Heellpp Please...I Signed LEVY OF DISTRESS AFTER THE FACT AFTER MUM LET HIM IN!

[Rach:)]

Thanks Rae, again.

 

Yes You are totally right and my 2 leather sofas are definately on there as is my dryer. Will have to check the rest. My pc - that I need for work.

 

Off to bed,

Thanks again

[tomtubby]

Thanks everyone!

I don't know if this is correct...

He said that when I signed the walking levy of distress I used his "special smart pen" He said look into the end, so I did he said its got a camera in there and I will be filmed signing the document, this would be directly sent to the court (!) (to show I signed it)...

I know, I know everyone will be thinking I am stuipid now, but I didnt think about it, I didn't doubt it,i just took what he said. He keeps pushing the fact that he is a warrant offiocer for the court. (?) is this right?

 

HE LEFT A MESSAGE ON MY WORK ANSWER PHONE SAYING HE WAS COMING TO MY WORKPLACE to LOOK FOR ME.- (Sorry Caps).

 

When he took my first lump of money he said "that will pay for my night out this weekend", but also said he was on a salary.

There is loads like this that i have deemed as totally inapppropriate, is this usual?

I feel totally, bullied, mislead, Completely CONNED.

Manipulated and that I was atually targetted and persued and taken advantage of because ( I didn't know at the time) I was vulnerable and on my own.

I feel really sad about it now and ashamed I let it happen to mysself and my kids.

Sorry, Pity party over.

Rach

 

I do not want to be seen as supporting the bailiff ...far from it....by he his partly correct is some of what he has said.

 

First, you need to be a little careful of how much information you are providing here because it will become obvious to the bailiff company who you are and many bailiffs read these posts on CAG on an almost daily basis.

 

Second, all bailiffs do instead have a "magic pen" ( as it is correctly called) and work via "bluetooth technology" . In simple terms, when he uses his "magic pen" to write on a specially adapted forms what he writes is received at his office almost immediately and is used to update the SCREENSHOT of your account. This is why I have always said that it is vital to request a copy of the screenshot !!!

 

If there is a dispute regarding visits, then yes ...a screenshot i used as proof of a visit and in this point he is slightly correct.

that it cannot be removed as it has been immobilised. No clamps are put on the car and when the debtor calls the bailiff they are told that it has been "remotely immobilised" from the office. Believing this is STUPID. Yours is not so.

 

He is NOT an officer of the court and this needs to be complained about.

 

HOWEVER...and please once again do not take this the wrong way. I do believe that you are telling the truth.....BUT....

 

You have a telephone message from the bailiff and this is PROOF but even so cannot be seen as threatening. Apart from this, what you have is one persons word against another and sadly, local authorities, local government ombudsman office and District Judges in Form 4 Complaints many times will take the side of the bailiff who will provide an entirely different version of events.

 

I have probably seen a few hundred Form 4 Complaints in my time and the vast majority are like your case an allegations is made concerning threats by a bailiff and sadly, when you see the Witness Statement from the bailiff it is a entirely different version of event and many District Judges have been known to respond by rejecting the complaint on the basis that "the bailiff has a very difficult job to do and will always be seen as unpopular"

 

The local authority will only be interested in receiving their money and looking at payment proposals. Councils have very little money and only yesterday we heard that they have so far "lost" over £830 million by investing in Icelandic Bank Accounts !!! If Iceland do not pay this money back, then you can be certain that the local authorities will be looking towards you and I.

 

When writing to the council you need to ensure that you make a payment proposal and if your circumstances are "vulnerable" that you provide proof ( this is always required because so many people now use "vulnerability" when requesting special consideration.

 

Finally, very importantly you should be asking the council to confirm whether they have permitted this company to apply a Head H ( redemption of goods fee) of £24.50.....and if so, under which precise statutory ruling.

[RaeUK]

Thanks for the clarification of the 'magic pen', tomtubby. I have an image in mind pretty similar to the devices used by delivery men for a signature [just more modern]...

