Can I report bailiff for fraud??

[seanamarts]

This is NOT true seanamarts.

 

A bailiff does NOT need to be invited in.

You have taken that totally out of context HCE, You know full well what I meant, a bailiff can only enter by peaceful means only, that does not mean he can place his foot over the threshold preventing you from closing the door. The law states that a bailiff has to leave when requested. Unless he has already done a WPO.

[seanamarts]

Thank you Welsh1. I have seen it said so many times that bailiffs have to be invited in on this forum. As you have showed, that is clearly a mistruth.

 

I am personally aware of a defendant that stated to a bailiff on the door that he was not invited in (they had read it on here!) and then walked off to get something. Accordingly, the bailiff walked in, legally and was now able to levy on the assets within the property.

 

Some posters on here should be very careful what they state as fact because they end up costing the very people they are trying to assist!

Like I said he has to leave when he/she is asked to leave the premises unless he has previously gained a peaceful entry, in this case he did not.

[welsh1]

To make things clear for everyone,if a bailiff has entered a property peacefully and legally,he does not have to leave the premises when requested.

 

I think the point you are trying to make is if the bailiff has acted illegally and entered the property illegally,then he should leave when requested.

 

So acting legally he does not have to get permission to enter your property,as long as he does it peacefully,and once he is in,you cannot make him leave.

So keep your doors locked.

[hallowitch]

you can ask a bailiff to leave your premises at any time and he must leave regardless of how he entered peaceful or not

 

the only exception to this would be if he has re-entered to remove goods previously levied

[welsh1]

you can ask a bailiff to leave your premises at any time and he must leave regardless of how he entered peaceful or not

 

the only exception to this would be if he has re-entered to remove goods previously levied

 

I am afraid you are wrong,following your logic,all you have to do once a bailiff walks through your door is ask him to leave and he will walk back out the door.

Think about it,how do bailiffs list goods and then get a walking possession signed,according to your logic they could never get further than your porch,as all you have do do is tell them to leave.Look through the forum,that is not happening.

[hallowitch]

no one has the right to stay on your premises if you ask them to leave

not even the police

Edited February 15, 2010 by hallowitch

[High Court Enforcer]

You have taken that totally out of context HCE, You know full well what I meant

 

seanamarts, sorry I'm not a mind reader, I read what you said and what you said was wrong.

 

Just like Hallowitch is when saying a bailiff has to leave when asked....

[welsh1]

I think you will find that they can stay there because they are executing a court order,i do not want to argue about this,and i have been down this road before",they cannot be deemed as a trespasser while executing a court warrant/order/writ"that is what i was told by the courts.

 

And as for the police,they may enter your premises with a warrant,or if a crime is being committed or is about to be committed,or a person has fled into your house while being pursued by the police.A breech of the peace counts as a crime being committed.

 

It is in everyone's interest to know that once a bailiff enters your property he will not leave,everyone should be aware of this fact,because saying anything else will not help anyone on this forum.

[seanamarts]

seanamarts, sorry I'm not a mind reader, I read what you said and what you said was wrong.

 

Just like Hallowitch is when saying a bailiff has to leave when asked....

if you bothered to read the whole thread you would have known what i was on about.. im presuming here that you are in one of your pedantic moods again and looking for an argument.... im done, i know im right on this one and your not going to try and twist it round tonight. tis a shame you wernt in court with me when the Judge clearly stated that when the bailiff overstepped his authority by forcing his way into my home I had every right to ask him to leave and he should have done so without question. I reiterate the point I was making as I dont seem to of made myself very clear on this. when a bailiff enters your home uninvited, in way of an illegal entry you have the right to ask him to leave the premises and he is to do so without question.

[welsh1]

To make things clear for everyone,if a bailiff has entered a property peacefully and legally,he does not have to leave the premises when requested.

 

I think the point you are trying to make is if the bailiff has acted illegally and entered the property illegally,then he should leave when requested.

 

So acting legally he does not have to get permission to enter your property,as long as he does it peacefully,and once he is in,you cannot make him leave.

So keep your doors locked.

 

I think i covered that a few posts ago:D

[hallowitch]

I think you will find that they can stay there because they are executing a court order,i do not want to argue about this,and i have been down this road before",they cannot be deemed as a trespasser while executing a court warrant/order/writ"that is what i was told by the courts.

 

 

I don't disagree with that if you read some of my post i have said that a bailiff doesn't commit trespass if he has a court /warrant/order/etc

 

 

if a bailiff is in your home performing a levy and you don't feel comfortable(the situation that comes to mind was when the bailiff couldn't see past the 36 D bust) in a situation like that you can ask him to leave it doesn't make the levy invalid but he should leave

 

 

and if the police are there to make general enquirers and you are not happy with the questions you can ask them to leave then they must leave if they want to question you further then they should take you the station i said nothing about the police executing a warrant

 

If you don't feel comfortable with the situation you have every right to ask them to leave your home especially if you are on your own and feel threatened or intimidated

[seanamarts]

 

