Business account over 19,000 in bank charges.** SETTLED IN FULL ***

[HSBCrusher]

Wow.

 

Just come across this thread. What a story.

 

Does your £25 grand claim include any interest that you will be charging? It should, and you can charge a hefty rate.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/18313-why-no-one-claiming.html

This is going to be a whopper!

This will go multi track, its above the 15K limit. The thing is that this is very unlikely to ever get to court for that very reason.... disclosure would be demanded, meaning that the bank would have to fully disclose all the costs, there is very little chance of you ever setting foot in court.

 

 

Crusher:D

[dolfos]

Wow!

I am so grateful for all your words of support and fantastic optimism and advice. Have spoke to IP and he is now sending out letters to all the creditors he believes all will agree to 50:50 and he is extremely interested in this website as he believes many of his clients who are in IVA's and have run business's may very well be able to use this approach of getting back monies unlawfully taken. All creditors have the opportunity to vote but he really does not think there will be an issue as all will want to get more. The 25 grand figure is purely made up of charges no interest has been included in this figure. I am going to look into the contractual rate thread though.

We have been told if we get the monies back and give the IVA 50% to settle it now we would have to put in another approx 6 grand. All figure are being sent in writing by our IP so will let u know once I have these. We are also going after the business credit cards with MBNA and capital one who are also in the IVA although for much smaller amounts. We have to go after all the charges at the same time.( not necessarily in one go) but we can not claim against HSBC now and then go for a business credit card also in the IVA at a later date. It all has to be disclosed as to who we are going after and roughly for how much upfront. I can see there point in this and we have no qualms in doing this, HSBC are our main goal but while we are at it we certainly will not let the others through the net.

I am awaiting the green light from the IP which will be as soon as we have his letter regarding the creditor’s reaction to the 50:50 split. I have done the sums as he has and he agrees as do I they will be silly to turn this down as they will get more.

I can see why people are saying to go for it in one go, I was thinking of doing the 1st year for approx 2500 K first and using this to set the precedent. If and when we get this go for the rest as how can they pay out for one year and then say no to the rest. This is just my cautious side to dip our toes in water first and check the temperature. Also protecting us from potential costs. HSBC are going to be given the heads up on our intentions so if they will defend they will do so from the beginning.

THANKS AGAIN TO EVERYONE :-)

[sarahpp]

There will be plenty of us watching your thread and wishing you well.

 

I understand what you mean about keeping the claims in under 5k batches to avoid costs.

 

I am glad you are looking at the contractual rate thread. I would have thought that the reciprocity argument carried even more weight when it was business to business but, that is just my opinion obviously.

 

Best of Luck

 

Sarah

[doryphor]

As with many before, I'd like to add my words of encouragement, support, sympathy, and hope. As with many things, there are two sides to this coin (just thought what an ironic cliché, given the financial nature of this discussion!). The first side has passed - the charges, the problems. The flip-side, to borrow our American friends' phrase, is the future, the refunds, the solution. From everything I've read on this site, things can only get better. (Where are all these references coming from?!)

 

Good luck.

 

Doryphor

[dolfos]

Hi just a quick query i am trying to find out the contractual interest for HSBC business account. I have been researchingthrough their website and fouund for unauthorised overdraft it is 23.8% EAR + 2 pound a working day. Does this mean I just change the 8% in the spreadsheet when i eventually get to this stage to 23.8% any help? Am i completely off track with this?

thanks

[HSBCrusher]

...

[dolfos]

What so from the start i add on the 23.8% and then if and it probably will go as far as court claim i file this I then add on another 8%. Will this be the case even if Ido an initial claim for the first year and then go for rest on result of this? Blimey, how come not many people do mention/go for this one?

thanks for quick responce, I am not yet at this stage but wanted to get it all in my head straight first. Still waiting on response from IP from creditors regarding 50:50 split. That's one thing I have found when it comes to the IVA things seem to take time but atleast I know this way it's all above board and correct.

Can't wait to see how much this 23.8% will take it too, HSBC are not gonna like it one bit! (Shame:rolleyes: )

:D

[sarahpp]

The 8% you add on when you file the claim.

The 23.8% you get to add on now! tee hee!

 

I hate to disagree with HSBCrusher but, from the thead "why is no-one claiming the contractual rate of interest " it looks very much like you can't claim both the 23.8% and 8%. According to the thread (and these people have done a lot of homework) the 8% is in effect a default rate which can be used when the real rate is not known.

 

You should mention both in your preliminary and LBA that you are claiming the contractual rate of interest.

 

Vampiress has constructed contractual spreadsheets in her chambers.

 

In view of the size of this claim and the importance of getting it right I would suggest that you post on the contractual rate thread mentioned above and ask the experts on there to have a look at your thread.

 

It is really important to get the particulars of claim right as well and there is some discussion and also some useful links on the last couple of pages about this.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Sarah

[HSBCrusher]

sarah/dolfos, got my figs a bit wrong there methinks.

 

yep, ignore the 8% completley.

 

go for the higher rate, you claim this at the beginning.

 

(I have been doing the 8% up to now, and just getting my head around the higher rate thing... shame because I have been through 7 claims so far and missed out on all that lovely interest! My next one has got the compound interest on it.....)

[sarahpp]

sarah/dolfos, got my figs a bit wrong there methinks.

 

yep, ignore the 8% completley.

 

go for the higher rate, you claim this at the beginning.

 

(I have been doing the 8% up to now, and just getting my head around the higher rate thing... shame because I have been through 7 claims so far and missed out on all that lovely interest! My next one has got the compound interest on it.....)