Proof of vulnerability should always be provided. And those who are genuine should already be linked into their GP, NHS, Mental Health systems making it all the easier to prove. And, obviously, it's not a method of debt avoidance!

Rae.

[Rach:)]

Hi neveryone, I finally got out of my house, and got more documents, this is the Levy,:

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/rachlt/rossandrobscopy.gif

 

My 2 sofas are on there, a 2 seater and 3 seater.

Printer.

TV

Tv cabinate

WASHING MACHINE

My PC

PC monitor.

Tumble dryer

Microwave

Hoover

TV

2 lamps

1 corner unit

Upright lamp.! chest of drawer. (My only one for keeping my clothes in)

 

I am surprised he left me the bed)!

[RaeUK]

I'm sorry, Rach, but can you just reconfirm that you were visited by a bailiff and not a second-hand dealer???

Without checking Hallowitchs list I posted as it's a page back, I'd say sofas, mmm, need to leave you with sufficient seating so maybe one not two. Washing machine, no. Tumble dryer, no - I'd think British weather! Hoover, no. Chest of drawers, more than likely no. Microwave possibly if you have adequate means to cook. PC etc you'd need to prove it was work related. But I think there's enough there for someone to advise what to do about it.

Glad you're defrosting, we are a little here as well...

Best wishes.

Rae.

[hallowitch]

WASHING MACHINE

Tumble dryer

Hoover

you have an unlawful levy these goods cant be levied

My 2 sofas are on there, a 2 seater and 3 seater (cant be levied if this would leave no seating for yourself and family )AMBROSE v NOTTINHGAM CITY COUNCIL

 

send a letter to the bailiff company tell them that the bailiff had levied on exempt goods and ask them to remove all fees connected with this levy

 

send a copy of this letter to the council include a copy of the walking possession agreement

[Rach:)]

Oh, thanks Guys!

 

I just can not believe some people!

Just because I am young and on my own, I was a target.

I see a mission...

Thanks so much,

Rach

[Rach:)]

Rae, that's so funny!

I think I must have been...

[RaeUK]

Thanks hallowitch, I'm glad I wasn't so far out.

Best wishes

Rae.

[hallowitch]

header H fee should not be charged either

I see they have added a 1st &2nd visit fee do you know the dates of the visit

 

 

Irregular Distress (Levy) by Bailiffs

With thanks to Tomtubby

[edit]MRS AMBROSE v NOTTINHGAM CITY COUNCIL

This is another well known legal cases that has been relied upon many times when either issuing proceedings, or one that can be referred to when writing a letter of complaint. This case concerns a lady by the name of Mrs Ambrose who claimed that a levy (distress) was irregular as bailiffs had removed goods from the home that were necessary for “providing the basic domestic needs of the family”

Background:

Mrs Ambrose and her husband had an unpaid Council Tax bill for £851.00 owing to Nottingham City Council. In September 2003, Rossendale’s Bailiffs attended at their home to levy distress on goods. Rossendale’s had entered the property, where they identified items that were listed on a Walking Possession. Next to those items listed, the bailiff wrote the words: “and all other goods on the premises unless exempt or specially exempt by statute.” The bailiff had not looked around the house; he had merely entered one room and was therefore unable to see which items were “exempt”

Regulation 45 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 lists the following items as being exempt from seizure:

"Such tools, books, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary for use personally in employment, business or vocation"

"Such clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment and provisions as are necessary for satisfying basic domestic needs of the person and family".

As the Council Tax remained unpaid, the bailiff returned with a van to seize furniture that included a sofa, footstool and two dining chairs.

District Judge Cooper agreed that the seizure was irregular as the bailiff had removed furniture that was necessary for “satisfying the basic domestic needs of Mrs Ambrose and her family” This was because, amongst other items removed, the bailiffs had removed 2 dining chairs. They left behind the table and the remaining two chairs. As the family consisted of Mrs & Mrs Ambrose and one child, the bailiffs should have left seating for 3 people, not two.

