Am I being sexually harassed?

[char1986x]

I'm looking for advice. I'll try to keep this short and to the point.

 

I am a 23yr old female office worker for an IT company. The company is making heavy redundancies in the recession. I am aware I am one of the most junior and expendable members in my department which is over sized, therefore at very high risk or certain of being made redundant.

 

My manager, who is in his late 50s and married with kids, approached me privately and told me that he would remove my name from the list of candidates for redundancy if I started sleeping with him on a regular basis.

 

The problem here is he approached me privately, I cannot prove it. He did not black mail me and say I would be made redundant if I refused. Nor is it his decision to make me redundant.

 

However I can read between the lines, I am at extremely high risk of loosing my job and he does have the power within management to prevent that.

 

My question is do I have any grounds to go after him for sexual harassment? And if I do is it likely I will lose my job anyway?

 

I'm a 23yr old single mum with few qualifications, I absolutely must keep this job to support myself and my 7yr old son. If I cannot save my job through legal action then I will have to agree to having sex with him to keep it. Otherwise I risk loosing my house and my son's stability and quality of life which I must protect, even if it costs me.

 

Any advice?

 

Thank you.

[teaboy2]

I'm looking for advice. I'll try to keep this short and to the point.

 

I am a 23yr old female office worker for an IT company. The company is making heavy redundancies in the recession. I am aware I am one of the most junior and expendable members in my department which is over sized, therefore at very high risk or certain of being made redundant.

 

My manager, who is in his late 50s and married with kids, approached me privately and told me that he would remove my name from the list of candidates for redundancy if I started sleeping with him on a regular basis.

 

The problem here is he approached me privately, I cannot prove it. He did not black mail me and say I would be made redundant if I refused. Nor is it his decision to make me redundant.

 

However I can read between the lines, I am at extremely high risk of loosing my job and he does have the power within management to prevent that.

 

My question is do I have any grounds to go after him for sexual harassment? And if I do is it likely I will lose my job anyway?

 

I'm a 23yr old single mum with few qualifications, I absolutely must keep this job to support myself and my 7yr old son. If I cannot save my job through legal action then I will have to agree to having sex with him to keep it. Otherwise I risk loosing my house and my son's stability and quality of life which I must protect, even if it costs me.

 

Any advice?

 

Thank you.

 

First of all char1986 your managers actions are disgusting.

 

You only need the believe that you have been either discriminated against of sexually discriminated against to take it to tribunal, and it would be for the employer to prove that their was no discrimination.

 

HAve you spoke to any of the other Female employees about this to see if they have said the same to them in private, as alot of perverts like this are predatory in their advances, and may well of taken advantage of the fact they also are in the same situation as you.

 

If so ask them if they would be willing to back you up in any action you take against him. If even one of them backs you up then it be virtually impossible for him to denie or proof otherwise.

 

But we have to tred carefully here. So instead of jumping straight in with legal or tribunal action, you should first make a formal grievance to your managers superior about your managers sexual advances. Keep the letter of grievance short but to the point, including any other instances in which he has acting sexually or made sexual comments to you or to others that you have witnessed.

 

The company will then have to investigate the matter as they have a duty to protect you from such behaviour.

 

Or we could play it his way and play him at his own game and trick him into dicussing the offer with you whilst your recording it with your mobile phone or other device perhpas recorded phone call to him if your able too. which would mean he would not beable to denie, it as it would be their all on tape.

 

So if your upto doing it that way, simply ask him if you can talk to him, then say you wanted to dicuss with him the offer hed made you and how he would like to go about it i.e where, when and want hed like you to wear and do to him etc. All the while you'll be recording it. but make sure you mention to him at the start that youd like to take him up on his offer of sex in return for him making you safe from redundancy (as that will be whats nails him). Also make a trusted colleague aware of where you are and what is going on if you happen to talk to him about it in person rather then by phone. i would not recommend talking in person to him though, as youd be putting yourself at risk to furthur sexual advances from him that will make you uncomfortable such as inapproriate touching etc. so if possible do it by phone.

their is a device called truecall that allows you to record phone calls if your not able to do so on your mobile. Then make a copy of the recording take it to your managers supervior and then inform them you are also taking a copy to the police if they do not disipline him for gross misconduct. They will have no choice but to take action and demiss the manager for gross misconduct.

