HSBC Loan PPI

[dx100uk]

sri me understandi now

 

dx

[MA6395]

you say in red in post 63 its hfc - this is important i kid you not.

 

now who is it, who's name is on the agreement and where/how did you take them out

 

and just to carry on from what shadow hinted at -

 

which is again why i suspect it IS HFC is that they only hold 'basic account details' -

which is what they have revealed, however they will not hold the agreements,

as they will claim [and i've yet to sadly prove they are telling fibs] the customer files were distroyed after 6yrs,

HFC claim to have routinely done this to ALL accounts from day one after 6yrs.

 

there are two other points that you need to know.

 

i strongly believe HFC didn't destroy any customer files until the time leading up to the fine that was levied by the FSA/FOS regarding PPI.

 

they often use, when talking to the FOS, the excuse of the many many company name changes & the 'mixture' 'merger' or cover up associated

with the beneficial finance/bank saga.

 

there are cases that i know where punters say went into a BF or BB branch and came out with loans on HFC paperwork

likewise the otherway around. they had to do a very quick and grand scale cover up.

 

oneday we'll get to the bottom of it, but i know it often used as a scape goat.

 

the other one that is well hidden is the midland bank/hfc saga. again 1000's of agreements and o/d etc were all unlawful

 

on that basis, they will always argue you have no case for a refund in any way shape or for, as they have no account notes to refer too.

 

 

 

dx

 

Very interested in hearing / reading more on HSBC /HFC/Beneficial bank saga....nay - rip offs.

I am experiencing everything you quote from both HSBC & GM/HFC.

Dont want to hijack this thread though - could you point me in the right direction please?

[moose73]

Update - Got an email today from the mediation service saying HSBC had not responded to mediation and so it would go to court now.

 

what do we think of this?

[moose73]

update - had the FOS on today, apologizing about their shoddy service and how they are no further on with it going to an adjudicator. (I had told them I would be complaining to the independant assessor).

 

any way, My court case will recommence on 1st March, and I only have 2 weeks after this to have all documents submitted. So what do I need to do now? (I know about the witness statement, but what else?)

 

I was also wondering if to send a letter to HSBC for a lower settlement (maybe PPI without the 8% interest) as per the judges orders (post 69 item No 4)?

[Old Cogger]

Way HSBC are going, will they turn up at court? makes you wonder as case is not straight forward for them.

[moose73]

they didn't turn up at the previous hearing, but the judge let them off. They were trying to set the hearing at 1 hour, but the judge has allocated 1 day! that can't be cheap for them?

[Old Cogger]

At cost if to them, will they bother cost for a full day? or give in as I would guess, sort of: -S? forgot the word for now, but if they anticipate they will loose, the less cost to them the better!

[moose73]

witness statement, will this be ok?

 

 

 

 

_________________________________

 

 

 

Witness Statement

 

 

 

_________________________________

 

 

 

1. I, the Claimant, am a Litigant in Person in this case.

 

2. I make this Statement in support of my claim against the Defendant for the refund of mis-sold Payment Protection Insurance premiums and the interest thereon, levied to my loan by the Defendant.

 

3. I make this Statement from information and facts of which I am aware and which I believe to be true.

 

4. I signed a Personal Loan agreement with the Defendant on 12th April 2001.

(CRT1)

 

5. An employee of the Defendant talked me through Payment Protection Insurance. I informed the employee I was in stable employment in an industry where redundancy is unheard of. My employer also provides a death in service benefit and a generous sickness policy which would make any additional insurance unnecessary.

(CRT2)

 

6. The Defendant’s employee informed that the Payment Protection Insurance would be a condition of the Loan. I felt I had no choice but to sign the Loan Agreement.

 

7. I, the Claimant did not at any point fill out an Income Protection Needs Form.

 

8. I did not complete a Needs and Benefit form and I was not asked about my personal medical history or family members medical history.

 

9. On 19th February 2010 I wrote to the Defendant, setting out the nature of my complaint and requesting that the Defendant refund the mis-sold insurance and the interest which had been added to it.

(CRT 3)

 

10. Upon receiving an unsatisfactory response from the Defendant, I again wrote to the Defendant on the 11th March 2010 requesting a refund of said charges and advised them I would file a claim should I not receive a satisfactory response.

