any credit searches in the ROI?

 

3. Is there a possibility that they could try and make me bankrupt in the ROI?

 

4. Should I discuss payment plans with them? I had a chat with EGG (or their agents) a few weeks ago and they said to send in an income/expenditure form and they would see what they thought but if they didn't think I could make payments they would look to charge the account off - what does that mean?

 

All advice appreciated

 

Many thanks

[theoldgit]

I'm sure some of the experts will advise shortly but I think the main thing I would be worrying about, for now, is EGG's apparent refusal to acknowledge you are no longer in the UK, I would have thought that by having your parents address on their files it would enable Carter, or somebody of his ilk to get a CCJ against you at that address. And whilst you might be able to get it set aside, it would be hassle.

That said you seem to have a dialogue with somebody from EGG so it might not be a problem, but I wouldn't trust them an inch and I certainly wouldn't be giving them an I&E sheet.

[cerberusalert]

1. As I live outside the UK and have done so for over 3 years there's practically nothing that any of these companies can do to server papers or get a collection agency to start knocking on my door.

there are reciprocal agreements but they would have to use the legal system in the ROI which they would find difficult to do and in the majority of cases is financially unviable for them.

2. A CCJ would only affect me and my credit rating in the UK and then only for 6 years. It wouldn't show up on any credit searches in the ROI?

As you are in a member State of the EU they cannot obtain a CCJ against you in the UK after 3 months, again they would have to use the system in the ROI.

3. Is there a possibility that they could try and make me bankrupt in the ROI?

They could but they would have to be certain that they would recover not only the debt but the cost to them of taking the action... which currently in the UK is £1K+ court fees... so it would be similar there. In the majority of cases bankruptcy is not a viable option for creditors... particularly as they would be lucky to receive 10p in the £.

4. Should I discuss payment plans with them? I had a chat with EGG (or their agents) a few weeks ago and they said to send in an income/expenditure form and they would see what they thought but if they didn't think I could make payments they would look to charge the account off - what does that mean?

Have you checked to see whether these debts are enforceable by sending the creditors a CCA request?

[horus]

Thanks.

 

By CCA request I assume that's a credit card agreement? What would I be looking for?

 

What about what theoldgit said about the i&e sheet?

 

Should I try and make payments to each of them (this would probably mean withdrawing cash from my ROI visa card to pay them so would really be robbing Peter to pay Paul).

 

EGG said they couldn't add an address outside the UK to their system which I thought strange as not everyone who takes out a visa card stays in the same country all their life. They also forced me to stop using it once they found out I lived outside the UK and said I had to continue to pay the balance off.

[cerberusalert]

EGG said they couldn't add an address outside the UK to their system

I bet they can if you stop paying them.

 

CCA request = http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/581-cca-request-letter

What about what theoldgit said about the i&e sheet?

You don't need to worry about one of those. If you decide to make token payments it's you who decides what you can reasonably afford not them.

[cerberusalert]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162851-consumer-credit-agreements-guide.html

[horus]

Thanks again - but how will I know if it's enforcable?

[cerberusalert]

Read the link in post #6.

 

When you start getting them back, scan them remove any identifiers and post them up here & we'll check them over for you.

[horus]

Sorry, missed that one:oops:

[kbob]

there are reciprocal agreements but they would have to use the legal system in the ROI which they would find difficult to do and in the majority of cases is financially unviable for them.As you are in a member State of the EU they cannot obtain a CCJ against you in the UK after 3 months, again they would have to use the system in the ROI.They could but they would have to be certain that they would recover not only the debt but the cost to them of taking the action... which currently in the UK is £1K+ court fees... so it would be similar there. In the majority of cases bankruptcy is not a viable option for creditors... particularly as they would be lucky to receive 10p in the £.Have you checked to see whether these debts are enforceable by sending the creditors a CCA request?

 

 

Cerberusalert - In other posts you have stated that for CCA 1974 signed UK credit card debt it's unenforceable without a valid UK CCJ that CCJ being easily set aside if you can prove non UK residence at the time of issue.

 

But no now you say creditors can use the legal system of the EU member state that you are now resident in. Please explain? Should we with large UK CCA 1974 debt be be worried about enforcement action in our EU member states?

 

I keep thinking if it's just as simple as relocating outside the UK to a EU member state why are hundreds of thousands of UK debt slaves not uping sticks and leaving the UK to escape debt??

 

Regards,

 

kbob

[cerberusalert]

Bankruptcy is totally different to CCA 1974 debts.

[kbob]

Bankruptcy is totally different to CCA 1974 debts.

