Facing Gross Misconduct - Worried to Death

[Max1234W]

Hi,

 

I'm in need of some serious help. I am facing a gross misconduct hearing, the allegation is that I violated the companies internet policy by loking at indecent material. I have been suspended whilst it is investigated. All I know at this point is that I was using the internet to sort a problem with my Iphone, absolutely everyone uses the internet for personal use and no-one says anything. I remember clicking a link and a dodgy popup came up, I say dodgy, it was a girl in a bra, above waste photo about the size of a postage stamp. I thought nothing of it and shut it down. Next thing I know, an investigation is under way into gross misconduct. Penalty for being guilty is dismissle. I'm so nervous I have forgotten how to spell

 

I have a mortgage and kids and this will ruin us.

 

What am I best doing, get a Barrister, head in the sand? I have 6 years flawless service. Can this really be deemed gross misconduct for 1 second of in-attention?

[meols cop]

Does the Company have an Internet Policy and have you been shown it?

 

What is the Security like on the Companys computers if its lax, and it sounds like it is arent they to blame.

[elche]

Hi Max, and welcome to CAG.

 

Firstly forget the barrister for now, in any event a solicitor is the person that you should normally instruct first, not a barrister.

 

I assume the suspension is with pay?

 

6 years service, is a good cushion / bargaining chip. Do you have any current 'legal' sanctions on your personnel file? - assuming not, then IF the facts are as you relate them I prefer your case to their's should you end up in ET

[elche]

Hi Max, and welcome to CAG,

 

I have a mortgage and kids and this will ruin us.

What am I best doing, get a Barrister,

Firstly forget the barrister for now, in any event a solicitor is the person that you should normally instruct first, not a barrister.

 

I have 6 years flawless service. Can this really be deemed gross misconduct?

 

I assume the suspension is with pay?

 

6 years service, is a good cushion / bargaining chip. Do you have any current 'legal' disciplinary sanctions on your personnel file ( e.g 'legally' administered verbal warnings or written warnings)? - assuming not, then IF the facts are as you relate them I prefer your case to their's should you end up in ET

 

ET;s do not like GM dismissals - lets think a minute what an act of GM is - Namely an act of misconduct SO serious that it goes to the HEART, or the employment contract and shatters it beyond belief ..... a reflection of this often being demonstrated by an impossibility to continue wit the contract when the employer became aware.

 

Two sides to every story ... an all that, and I am a bit of a Luddite, but on a semi-retired, 'no win no fee' basis if the facts are as you describe them and, IF (which we hope not) you are dismissed, your case seems good.

 

Can you get some personal advice, CAB, Law Center, Union, any legal expense insurance policy etc.

 

 

Good luck

 

che

[rebel11]

Good advice from elche, I wouldn't worry, if matters are as described. Might be an idea to start a log of events that you can refer to later.

Also get hold of the employee handbook. Don't forget you can appeal matters. Just as a matter of interest, when is the last time the company dismissed someone?

[Max1234W]

Yes gross misconduct has been used twice to my knowledge. Once for someone drink driving their company car into a living room, fair enough. The other was for someone urinating throughout a hotel during a training course provided by work after having had many beers, again fair enough. That was a year ago.

 

My record is excellent, there is nothing formal on my file, for anything other than car insurance claims. I was on holiday once and my car was damaged, second time someone hit me in the back minor damage that insurance claim wasn't even filed as the cost was below the excess. I have one word in my shell regarding my attitude but that was 18 months ago and later found to be a load of rubbish, again nothing formal.

[Max1234W]

Good point, home insurance has legal cover for things like this.

[Max1234W]

Nope, home insurance excludes disciplinary hearings.

[Max1234W]

Apologies, it is just short of 5 years service, I am so wound up I cannot concentrate. Suspended with pay.

 

Yes we have an internet policy, never been communicated, nothing ever is, fairly clear, no porn, usual stuff. The website I was on was clearly about Iphone's not big knockers dot com or something smutty. I'm actually assuming this as I have not had details yet.

 

I have nothing on my file, my performance reviews are always good.

 

Only thing that is negative. I have 3 records in terms of cars insurance claims. All 3 not my fault, car damaged whilst parked perfectly legally, 1 hit in back, damage so small, excess was greater than claim so was told to drop it, 3rd again hit in the back at traffic lights, such a small nudge there was no damage and no claim.

[Uncertain]

Nope, home insurance excludes disciplinary hearings.

 

It will do because you don't have a legal right to take a solicitor to an internal disciplinary hearing or an appeal. Very few companies would let you do so. Your legal right is to a work colleague of your choice or an accredited trade union representative.

 

That said your legal expenses insurance will no doubt provide telephone advice so it would be worth contacting them and talking it through.

 

Should the firm dismiss you (and I would think this most unlikely) your legal insurance would cover taking them to an employment tribunal and representing you there.

 

I would prepare a clear written statement of what happened, talk it through with the telephone advice, and then present this at the disciplinary hearing with your apology.

 

Keep careful written notes of everything that has happened just in case they are needed later.

[meols cop]

The car insurances have no bearing on this case and should not be used at your hearing.