 

Unfortunately you can not use it as a way of securing yourself from redundancy in the form of a bargining chip as that would be blackmail However if you mention in your grievance that you had consider his offer as you can afford to be made redundant then it may serve to strenghen your position as they may take that it to account when deciding the redundancy's but its not a 100% certainty. However you can still take civil action if they fail to dismiss the manger for gross misconduct by reporting his actions to both the police and the tribunal which we will put a claim into and help you with it all the way to the end.

 

Never give into to agreeing to having sex with men like this just to safe your job, trust me its not worth it and the after effect would be a terrible burden for you to carry, that would stick with you for life. So do not reduce yourself to that level. Your better then that and you deserve to be treated with respect, so stand your ground and do not give in to his offer, becuase the effect you'll suffer afterwards mentally will show to those around even your son will pick on on it and thats not fair on him now, is it? because he will suffer from it too as a direct result of you suffering from the after effects i.e depression, break downs, stress, anger problems, future long term mental illness is just the start of the effects it will have on you if you agree to his offer. I seen it myself from friend who was i a very similar situation before i met her and it was killing her, she now works for me and is receiving the help she needs for it. But do you want to put yourself though the same. NO you dont so dont even consider it because its not fair on you or your son.

 

So stick to the advice we give you on here, also if you have house insurance check to see if your covered for free legal advice in your policy as sometimes you are.

 

If in the event after speck to the other females in the office if asking if hes approached them in a similar way and they agree to provide you with written statements ask them to write one up including details such as approximate dates of when it happened and to date and sign the statement there and then. Once you have all the statements you wont need to get a phone recording of him discussing the offer with you, all though it would serve to strenghen your case furthur, as you will have enough proof via the statements from others to prove his actions against you are higly likley to be true.

 

So if you can do that tomorrow or monday whenever your next in work and get back to me with the result, i will advise you futhur on what you nex action should be.

 

Id also advise you to call ACAS first thing in the this morning for their advice aswell. the number is below -

 

Monday–Friday, 08:00–20:00 – 08457 47 47 47

Monday–Friday, 08:00–20:00 – 08456 06 16 00 (Minicom users)

 

Saturday, 09:00–13:00 – 08457 47 47 47

 

I hope this advice strengthens your resolve not to give in to this perverts offer. For your own sake and that of your son's too.

Edited January 9, 2010 by teaboy2
changed truephone to actual name truecall

[honeybee13]

Hi there. What a terrible situation for you to be in, I'm very sorry.

 

This never happened to me while I was working in consultancy and sales, but if it had, I would have looked at what teaboy is suggesting. You're in good hands with him, it's a good forum.

 

Speaking as a fellow 'girl', I really don't think you should succumb to this cynical [at best] man's offer. It probably wouldn't make any difference to the outcome and you would feel cheap and bad about yourself afterwards, I imagine. And think of his poor wife and family; I wouldn't want my OH to do that to me.

 

Please, please think very carefully about descending to his level. I prefer teaboy's idea of catching him out, or getting other female colleagues. In the offices where I worked, we would have been able to discuss this and i hope, take action.

 

I'm not a legal person, but I would be interested to know if recording a leading conversation could amount to entrapment, or is it different in an employment case?

 

Keep strong and keep us updated. My best, HB

[honeybee13]

A couple of extra thoughts here. Teaboy, I imagine harassing someone for making a complaint would be victimisation?

 

There has to be another way to keep your house and your life with your son going. I imagine other caggers have been in the position of looking at redundancy and hope they will help.