Nottingham City Council had argued that there could not be any irregularity as Mrs Ambrose had signed the Walking Possession. This was rejected by Judge Cooper who agreed that Mrs Ambrose was faced with the prospect of having her goods removed unless she signed the Walking Possession.

As important as the above is, the Judge also agreed that the wording on the Walking Possession was deficient in that the reference to “all other goods on the premises unless exempt” did not specify what those other goods were, and which ones were exempt. The Judge agreed that the levy was also irregular for this reason.

__________________

[Rach:)]

Does that mean that the walkling possession agrteement is void, Can I stop him coming back and entering my house, as he keeps threatning to send the locksmiths and always ends the conversation with "where would you like me to leave the keys"?

[RaeUK]

I do wonder if some bailiffs stick anything on the form, irrespective of whether it's right or wrong, because they don't want your goods they want your money. And you're more likely to be intimidated into begging and borrowing if they make you believe you might lose essential items.

Just a thought.

Rae.

[RaeUK]

He can't use locksmiths hunni. Follow Hallowitchs / Tomtubbys advice. The levy is void.

Rae

[Rach:)]

I think you have a point there Rae, I wasn't there at the time (and the levy and wpa were handed to me in the car- it was not left on the premisis, like it says on the notice).

 

He knew I worked, as I had to rush back to meet him from work, so probably thought I was good for it. (even tho, I only work part time and pretty much 3/4 of my wages goes on childcare, so that I can work)!

[Rach:)]

~thankyou~

[RaeUK]

And don't forget to tell your Mum you still love her ...

Rae.

[Rach:)]

Lol.

 

I think he needs to go back to ballif school!

[hallowitch]

Does that mean that the walking possession agreement is void, Can I stop him coming back and entering my house, as he keeps threatening to send the locksmiths and always ends the conversation with "where would you like me to leave the keys"?

 

yes you can

the next time he phones ask him what court you would like him to send the form 4 complaint to as his walking possession agreement is invalid as it list exempt goods

[Rach:)]

he he, very funny!

[Rach:)]

do you think this merits a form 4 complaint?

What would you do?

[hallowitch]

A form 4 complaint is a last resort and shouldn't be used until you have exhausted every other avenue E.G. complaint to the bailiff company formal complaint to the council

 

There is nothing stopping you telling him that this is what will happen if he uses a locksmith to get into your house to remove goods that are exempt

 

you may also want to remind him that he must send you a letter giving you a time and date for this removal to take place he cant just turn up with a locksmith and remove goods in your absence

CODE OF PRACTICE

ON

LOCAL AUTHORITIES' USE OF BAILIFFS

IN THE ENFORCEMENT OF LOCAL TAXES

There have been changes wrought by case law and also by amendments to the

Distress for rent Rules 1988 and Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement)

Regulations 1993 as follows.

p5 Forcing re-entry

The law upon the rights of bailiffs to force re-entry to premises in order to remove

goods previously seized has recently been clarified. In Khazanchi v Faircharm

Investments; McLeod v Butterwick [1998] 2 All ER 901 the Court of Appeal held that

bailiffs may only force re-entry where they are being deliberately excluded from

premises. It will thus be necessary in most cases for the bailiff to notify the debtor in

advance of the date and time of the visit in order to remove. If the debtor is then

absent from home, or refuses entry, force may be employed

[hallowitch]

This post was writen by tomtubby

 

 

The following is a brief guide on how to complain to the court about a certificated bailiff. However, since the launch by the Ministry of Justice of the on line certificated bailiff register it is important that anyone considering making such a complaint should read the notes at the bottom of this page. This is very important!!