 

if a bailiff is in your home performing a levy and you don't feel comfortable(the situation that comes to mind was when the bailiff couldn't see past the 36 D bust) in a situation like that you can ask him to leave it doesn't make the levy invalid but he should leave

 

 

and if the police are there to make general enquirers and you are not happy with the questions you can ask them to leave then they must leave if they want to question you further then they should take you the station i said nothing about the police executing a warrant

 

If you don't feel comfortable with the situation you have every right to ask them to leave your home especially if you are on your own and feel threatened or intimidated

i think i have read that somewhere, will try and relocate it..when i do i will post it up

[welsh1]

Hallowich,

I can see what you are trying to say,and if you have a lecherous bailiff it would be awful,but he simply will not leave just because you ask him to.And this is what i am trying to make very clear,there is nothing that can make him leave if he has acted legally entering the property.He will only leave when he has completed his job.

 

I also gave very specific points as to when the police could come into your house uninvited.

I fully agree with you on the point about them making general enquiries and being asked to leave,yes they should leave when asked in this scenario.

 

 

Just because you do not feel comfortable with a bailiff in your house(and who would) is not a reason why he would leave,even if you are on your own,if the debt is in your name it would be you he would want to talk to.

 

I can see that you do not want to accept the truth,but that is the truth,and when you continue to post urban myths about the bailiff having to leave when you ask them to,somewhere down the line a cagger will follow your advice and possibly find themselves in more of a problem than they anticipated,possibly costing them money.

 

You have to use logic to follow these events through,not emotions,good hard facts get results not hearsay.

 

Anyway i need some beauty sleep,so i wish you all a good night.

[seanamarts]

Oh and lets not forget here that a bailiff must withdraw from a premises when there is a child under the age of 18 years old.

A 'male' bailiff must also withdraw from a premises if a lone female is present and feels vulnerable, this is to not only protect the female but the bailiff as well incase of any allegations made towards him. I have this written down and this is not word for word but when I get it scanned I will place on here.

[welsh1]

The information about the age of children is on the government website link I gave earlier,it states that the bailiff must withdraw if the person appears to be under 18 but can enquire when the person will be back, if the person is under 12 they must withdraw without delay,the point about the safety of the lone female and the bailiff, where the bailiff withdraws so no accusations can be made, seems a fair point, but again there is no law stating they have to leave, logically they could go in pairs, more intimidating, but they would then witness each others behaviour.

 

Think about it, let's say 30% of people owing money are females living alone, and 90% of bailiff are male, you are saying that the large majority of women should not be visited by male bailiffs because they would feel intimidated. I am sorry but this is the real world, if you are a single female and feel intimidated by a bailiff being in your house call the police,they should attend and as said before be there to prevent a breech of the peace and help make you feel safer.

[seanamarts]

no i am not saying that they should not be visited, your twisting my words.. ffs !!! A bailiff should use his initiative, if he has any, and withdraw from a premises where a lone female is present not only for his own protection but for the vulnerability of the female. God why cant you people read what is written instead of surmising what you think is being written.

[welsh1]

Oh and lets not forget here that a bailiff must withdraw from a premises when there is a child under the age of 18 years old.

A 'male' bailiff must also withdraw from a premises if a lone female is present and feels vulnerable, this is to not only protect the female but the bailiff as well incase of any allegations made towards him. I have this written down and this is not word for word but when I get it scanned I will place on here.

 

 

You did not say a bailiff should use his initiative, you stated a bailiff MUST withdraw if a lone female is in the property and feels vunerable.

 

I was just taking your statement to a logical conclussion and saying that it would be impossible for a male bailiff to visit a lone female.

All I have tried to do is state a fact that a bailiff does not have to be invited in. And once he is in you cannot ask him to leave,no hearsay or myths just fact so the caggers can be fully aware and prepared

[fluffy_bunny]

Oh and lets not forget here that a bailiff must withdraw from a premises when there is a child under the age of 18 years old.

A 'male' bailiff must also withdraw from a premises if a lone female is present and feels vulnerable, this is to not only protect the female but the bailiff as well incase of any allegations made towards him. I have this written down and this is not word for word but when I get it scanned I will place on here.

 

Only if the person under 18 is the only person present!

 

Have NEVER heard of male bailiffs having to leave if a lone female is only one present - where is your evidence of this?

[seanamarts]

I have this written down and this is not word for word but when I get it scanned I will place on here.

i think i have read that somewhere, will try and relocate it..when i do i will post it up. Yesterday 23:31

[seanamarts]

This was taken from Drakes(now joined with Marstons Groups) own codes of practice, which they subsequently took down from their website the same time when I made it public.

 

 

Pge 3 Ref; *******

• Exemption from execution
  
• When attending premises, if any of the following situations or individuals are encountered, you are forbidden from executing the warrant and must withdraw. Certain exemptions are only considered temporary, for example, a pregnant woman is not permanently pregnant and therefore you may return after the birth. A mentally handicapped person is likely to be disabled for life and unable to understand or deal with the matter responsibly. You should therefore report on these facts.
  