 

11. On the 20th April 2010, I filed a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman Service, only to be told they could not deal with this complaint as the loan was taken before July 2001 when their jurisdiction came into force. This is contrary to the defendants defence item 19 which states I didn’t wait for their determination before commencing these proceedings. The case with the Financial Ombudsman Service was cancelled on 16/02/2011 due to the case not being assigned due to the amount of complaints for missold PPI being made.

 

12. Upon receiving a further unsatisfactory response from the Defendant, I filed a claim at Chorley county court on 27th May 2010 for the return of the charges levied by the Defendant, as particularised and detailed in the Particulars of Claim.

 

13. The Defendant acknowledged service of the claim on 11th June 2010.

 

14. The Defendant filed their defence on 5th July 2010.

 

15. The Defendant maintains the insurance was optional, but at no time did they inform me of this. I refer back to paragraph 6 above.

 

16. There is, in fact, no requirement to take Payment Protection Insurance with the Defendant’s Bank and I therefore claim I had been misrepresented and that there had been concealment aimed at increasing revenue through PPI commissions.

 

17. On the 18th January, I attended Chorley County Court for a pre hearing to determine any directions and the length of hearing only for HSBC not to attend but instead call by phone which is against the courts rules.

 

18. Chorley County Court issued directions which stayed the case for mediation to take place using the courts mediation service. I contacted and agreed to use this service only to be told that HSBC had not responded.

 

19. On the 16th February, I wrote to HSBC to try and settle this by agreeing to negotiate a lower amount of the PPI that I had previously paid and not any statutory interest again as per the courts directions (No 4)

 

Summary

17. The Claimant believes the Defendant mis-sold the insurance. Indeed the FSA have shown that PPI is very often mis-sold, and in the case of the Defendant, has awarded a fine.

The OFT, FSA and indeed the Competition Commissioners Office have been very concerned over the behaviour of the financial institutions with respect to PPI policies. As such most financial institutions are now refunding mis-sold PPI. Where this has not been repaid, there are many cases where either the fos of county court, have ruled in favour of the Claimant.

 

Conclusion

18. The Defendant mis-sold Payment Protection Insurance to the Claimant in order to maximise profits at the Claimant’s expense. As such, the Claimant requests all premiums including the interest on those premiums be refunded. In addition the Claimant seeks at the discretion of the Court costs relative to the amount of time wasted. It is the understanding of the claimant that some county court Judges are fully aware of this behaviour by the financial institutions and that costs may be awarded in these cases.

 

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

19. I, the Claimant, believe the facts stated within this Statement to be true.

 

Signed:

[dx100uk]

pers i would not try for a lower settlement out of hsbc

 

thety owe you cough up!

 

can you scan up those agreements?

 

dx

[kate999]

Subbing - all the best! Fascinating!

[MARTIN3030]

I would say that from experience,that Banks and Fsp's legal teams may seek to frustrate process by undermining time,but if you are well prepared and put your case over,and are allowed to do so,then any trial times as informed,will run over at the discretion of the Judge.

I had one hearing which was listed for 1 hour but only concluded after 4.

Another was listed for 2 hours and went on for 3 and half.

Lets be clear also on the points being made here in respect of banks costs.

They have unlimited resources and so we should not be thinking of their costs.

In any event in SCT they have nothing to worry about since ant result will not give any precadent.

Therefore if your case has merit then you have no need to give discounts.

You are not obliged to accept any mediation offers either.

Personally I would not give them an inch-but up to you.

[moose73]

tried to get a solicitor on board, and 4 of the 5 I called, didn't want to know as it was under £5k and therefore their costs wern't recoverable. The 5th quoted £200 per hour!

[moose73]

Original HSBC Agreement

hsbc1.pdf

[Old Cogger]

You go for the lot of interest no haggling, do not show signs of weakness with them, they will try Limitation Exercise to cut their loses no doubt.

[caro]

I agree, now is not the time to show weakness.

 

You need to prepare a court bundle. You need 5 copies, 1 for you, 1 for the court, 1 for HSBC, and the 2 extras are to take to court in case either of them say they haven't got what you sent them.

 

All documents will need to be numbered and indexed.

 

The kind of things you need will be:-

 

• Copies of any documents and correspondence to/from HSBC regarding your PPI.
  