 

If the Company havent shown you the Policy, how do you know whats on it? Is it heresay? Because they cannot use a Policy against you that you havent been shown.

[geoff1248]

Max

If the company is able to track your internet usage and the sites you visited they will also be able to track the amount of time you spent on the "dodgy" site.

If, as you say, you clicked off the site very quickly then it will be obvious that you clicked on a link in error. However, if you stayed on the site for more than a few seconds (idle curiosity) them you may have breached their internet policy.

They should be able to provide details of all the sites you visited during your session and the time spent on each site.

Can they prove with 100% certainty they it was actually you who visited this site rather than another member of staff using your computer?

[Max1234W]

Geoff, good point, I left my computer unlocked and people do jump on them. To be honest I don't think that happened, is it worth claiming someone else used my machine/I left it unattended? Try to apologise etc? This is not geat on it's own I know, but with my good record is it enough. My concern is that I don't know who's internet service I was using? I was in a remote office and to be fair, I could be using any number of companies services, you can connect any laptop and they have full net access? If you were being devious, surley a person would use their personal laptop. Some individuals spend all day on Facebook, ebay and nothing ever happens.

 

I still don't understand why I have been selected? People waste whole days, I don't. I'm hoping the tracking software is as you say? But wouldn't saying I left my laptop unattended/locked look even worse?

[geoff1248]

Is leaving your PC unattended and unlocked while at your place of work classed as Gross Misconduct? If not then by all means admit to this lesser "charge" but it is up to the Company to prove that it was actually you using the machine and not another member of staff while you left the PC unattended.

At this stage you do not have to say/admit anything. However it would be very interesting to know which member of staff decided that a picture of a girl wearing a bra is "indecent material". I would suggest that if any women work at your place they will bring mags. into work with similar pictures in them.

So rather than argue the toss over whether you did or did not do what you are accused of I would argue that a girl in a bra is not "indecent material". Indeed I can remember very large hoardings advertising Wonder Bra a few years ago. Was this indecent......

[Max1234W]

Geoff, you make yet more good points, however I do not know how this whole thing came about, what's worse is that anonymity is guaranteed to a complainant. This is what is bugging me, we have one women who wasn’t there on the day? I have a small office that no-one can see into. So how did someone make a complaint? It must be monitoring software that we have not been told about? Or someone has walked into my office and done it deliberately?

My concern is that HR have had a re-shuffle and they are entirely female bar one African man, they made the whole white male staff redundant. You make a good point about wonderbra, it’s no worse than walking into a Marks and Spencer store, they have women in underwear plastered all over every wall and no-one believes that is defamatory.

It just feels utterly wrong, I’m missing something, just don’t know what?

So my plan of action is to keep a diary of events, review all policies and come up with plausible explanations for everything? But this is all pie in the sky until I know what I’m accused of?

[honeybee13]

Hello Max. For my sins I am female and I would like to counsel you, if I may, against going in too gung-ho on the sexist tack. I'm not saying who's right or who's wrong, but it would be nice if the people you're dealing with took a balanced view.

 

I agree with what you say, keep a detailed diary, it can't go amiss.

 

If not, post again, we'll help.

 

HB x

[Max1234W]

HoneyBee, my apologies, perhaps my fury is boiling over. I love women, I married one and had 1 more. I have at all times stated facts. I work in an environment where women are rare, only in HR and Accounts. I keep feelings inside at work and I will keep my mind clear.

[honeybee13]

No problem . Good luck with it, keep us posted. HB x

[Max1234W]

Little to report, I've not heard of anything yet, a friend has offerred to photograph calenders on walls etc at work which contain pictures of girls not wearing much. Do I take him up on this offer? It would compare I suppose to my "misconduct" or just drop everyone in it?

[geoff1248]

Max

Yes, photographs would be useful but remember that you do not know yet exactly what you are being accused of. Make sure that your friend is not seen taking the photographs.

I know that it is frustrating for you at the moment but just bide your time until a few more details are available.

Also keep in mind what Honeybee said and don't assume that the "sisterhood" are out to get you.

[Max1234W]

Good advice, I've asked for absolution for my sins on Sunday.

 

I'm being chased for all sorts of things, no-one seems to of noticed I'm missing yet? Phone is just off now.

[honeybee13]

Hang on in there, Max. Being patient is the hardest bit and of course, you've got all the time in the world to think about it, I imagine.

 

HB x

[Max1234W]

Just an update, friends sent photo's of many similar infractions plus some actual criminal damage some have caused. I still have nothing, guess it could take some time.

 

Honey Bee, I hope you wern't up for my sake this morning.

[honeybee13]

With the best will in the world Max, I just couldn't sleep and it was very annoying, but I'm sure if I knew more about you, I could have been awake thinking about you .

 

I think the photos can only add to your case. I hope someone else turns up on the forum later on, because the responsiblity is too much for me this evening. Well anytime alone, actually. I'm just an apprentice here on Employment.

 

For now can I just send big hugs?

 

HB x

[Max1234W]

If you were awake, fearful of nodding off and damp with sweat, chances are you were thinking about me. Hugs are greatfully received, answers too.

 

Perhaps I can add to the forum with my expertise, might make me feel happier.