 

My best, HB

[silverbird_9t9]

Char, he does sound to be a particularly nasty piece of work. In my experience, if someone is capable of this kind of behaviour it's unlikely that this is an isolated incident. There are probably other vulnerable females who have been targeted but feel too embarrassed and scared to report it. One other suggestion if I may. If your mobile phone can make conference calls why not make the phone call to him from the HR office and include the HR officer in the call? Just choose your words carefully so that it is clear that you are responding to his suggestions and not the other way around.

Best of luck.

[teaboy2]

A couple of extra thoughts here. Teaboy, I imagine harassing someone for making a complaint would be victimisation?

 

There has to be another way to keep your house and your life with your son going. I imagine other caggers have been in the position of looking at redundancy and hope they will help.

 

My best, HB

 

Yes honeybee your right. If an employer or colleague harases, bullys or discriminates you in anyway that singles you out from everyone else as a result of you making a complaint or placing a grievance, then it is victimization.

 

With regards to entrapment, the answer is no. entrapment is not not a defence in uk case law. Basically its only entrapment when a person usually an agent of the state such as law enforcement officers causes someone to unwillingly commit a criminal offence.

 

In this case the manager has already broken the law so he has not be Entrapped into unwillingly breaking the law. So any recording is the same as CCTV recording where they may or maynot have known they were being recorded, or watched.

 

So recording the phone call is not entrapment, but more a means of gathering evidence to prove his guilt or gain an admission of guilt from him with placing any undue pressure on him.

 

There has been alot of cases where text messages and phone recordings have been used to prosecute poeple in the past along with the more common use of CCtV recordings. one very recent one, which was actually local to my area of the uk, was where a young woman was raped by her ex boyfriend and she tricked him via text message by texting him and asking why he raped her, his response being "because i could" or similar to those words. The court took that as admission of guilt and gave him a custodial sentence.

 

Also bear in mind sexual harrasment is a sexual offence and if found guilty he will be put on the sex offenders register. But weather Char decides to go down the path of involving the police is upto her, but if it turns out he has been targeting more then just her in the office then it would be the best in both theirs and the publics insterest for her to do so, to prevent him from being a sexual pest to other women.

[andydd]

Hi.

 

Just a few thoughts. I can see that this guy is going to have a big fall, sooner or later.

 

I think the best bet would be as suggested to make a complaint, although he no doubt would deny the conversation it may well be that others have been approached or that there have been suspicions.

 

If you feel that you are at risk anyway, I cant see how making a complaint is ultimately going to put you at more risk of losing your job anyway.

 

Redundancies are decided by a list of factors, your ability, absences, work load, etc, etc..these should all be explained to you and can be examined, therefore it would be strange if this guy had access to infulence them in a negative or possitive way, if your complaint is bought out into the open then his 'meddling' might be well be shown up.

 

Good luck

 

Andy

[teaboy2]

thats an excellent idea, i would suggest following silverbird's advice and have a 3 way conference call obiviously with the HR person being silent in the back ground and listening in.

[teaboy2]

Hi.

 

Just a few thoughts. I can see that this guy is going to have a big fall, sooner or later.

 

I think the best bet would be as suggested to make a complaint, although he no doubt would deny the conversation it may well be that others have been approached or that there have been suspicions.

 

If you feel that you are at risk anyway, I cant see how making a complaint is ultimately going to put you at more risk of losing your job anyway.

 

Redundancies are decided by a list of factors, your ability, absences, work load, etc, etc..these should all be explained to you and can be examined, therefore it would be strange if this guy had access to infulence them in a negative or possitive way, if your complaint is bought out into the open then his 'meddling' might be well be shown up.

 

Good luck

 

Andy

 

Thats good point it may well be he has meddled with things in order to simply have you on the redundancy list, just so he could then proposition you. Or it could be he simply has not power over whos on the list and who isnt and is simply taking advanage of the fact you are on it.