 

 

 

COMPLAINING TO THE COURT ABOUT A CERTIFICATED BAILIFF:

 

If you have a complaint about a Certificated Bailiff, there is a procedure that you can use which is refered to as a FORM 4 COMPLAINT. However, it is important to be aware that this is an application to the Court and as such is a form of Litigation and a hearing will take place in the County Court in front of a District Judge.

 

The Statutory Regulations relating to Certificated Bailiff's are found in the Distress for Rent Act 1988 ( as amended) and this provides for complaints about the conduct of Certificated Bailiff’s to be made to the County Court (where the bailiff obtained his certificate) using a very simple court form called a FORM 4.

 

A copy of your complaint must be sent to the court and they in turn will forward a copy to the bailiff and his employer. They have just 14 days to respond. If the judge is satisfied with the response, no further action is taken. If the bailiff fails to deliver a reply or, if upon reading the reply, the Judge is unsatisfied with the response. the bailiff will be summoned to court to "show good cause as to why his Certificate should not be cancelled". You should ensure that you attend the hearing.

 

THE GROUNDS FOR MAKING A COMPLAINT TO THE COURT:

 

The court will hear any complaint that you may have, but the following are the most common:

 

• The fees charged are EXCESSIVE and are not in keeping with Statutory Regulations.However, the court are commonly dismissing such complaints on this ground on the basis that the correct procedure should be to make an application to the Court for Detailed Assessment which will involve a Costs Judge examining the fees charged against those provided for in the statutory regulations.

 

• The bailiff's behavior has been AGGRESSIVE, RUDE or THREATENING. A bailiff has no right to force his/her way into your premises in order to gain entry to enforce the collection of Council Tax arrears, unpaid Parking Charge Notices, etc

 

• The bailiff has levied ILLEGALLY. This means that the bailiff has levied on goods which cannot be seized; (ie: goods that are not yours)

 

• The bailiff has levied IRREGULARLY. This means that the correct goods have been seized, but the events following the seizure are not correct e.g. the bailiff sells your goods after you have paid the debt or sells them for an undervalue.

 

• The bailiff has levied EXCESSIVELY. This means that the value of the goods seized from you is significantly more than the amount of the debt. However, it is important to be aware that auction values will apply and your goods will only realise approx 10% of their value.

 

 

NOTES ON COMPLETING THE FORM:

 

 

As explained earlier, a Form 4 Complaint is a form of litigation. The Judge reading the complaint will only be interested in facts. If the complaint concerns the behaviour of the bailiff and there were witnesses, it is wise to provide statements from them when submitting the complaint.

 

 

A Form 4 Complaint can have very serious implications for the bailiff in that he could have his certificate removed by the Court and this will lead to him losing his employment. For this reason, it is always the case that if you have a complaint about a certificated bailiff that your complaint should first be sent to the bailiff company to address and the Form 4 Complaint to the County Court should always be seen as a last resort. By ensuring that you have allowed the bailiff company sufficient opportunity to deal with your complaint, you will avoid being criticised by the Court and being accused of wasting court time.

 

If you have received a response from the bailiff company to your complaint and you are unhappy with the reply you may consider sending a draft copy of the Form 4 Complaint to the company and stating that unless the matter is resolved to your satisfaction within 21 days that you will consider submitting the Form 4 Complaint to the Court without any further reference to them.

 

In all cases, as the bailiff is working as an agent for the local authority, a copy of your complaint should be sent to the council as well and you need to ensure that you ask that it is recorded as a "formal complaint" and addresses for the attention of the Chief Executive.

 

 

WHAT THE JUDGE CAN DO:

 

At the hearing, the Judge may take the following action:-

 

• Order compensation to be paid to you. This means that the Judge can award you a sum of money from the “Bailiff Bond”. (see note below)

 

• Cancel the bailiff's certificate. This will lead to the bailiff immediately losing his employment and will naturally mean that he will not be allowed to work as a bailiff for any other enforcement company.