 

Just started out on a spreadsheet for compouded contractual - a bit daunting but, I am sure I will figure it out. It will definately be worth it!!!!

[furndire]

I've just read your thread - that must have been a hell of a worry. I had a small business until March, my rent almost doubled, and that was when I decided enough was enough. I hope you get every penny back and compound interest with it.

[HSBCrusher]

Just started out on a spreadsheet for compouded contractual - a bit daunting but, I am sure I will figure it out. It will definately be worth it!!!!

thanks to vamp for the spreadsheets....

I'd be utterly lost without them.

 

 

I have no doubt whatsoever that this money will be repaid.

And I can see a fair bit of media interest coming along.

[dolfos]

Thanks to both of you for information. I have looked at the spreadsheets on vampiress's chambers. Is it the the one with contractual rate throughout or compounded contractual rate. Sorry if making you reapeat yourselves I was looking at the one with just contractual rate.

[sarahpp]

I am using the compounded contractual rate dolfos.

[sarahpp]

Dolfos

 

I have just prepared spreadsheets for two Nationwide accounts. The charges were around £2700 but, they were about 5 years ago so, the contractual interest brings the total up to £9500!. I mention this because I was going to submit 3 separate claims but, Dolly pointed out that I would be better off doing them all in one because the court may throw out multiple claims made at later dates as "frivolous".

 

I have read around a bit more. The thread "Glenn vs Abbey" is particularly useful as far as this issue is concerned and I have decided to put a claim in for the whole amount.

 

I mention this because I know that it was an issue which concerned you also.

 

Hope things are going ok

 

Sarah

[doryphor]

How does the interest make it so much more? When I changed the 8% calculation to the 16% it just doubled the interest charge (which seems obvious to me, but maybe I'm doing something wrong). Is changing the 8% to 16% (which is the contractual rate I have with HSBC) correct?

 

Cheers

[sarahpp]

How does the interest make it so much more? When I changed the 8% calculation to the 16% it just doubled the interest charge (which seems obvious to me, but maybe I'm doing something wrong). Is changing the 8% to 16% (which is the contractual rate I have with HSBC) correct?

 

Cheers

 

I used the compounded contractual interest spreadsheet from Vampiress's chambers. Basically, you will be doing what the banks are doing and charging interest on the interest if you see what I mean. Why is your rate for HSBC so low ?-you are charging the Unauthorised Overdraft Rate aren't you?

 

 

Hope this helps

 

Sarah

[HSBCrusher]

The unauthorised rate is about 16% for HSBC.

[sarahpp]

The unauthorised rate is about 16% for HSBC.

 

 

Blimey! - 24.9% for Nationwide

[HSBCrusher]

yeah, HSBC is one of the cheapest.

In fact, its 15.8%, and the spreadsheet rounds it up to 16%)

 

(hard to believe I know!!!! )

[dolfos]

This rate of 15.8% is that for business accounts too. The rate I found was on a money expert website. i couldn't find it on the HSBC website even though staff told me it was on there and over the phone and in the branch were able to give it to me.

[dolfos]

Just a quick update ready to send DPA letters to 3 other credit card companies within the IVA as IP(insolvencey practioner) wants full disclosure of charges we are trying to claim back before we go ahead for HSBC (and others) sending off recorded delivery tomorow. Now just got to wait for info to come in to present to IP. Hopefully by then we will also have an answer from the creditors too.

[dolfos]

yeah, HSBC is one of the cheapest.

In fact, its 15.8%, and the spreadsheet rounds it up to 16%)

 

(hard to believe I know!!!! )

 

Hiya,

any thought with regards if this also applies to business accounts as still not sure of info I found of 23%

 

anyone????

[andrew1]

Dolfos this is amazing. Just a thought, whilst you are sorting all the charges remember all the 'consequetial loss' you have suffered as a result of these charges ie: selling your home and all those kind of other financial losses. Your solicitor will no doubt advise on this but your claim could be massive.

 

Good luck.

 

.

[dolfos]

Ok,

Need some clearance as trying to get my head around the Liquidated Damages Clauses and Penalties in Commercial Contracts.

Just so I know

a) when it refers to liquidated damages we are using the term liquidated as it is not something a judge has been involved in deciding is that right?

b)

In order to be enforceable however such liquidated damages clauses may not be penal in nature. In Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage Co Ltd [1915] AC 79 (House of Lords) the court decided that a liquidated damages clause would be considered a penalty and unenforceable where the sum to be paid by the defendant was ‘extravagant and unconscionable in amount in comparison with the greatest loss that could conceivably be provided to have followed from the breach’. Does this mean at the VERY point of breach ie returning cheque/ SO recall etc or does it mean longterm possibilities. IE now we are in IVA HSBC could state they have incurred loss as they are only getting so much in the pound?

 

Does anyone know what happens as far as outstanding debts are concerned to HSBC once they hand it to debt collection. in our case the loan was handed over to metropolitan who I believe solely deal with HSBC debt. Do they buy the debt off HSBC so in effect the money in the pound goes to them not HSBC, are they run seperately. Do HSBC have insurances of their own to cover losses such as these. Would us being in an IVA be a valid defence for HSBC to use against repayment of charges, even though we could have gone bankcrupt and not even make an effort to pay back something to them?

All these questions are going round and round in my head can anyone help in any of these areas??

(this is what happens when I have time to myself i just keep thinking about all what ifs!)

have just done spreadsheet for 2 years charges for HSBC business account 2002 and 2003. Goning to break claim into two. First claim for these two years amounts to 10,819.16UKP.

Although this takes it out of small claims it should restrict legal costs if we lose to 750UKP is that correct?