[elpulpo]

I was about to say exactly the same, Silverbird. It's highly likely he's done this before. So, confer with other women at work and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they back you up.

I'd be very wary of trying to trap this guy on your own. It could backfire horribly. Bullies and abusers like this guy are often very skilled at making themselves appear to be the victim - "Oh look at me! Respectable family man being propositioned by this little hussy!"

 

You're not going to have sex with him. You answered that in your post. He can't control if you're made redundant. It would be the worst mistake of your life. You wouldn't have come on here if that was an option.

Things might be tough if you were to be made redundant, but you'd survive. There are good people here at CAG who can give you any help you need regarding financial/ benefit issues.

[monkeychicken]

I naively believed such things were extremely rare.

 

I'd support the view that speak to your HR in cinfidence and suggest a three way call to prove your case - so ask him things like - that offer you made the other day, is that still open?

 

- I have thought about it and can I get it straight exactly what sort of things youd expect from me? How often? etc. you get the gist.

 

Good luck and nail that creep!

[monkeychicken]

sorry on second thoughts, 'nail' was not the correct term to use.

 

Ooo-er missus

[char1986x]

Wow thank you all so much for all the replies.

 

I have read and taken notice of all your comments and advice, much of it is fantastic so thank you.

 

"Disgusting" is the perfect way to describe him, he's 35yrs older than me, married and I know his youngest daughter is a few years older than I am.

 

One thing I should clarify is that he can stop me from being made redundant. I thought I made this clear in my original post. Hence my problem.

 

What I have decided to do is:

Firstly have a quiet word with the other girls around the office, not giving anything away but find out if he's tried anything on with anybody else.

Secondly my phone has a voice record (Dictaphone type) function. I might take him to one side in private and ask him about his offer and get it on recording so I have something concrete if I decide to complain. I am not scared of talking to him in person, he doesn't scare me and if we're still in the workplace what's the worst he might do, grope me, I can deal with that.

Then I will think and plan my next move.

 

Something I should point out to you all after reading your replies is that taking him down is my second priority. I would dearly love to watch him burn for this I really would, and I would go to higher management with this like lightning if I knew my job was safe. But saving my job is my first priory.

 

As I said before I am a single mum with a 7yr old son. I have a mortgage, bills, a car and a child to finance. I would not be able to do this on benefits and I don't have much in the way of savings. I also have poor qualifications as I fell pregnant when I was young and still at school. If I lost this job realistically it would be difficult to find another before running into severe financial difficulties. My son is settled in a good home, in a nice area, with friends and a good school. I risk him losing all of that if I'm made redundant.

 

My son's happiness is what is most important to me. Some would hate me for doing it but I'd honestly rather accept his offer and have sex with him if it allows me to give my son the best life I can. And teaboy I would be able to shield my son from this. I know what you are saying and you are correct it would hurt and upset me a lot if I had to shag around to save my job but I guarantee you my son would see none of it. I have made mistakes in my sex life before, this won't be the first time I've been used, I can live it.

 

The real question I want to ask you all: is there a way I can report him for approaching me in this way as well as keeping my job? If my job is safe I'll go straight after him trust me. Will reporting him work strongly in my favour against being made redundant?

 

Also what would be the best way to report him? Go to his boss? The HR manager? The police?

 

Thank you all.

[honeybee13]

Hi Char. I still find it very hard to deal with you sleeping with this boss. How sure are you that he can protect you from redundancy? It can't be in writing, clearly.

 

Do you have details of what your financial position would be if you were to be made redundant? I don't know how long you've been there, forgive me if I missed that in your earlier post, but there would be some kind of lump sum if you've worked for the company for more than 2 years. Have you investigated what you'd be entitled to under the benefit system?

 

I really don't mean to be a wet blanket, but would prefer to see you retain your self-respect and your son's stability. Personally, I don't think any job is worth the loss of your self-esteem.

 

My best.

[char1986x]

Hi Char. I still find it very hard to deal with you sleeping with this boss. How sure are you that he can protect you from redundancy? It can't be in writing, clearly.