• Old and/or frail - Although it is much more likely that an elderly person will be frail, and become stressed or nervous, younger persons with a medical condition may also be frail. You must make a professional judgment from your first contact with the defendant/debtor whether to proceed or not. If you determine that it is acceptable to continue you must be careful not to upset or stress the defendant. You should be prepared to withdraw if the defendant/debtor shows the slightest signs of distress. You should allow for the person to be hard of hearing/partially sighted/slow to react, and be patient and sensitive.
  
• NB. ‘old and frail' and ‘recently bereaved' appear in the lists of exemptions and discretion. The decision to proceed or not will depend on the circumstances as assessed by the EO at the time.
  
• In all of the above cases you must advise both the court/client and the office of the situation and update the appropriate system notes.
  
• Pge 4 Ref; ********
  
• Frail – If the defendant/debtor appears to be frail you should contact your Area Enforcement Manager to seek advice as to how to proceed.
  
• Disabled – If the defendant/debtor appears to be severely physically or mentally disabled you must contact the client/your area manager before proceeding. If, in your professional opinion, the defendant/debtor appears able to manage their own affairs, you should proceed cautiously and ensure that the defendant/debtor understands the matter and your role in the proceedings.
  
• Lone female - When dealing with a lone female you should be aware of potential risk of allegations that could be made against you. Where possible, it is advisable not to enter the premises fully (if at all), but to cross the main threshold and remain in the hallway or front entrance. If no other option exists other than to enter to perform a seizure of goods then you should notify the police of the situation, your intentions and request their presence.
  
• Entry to defendant/debtor's premises - Once the premises have been confirmed as the defendant/debtor's place of residence, entry may be achieved by peaceful means only. Peaceful is interpreted as by "direct or open invitation" only. You must never use force or false threats to gain entry. Entry is also forbidden if only a minor is on the premises.
  
• Forced entry - Powers to enter a premises by force is available when executing a warrant issued under section 76 of the Magistrates' Court Act 1981, but only when it is reasonably necessary to do so, in order to execute the warrant. You are not authorized to use this power without first gaining approval from your line manager - and then only in accordance with Drakes protocol in respect of Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act.
  

[High Court Enforcer]

seanamarts, this is irrelevant and you well know it.

 

Like I said, a bailiff does NOT have to be invited in and does NOT have to leave when requested. End of.

[seanamarts]

seanamarts, this is irrelevant and you well know it.

 

Like I said, a bailiff does NOT have to be invited in and does NOT have to leave when requested. End of.

whats irrelevant about it?? I was asked to show what evidence I have and I did. You still dont get my point do you??

[seanamarts]

Just so to make it clear to you, IF A BAILIFF HAS ENTERED YOUR PREMISES ILLEGALLY YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO ASK HIM TO LEAVE!!! how much clearer do I have to make this...

[munchkette]

Wow things have gotten very heated in here

 

Just so I am clear on MY scenario - am I correct in thinking that the bailiff entered my property illegally by putting his foot in the door and forcing it open?

 

Am I 100% certain on claiming he has defrauded me by misrepresenting his authority in order to obtain money and goods from me?

 

The police have refused to progress the fraud allegation saying it doesn't fit their criteria for criminal prosecution, even though I explained it several times. If I am to complain to the IPCC what should I say? PlodderTom says to file a complaint of misfeasance - is that by the police or the bailiff (misfeasance).

 

I looked on the IPCC's website (after finding the correct one - originally got details on the climate report ) and I couldn't really see on there how I could complain about the fraud not being investigated. If anyone can help on this it would be most appreciated.

 

With regards to the debit card chargeback am I likely to still be able to reclaim my money if the police won't investigate the fraud? I am taking the assault case forward so will have a crime no. for that.

Will they accept that the money was paid under duress following undue pressure from the bailiff who had misrepresented his authority?

[welsh1]

Hi Munchkette,

Sorry to drag your thread through all this,i think that you should wait for the outcome of the complaint you put into the courts,as a judge will make a decision on the evidence both sides have put forward,unless you have any witnesses it is unfortunately your word against his.If a judge decides in your favour then you can go straight to the local authority and rub their noses in it.Hope that helps.

 

Seanamarts,

I cannot believe that you argued over a point that you must know is wrong,and then produce a document that comes as an advisory form for a bailiff company,that is no longer issued.And even then it does not state "A bailiff must withdraw if a lone female is present and feels vulnerable" they simply advise their bailiffs to proceed with caution.

Also the other point you have highlighted direct or open invitation,simply means invited in or open invitation,where you do not lock your doors or windows and it is seen as a direct invite for a bailiff to enter.

 

Now you can carry on posting until you are blue in the face,but i have supplied the facts,and given a link to a government web site,there is no more to say on the subject,be a better person and retire gracefully on this .

 

Also i have read the thread about things going off track, and appreciate in this instance i am guilty of this,but i wanted to make sure that caggers got the right information.

So i apologise to Munchkette and hope my little bit of advice helps in some way.

I am not going to post on this subject any more,as we have exhausted all sensible and rational debate on the subject.

 

And above all remember

SMILE:D:D:D:D Things will get better.Tea anyone?