• Copies of any statutes you're relying on in your POC and/or witness statement.
  
• Copies of OFT, Competition Commission and FSA documents to back up what you've said in your WS.
  
• Info on the case of Yates & Another v Nemo Personal Finance Limited & Another (I'll see if it's possible to get a copy of the judgement but if not this will point you in the right direction. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?273420-PPI-win-in-Court
  
• There are PPI codes of practice and other documents you may find useful here:- http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index.php/PPI:_Documents_for_Bundle#Useful_Documents_for_PPI_Bundles
  
• A schedule of the amount you're claiming, with uptodate interest.
  

There may well be other things people can think of, but basically anything that will help your case should be included.

[moose73]

Thank you Caro, this is very helpful.

 

I received a letter from Ms Mattu at HSBC this morning asking me to discontinue the claim against the bank! this letter says the claim is stature barred due to being more than 6 years after closure of the loan. My understanding is that the 6 years is from when I found out about the mis selling which was last year?

 

should I put this in the witness statement?

 

I was thinking of writing back to point this out, and attaching the witness statement.

 

Also the judge ordered:

6) Each party must deliver to every other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which that party intends to rely at the hearing no later than 4pm on Tuesday, 15th March 2011

so do I send all the info in post 90?

[Old Cogger]

Follow the Judges directions I would suggest, see if others agree. HSBC are trying to lead you up the garden path by the looks of it, one day they will pay for their mis- deeds if there is anybody in real authority around with out hands in their pockets.

[caro]

I agree. By all means draft your witness statement now if you wish, but it would be worth continuing to research and seeing if there is more that you can add.

 

I suggest that you simply write back to HSBC explaining that it is less than 6 years since you discovered that the policy was mis-sold so you will be continuing to court, unless they wish to settle the claim without the need to waste any more of the courts time on this matter.

 

And most definitely make sure that you cover the issue in your witness statement quoting the relevant section(s) and don't forget to include copies in your court bundle.

 

Don't just quote things you don't understand though. Use your time wisely and read things like the Limitations Act so that you have a good understanding of it when you get to court.

[dx100uk]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/58/contents

 

sec 32c

 

dx

[caro]

Thanks dx.

[moose73]

I am just about to send the witness statement. Do I include/attach documents I am refering to (limitations act etc) or is that for the court bundle?

[moose73]

just read the judges directions again, and it says to send any documentation that will be relied on at the hearing, so I guess thats everything. Do I index these in the witness statement at the end?

 

 

_________________________________

 

 

 

Witness Statement

 

 

 

_________________________________

 

 

 

1. I, the Claimant, am a Litigant in Person in this case.

 

2. I make this Statement in support of my claim against the Defendant for the refund of mis-sold Payment Protection Insurance premiums and the interest thereon, levied to my loan by the Defendant.

 

3. I make this Statement from information and facts of which I am aware and which I believe to be true.

 

4. I signed a Personal Loan agreement with the Defendant on 12th April 2001.

(RG1)

 

 

 

5. An employee of the Defendant talked me through Payment Protection Insurance. I informed the employee I was in stable employment in an industry where redundancy is unheard of. My employer also provides a death in service benefit and a generous sickness policy which would make any additional insurance unnecessary.

(RG2)

 

6. The Defendant’s employee informed that the Payment Protection Insurance would be a condition of the Loan. I felt I had no choice but to sign the Loan Agreement.

 

7. I, the Claimant did not at any point fill out an Income Protection Needs Form.

 

8. I did not complete a Needs and Benefit form and I was not asked about my personal medical history or family members medical history.

 

9. On 19th February 2010 I wrote to the Defendant, setting out the nature of my complaint and requesting that the Defendant refund the mis-sold insurance and the interest which had been added to it.

(RG 3)

 

10. Upon receiving an unsatisfactory response from the Defendant, I again wrote to the Defendant on the 11th March 2010 requesting a refund of said charges and advised them I would file a claim should I not receive a satisfactory response.

(RG4)

 

11. On the 20th April 2010, I filed a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman Service, only to be told they could not deal with this complaint as the loan was taken before July 2001 when their jurisdiction came into force. This is contrary to the defendants defence item 19 which states I didn’t wait for their determination before commencing these proceedings. The case with the Financial Ombudsman Service was cancelled on 16/02/2011 due to the case not being assigned due to the amount of complaints for missold PPI being made.