 

Do you have details of what your financial position would be if you were to be made redundant? I don't know how long you've been there, forgive me if I missed that in your earlier post, but there would be some kind of lump sum if you've worked for the company for more than 2 years. Have you investigated what you'd be entitled to under the benefit system?

 

I really don't mean to be a wet blanket, but would prefer to see you retain your self-respect and your son's stability. Personally, I don't think any job is worth the loss of your self-esteem.

 

My best.

 

You're right about him not having to honour his word, I would be banking on the fact he would want to keep me in bed for him to keep me around.

 

I would be able to survive about 3 months without work and the benefits would not cover all the bills.

[Rooster-UK]

What a bleddy louse!

 

I can't offer any better advice than has already been posted, but I will flag this thread for attention by one of our HR experts.

 

Good luck.

 

Regards, Rooster.

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, how exactly can he stop you being made redundant. Are you in a stand alone job (i.e. one that only you do), or are there others who will be in the redundancy pool with you?

[ErikaPNP]

 

I would be able to survive about 3 months without work and the benefits would not cover all the bills.

 

Hi Char, I've been by one of our members to pop in here and take a look re benefits. I understand you have looked into this, but want to make sure you are clear of your options, as so many people have difficulty navigating the benfit system and don't realise sometimes there are more benefits they can claim than they are aware of.

 

Are you aware that even though you are a lone parent, if you have paid enough NI contributions in the qualifying years, you may be entitled to contributory based JSA for a total of six months? This will not be affected by savings you have, so you would not necesserily have to survive solely on the savings you have, as above for three months. You may also qualify for SMI (support for mortgage interest) if you have a mortgage on your home. A lot of people form the misconception that you MUST be on Income Based benefit to get this, not so. The criteria states if you are eligible for income based benefits (i.e would have received income based benefit if you had not satisfied the conditions for contributory based).

 

After that you would transfer on to either income based JSA or Income Support, for which the savings limit is £16000.00 before they would disentitle you. A sum between £6000.00 and £16000.00 will reduce your benefit by £1.00 every week for every £250.00 (or part of £250.00) you have between £6000.00 and £16000.00. If your savings are below £6000.00, income based benefit would not be affected at all.

 

If your home is rented, you can claim housing benefit if your home is social housing, or local housing allowance if it is a private let. You can also claim Council Tax Benefit.

 

In addition to this, you would report your change in circumstances to Tax Credits and they would adjust your award - there is usually a four week run on of working tax credit. You would continue to receive child tax credit at an amended rate.

 

There are two calculators which I can direct you to for a calculation here and here

 

We also have some people across in the benefit subforum here who could advise you further. You are very welcome to make a post there about potential benefit entitlement. Some of the people who advise there are directly from processing sites and can answer most questions on benefit queries.

 

In regard to the employment issue, my personal feelings would be to make covert recordings of any further conversation you have with this pig in regard to his "offer". You can do this using a dictaphone and some mobile telephones also have a recording feature. Although many people spout that you cannot make secret recordings, without informing the other person, you most certainly can make these recordings, however only on the consensus that the recordings are not made available to a third party with the exception of legal proceedings. Anything that he uses which infer reference to his "offer", keep. Emails, bits of paper - anything at all, and report him to the police as well as to your work. That's my consensus on the matter however, Rooster has asked one of our HR bods to advise you on the employment issue who if available, can provide far more advice than I on the matter.

 

EDIT: Whoa - she's on it!!

[postggj]

Have You Considered A Personal Recording Device

 

Get It On Record And The Company Will Be Held Responsable, Not This Cretin

 

You Can Get A Decent Digital One From Maplins For About 50 Quid

 

Totally Covert

[monkeychicken]

Look you cannot possibly trust this creep - someone who makes a proposition like that is never going to keep their word. He will sleep with you but will not lift a finger to help you keep your job. You will never be able to hold him to his word. Youll find that you sleep with him and still lose your job. You'd even be better off going into escorting instead of sleeping with this berk to keep your job becasue that way at least you'd be assured of the pay- its a more honest transaction. Dont do it, even if you have no morality issues.