 

Thanks Cerberusalert - So to clarify:

 

You say UK credit card debt (CCA 1974) is nothing to worry about once UK non resident and living within the UK?

 

But if you have mortgage debt or any other UK contract debt *not* CCA 1974 you should be worried about EU cross border local enforcement action??? SD and bankruptcy demands in your local country??

[cerberusalert]

But if you have mortgage debt or any other UK contract debt *not* CCA 1974 you should be worried about EU cross border local enforcement action??? SD and bankruptcy demands in your local country??

SDs and Bankruptcy can be applied for in the UK within 3 months if you live in the EU & can then be transferred for enforcement using reciprocal agreements. Otherwise they would have to use the bankruptcy procedures in the EU country you are resident in.

 

Technically anyone with a debt over £750 can be made bankrupt.

[cerberusalert]

CCJs and Bankruptcy are two different animals & have different rules.

[kbob]

CCJs and Bankruptcy are two different animals & have different rules.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong but;

For CCA1974 credit card debt a creditor or DCA can't just go straight to SD and Bankruptcy partition without first obtaining CCJ? Even if the debtor is outside the UK residing the EU?

[cerberusalert]

It's a method used to bypass an application for a CCJ.

 

What is a statutory Demand?

 

A Statutory Demand is the first step to bankruptcy against an individual and this is prepared and served without any court involvement. A statutory demand can be served as soon as the debt is due and a judgment is not necessary. If the debtor disputes the claim, he or she can apply for the statutory demand to be set aside. The bankruptcy court will halt the bankruptcy if there is any dispute about the sum outstanding. It can be relatively easy for a debtor to have a statutory demand set aside and the process can result in an order for costs being made against the creditor.

 

Please note that a statutory demand in 90% of instances is 'bluffing technique' used to scare a person into paying up. If a bankruptcy petition does not follow then this will become apparent.

[horus]

Had a missed call today from a company called STC who asked me to call them back. Did an online search for the number and some people were talking about a company called Capquest who I assume to be an agency. The only one of my creditors who has this number (as far as I know) is HSBC.

 

Any info on how I should proceed?

[cerberusalert]

Ignore for now, they cannot take any action.

[horus]

Why can't they? And should I make small payments to the creditor as a gesture of my intention to pay?

[ozzyboy]

Just picked this up from one of your previous replies..."EGG said they couldn't add an address outside the UK to their system which I thought strange as not everyone who takes out a visa card stays in the same country all their life. They also forced me to stop using it once they found out I lived outside the UK and said I had to continue to pay the balance off."

 

Doubtless someone who knows more can confirm, but surely EGG would be in breach of their own contract by taking this action.

 

I've never seen anything in any agreement that provides for the card issuer to terminate the user's account just because they move abroad.

 

If this is the case, and they are in breach, wouldn't the debt to EGG be unenforecable on these grounds alone?

[Worriedincanada]

 

 

 

EGG said they couldn't add an address outside the UK to their system.

 

That is what they said to us when we first moved overseas(this was for a loan), the guy from Egg also added that if we changed it to a parents address in the UK then things would be fine, which is what we did....BIG mistake.

 

When we hit financial difficulties with them we inform them again that it was just my husbands fathers address as we were overseas (he had never lived at the address on file) but could we discuss a payment plan, they said like the previous poster that because we were overseas then our account would go straight to collections.

We asked them to inform the collection agency they were using of our address overseas they said they would but I'm sure they haven't as we have received nothing from anyone concerning egg. My mother in law received a phone call from a telegram company (cannot remember the name but the number was a collection agency as apposed to the telegram company they told her they were) asking her to confirm my husband details (luckily she told them no). Now my husband has never lived with his mother at her address, has never given her details to anyone so how they have got her details is a mystery. This has to be Egg or their collections.

[horus]

Just had a letter come from Capital one saying they arrainged for a debt collector to call on the 21st. My wife opened the letter and has gone ballistic. they say I should call them and make arrangements to pay the actuall balance owed or pay monthly.

 

Can/will they get someone to call? Should I call them?

[cerberusalert]

Can/will they get someone to call? Should I call them?

No, no & no.

 

It's their normal drivel, the have no authority to 'call' in the UK and even less in Eire. If you read it again it is 'call' as in telephone rather than call at the door.

[horus]

Phew thank God for that! They'll have no luck then as they only have my old UK mobi number whichhas been in active for 3 years!

 

So what action should I take now? Should I write and make settlemant offers or payment plans or what? I'm worried now as my wife is funny about these things:-|

[cerberusalert]

How old is the Crap1 a/c & how long since you made a payment?