 

• Dismiss your complaint. At the hearing the Judge has to consider whether the complaint about the bailff is serious enough for him to cancel the bailiffs certificate (which will ultimately lead to the loss of his employment). From experience, when the court dismiss a Form 4 Complaint this is commonly because the complaint concerns the amount of fees charged and the correct procedure should an application for Detailed Assessment. The court will also dismiss complaints where it is clear that the complaint is not serious enough and where the debtor had submitted a Form 4 Complaint to the court before allowing the bailiff company the opportunity to resolve the complaint.

 

Note: In order to be Certificated, all bailiffs must obtain a £10,000 Bailiff Bond. Although some bonds are provided by an insurance company, the vast majority are provided and underwritten by either ACEA or ESA who are both Trade Associations for Bailiff Companies.

 

 

VERY IMPORTANT NOTE:

 

 

The Bailiff and Sheriff section of the Consumer Action Group forum is extremely popular ( I am reliably informed that approx 1.9 million posts have been viewed since this part of the website started !!) and since the launch earlier this year of the on line bailiff register, thousands of Consumer Action Group visitors have used the search facility with a similar number of viewers reading this additional thread as well.

 

With the severe effects of the recession affecting so many people there has been a significant increase in Form 4 Complaints being made to the County Courts and as a result, bailiff companies are now routinely instructing solicitors or even barristers to represent their bailiff's at a Form 4 hearing and sadly there are many reports where Judges have been know to impose costs orders against the person making the complaint if the court dismiss the complaint at an eventual hearing. This will naturally have a devastating effect on debtors, many of whom may already be in vulnerable circumstances.

 

 

The Form 4 Complaint issued by the Ministry of Justice does not provide any guidance notes and neither does it warn the debtor that they could be liable for costs in the event that the Judge dismisses the complaint. As mentioned above, the filing of a Form 4 Complaint should be a last resort and the court will expect that you have first provided the bailiff company with an opportunity to address your complaint.

 

As a large proportion of Form 4 Complaints concern the amount of fees charged by a bailiff you may consider instead filing a simple N1 Small Claims application in the County Court. The small claims limit is £5,000 and it is only in the most exceptional circumstances that you could be liable for the defendants costs if you were to lose your case.

[Rach:)]

Wow, THankyou.

 

THat is really interesting.

And the fact that he has to write to me and let me know he will get a locksmith to get in my home. (as I live in Housing asssociation housing - would he have to let my landlord know)?

I worry everytime I leave the house that he will come rounmd as he is due back any time, but as the snow has pretty much cut us off, it hasn't happened yet.

He has told me on a couple of occasions that he was going to get the locksmith- now.

I just can't believe he thought I was that stupid (ok, so I was.

 

But really I was trying to hold it together after being off sick from work, busy and over run, deppressed, in debt and having my partner just left me). Now I have had time to get my head round it and help from you wonderful people, there is no way he is going to take the $£%% out of me. THe thought of him doing this to some other young girl breaks my heart.

but i will not let this go.

THankyoux

[Rach:)]

I just looked at the other letter I got at the time of the levy and it says if I defulted (which I then did and he visited the other day) I would encur charges of... He has written in £150, It surely can not be that much... (nope, probably not)...

But he then DID visit, so I now owe that too.

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/rachlt/randrobs09150charges.gif[/img]"]

 

My 1st monthy payment is due in about a week, do you reccomend that I pay the arranged amount £150, or pay to the council or make arrangement to the council?

 

Sorry for this, but its quite alot to take in,

What do you reccomend I do now? tommorrow, first thing in the morning?

Edited January 11, 2010 by Rach:)

[tomtubby]

Can you clear a number of point up please.

 

What was the amount of the original Liability Order.

 

You paid £200 cash. Was this at the first visit?

 

The payment of the cheque. What visit was this at?

 

Are you on benefits?

 

You have mentioned somewhere that there is an application for council tax relief ( I could have read this wrong). If correct, is this still ongoing?

 

As a single person, are you receiving the 25% single person discount?