[char1986x]

Hi there, how exactly can he stop you being made redundant. Are you in a stand alone job (i.e. one that only you do), or are there others who will be in the redundancy pool with you?

 

Yes there are others too.

[char1986x]

Hi Char, I've been by one of our members to pop in here and take a look re benefits. I understand you have looked into this, but want to make sure you are clear of your options, as so many people have difficulty navigating the benfit system and don't realise sometimes there are more benefits they can claim than they are aware of.

 

Are you aware that even though you are a lone parent, if you have paid enough NI contributions in the qualifying years, you may be entitled to contributory based JSA for a total of six months? This will not be affected by savings you have, so you would not necesserily have to survive solely on the savings you have, as above for three months. You may also qualify for SMI (support for mortgage interest) if you have a mortgage on your home. A lot of people form the misconception that you MUST be on Income Based benefit to get this, not so. The criteria states if you are eligible for income based benefits (i.e would have received income based benefit if you had not satisfied the conditions for contributory based).

 

After that you would transfer on to either income based JSA or Income Support, for which the savings limit is £16000.00 before they would disentitle you. A sum between £6000.00 and £16000.00 will reduce your benefit by £1.00 every week for every £250.00 (or part of £250.00) you have between £6000.00 and £16000.00. If your savings are below £6000.00, income based benefit would not be affected at all.

 

If your home is rented, you can claim housing benefit if your home is social housing, or local housing allowance if it is a private let. You can also claim Council Tax Benefit.

 

In addition to this, you would report your change in circumstances to Tax Credits and they would adjust your award - there is usually a four week run on of working tax credit. You would continue to receive child tax credit at an amended rate.

 

There are two calculators which I can direct you to for a calculation here and here

 

We also have some people across in the benefit subforum here who could advise you further. You are very welcome to make a post there about potential benefit entitlement. Some of the people who advise there are directly from processing sites and can answer most questions on benefit queries.

 

In regard to the employment issue, my personal feelings would be to make covert recordings of any further conversation you have with this pig in regard to his "offer". You can do this using a dictaphone and some mobile telephones also have a recording feature. Although many people spout that you cannot make secret recordings, without informing the other person, you most certainly can make these recordings, however only on the consensus that the recordings are not made available to a third party with the exception of legal proceedings. Anything that he uses which infer reference to his "offer", keep. Emails, bits of paper - anything at all, and report him to the police as well as to your work. That's my consensus on the matter however, Rooster has asked one of our HR bods to advise you on the employment issue who if available, can provide far more advice than I on the matter.

 

EDIT: Whoa - she's on it!!

 

I will look into this further, thank you very much for the information.

[char1986x]

Have You Considered A Personal Recording Device

 

Get It On Record And The Company Will Be Held Responsable, Not This Cretin

 

You Can Get A Decent Digital One From Maplins For About 50 Quid

 

Totally Covert

 

I have one on my phone as I said in my previous post.

[char1986x]

Look you cannot possibly trust this creep - someone who makes a proposition like that is never going to keep their word. He will sleep with you but will not lift a finger to help you keep your job. You will never be able to hold him to his word. Youll find that you sleep with him and still lose your job. You'd even be better off going into escorting instead of sleeping with this berk to keep your job becasue that way at least you'd be assured of the pay- its a more honest transaction. Dont do it, even if you have no morality issues.

 

Unfortunely thats what I might be doing if I lose my job.

 

You are right though, I cannot trust him.

[Ell-enn]

Yes there are others too.

 

So if you are put into a selection pool and all are measured against the same criteria, how can this man have any influence over how you are scored. You will have the right to question your scoring if you are selected for redundancy and if they are unable to justify your scoring you would have a case for unfair dismissal.