 

12. Upon receiving a further unsatisfactory response from the Defendant, I filed a claim at Chorley county court on 27th May 2010 for the return of the charges levied by the Defendant, as particularised and detailed in the Particulars of Claim.

 

13. The Defendant acknowledged service of the claim on 11th June 2010.

 

 

 

14. The Defendant filed their defence on 5th July 2010.

 

15. The Defendant maintains the insurance was optional, but at no time did they inform me of this. I refer back to paragraph 6 above.

 

16. There is, in fact, no requirement to take Payment Protection Insurance with the Defendant’s Bank and I therefore claim I had been misrepresented and that there had been concealment aimed at increasing revenue through PPI commissions.

 

17. On the 18th January, I attended Chorley County Court for a pre hearing to determine any directions and the length of hearing only for HSBC not to attend but instead call by phone which is against the courts rules.

 

18. On the 21st January 2011, I received the defendants skeleton argument and draft instructions which had been sent to the court but not myself. This was referred to by the judge. I also received a letter telling me that HSBC would not be appearing at court but would use conference call instead and asking me to provide details for me to use the same. Note - this was 3 days AFTER the hearing.

 

19. Chorley County Court issued directions which stayed the case for mediation to take place using the courts mediation service. I contacted and agreed to use this service only to be told that HSBC had not responded.

(RG5)

 

20. On the 16th February, I wrote to HSBC to try and settle this by agreeing to negotiate a lower amount in full and final settlement again as per the courts directions (No 4), but this was declined. Also the defendant requested me to stop the claim on the grounds of my claim being stature barred (in their opinion). I wrote back referring them to Sec 32 of the Limitations act 1980, but didn’t receive a reply to this letter.

(RG6, 7 & 8 )

 

 

 

Summary

21. The Claimant believes the Defendant mis-sold the insurance. Indeed the FSA have shown that PPI is very often mis-sold, and in the case of the Defendant, I believe this to be the case.

The OFT, FSA and indeed the Competition Commissioners Office have been very concerned over the behaviour of the financial institutions with respect to PPI policies. As such most financial institutions are now refunding mis-sold PPI. Where this has not been repaid, there are many cases where either the fos of county court, have ruled in favour of the Claimant.

 

Conclusion

22. The Defendant mis-sold Payment Protection Insurance to the Claimant in order to maximise profits at the Claimant’s expense. As such, the Claimant requests all premiums including the interest on those premiums be refunded. In addition the Claimant seeks at the discretion of the Court costs relative to the amount of time wasted. It is the understanding of the claimant that some county court Judges are fully aware of this behaviour by the financial institutions and that costs may be awarded in these cases.

 

where do I put the other documents refered to in the PPI court bundle?

 

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

23. I, the Claimant, believe the facts stated within this Statement to be true.

 

Signed:

Edited March 1, 2011 by moose73

[jon_boy75]

watching with interest...all the best

[moose73]

This is a list of documents that I have refered to either in the POCs or the WS:

 

• Agreement
  
• Schedule of payments/interest
  
• CCA 1974
  
• Work contract showing I had adequate sick and death insurance
  
• Supply of goods and services act 1982
  
• Banking Code
  
• OFT Guidelines
  
• FSA Handbook
  
• Financial services and markets act 2000
  
• CPR18
  
• human rights act 1998 (not sure about this now)
  
• limitation Act 1980 (Refered to this in my last letter to HSBC only)
  
• Kleinwort Benson V Lincoln City Council 1999 (Refered to this in my last letter to HSBC only)
  
• Yates v Nemo (not refered to this anywhere)
  
• Howard marine v A Ogden (not refered to this anywhere)
  
• Conflicts of interest (not refered to this anywhere)
  
• PPI codes of practice
  

So do I copy these in full (this would be 1000s of pages?) and append to the witness statement and send to court, HSBC etc?

Edited March 1, 2011 by moose73

[freakyleaky]

Hi. Yes any documents you state you will be relying on have to be sent in full as part of your court bundle (Both to the court and to HSBC sols). I think my last one was around 300 pages.

Are you sure it runs to 1000's?