A parking question

[kregrs]

I'm hoping this is the right place for this question, it doesn't involve any tickets or fines for myself, but it is a parking problem.

Where I live, fairly quiet residential road which exits on to a main road. Either side of the junction, at all times of the day, people tend to park quite close to the junction, and it obscures visibility quite a bit. There's no double yellows or anything, but pulling out from the junction can be a nightmare sometimes. Can anything be done about it? And who would it be reported to, police or council parking? For anyone interested, its Landseer Road in Ipswich, between the junctions with Clapgate Lane and Nacton Road, in the past 6 months there's been a serious accident involving a child on a bike, and a fatal involving a motorcyclist, on this stretch of road, and I myself have had a few near misses and witnessed others. So, any advice or help as to what to do would be much appreciated.

[green_and_mean]

Probably the best long term solution is to write to both the local Councillor and the Councillor responsible for highways (addresses should be on website) and ask for yellow lines to protect the junction, mentioning the accidents. In the short term it depends who enforces parking, if its the Police complain that the junction is being obstructed, if its the Council they cannot do much unless there are drop kerbs for pedestrians to cross the junction they cannot enforce.

[Al27]

Try the police. Councils jump fast when it's the police that request things that need doing.

[JimmySpangle]

I agree. It is also a parking violation to park within 10 metres of a junction, so they can be given a ticket. The long tern solotion though is to have the council yellow line it.

[lamma]

I agree. It is also a parking violation to park within 10 metres of a junction, so they can be given a ticket. The long tern solotion though is to have the council yellow line it.

 

care to quote the legislation about this 10 yard thing ? it is a common myth - the Highway Code is not law.

[JimmySpangle]

Yep, no problem. Here is the relevant section from the highway code:

 

242

 

You MUST NOT leave your vehicle or trailer in a dangerous position or where it causes any unnecessary obstruction of the road.

 

[Laws RTA 1988, sect 22 & CUR reg 103]

243

 

DO NOT stop or park

 

• near a school entrance
  
• anywhere you would prevent access for Emergency Services
  
• at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
  
• on the approach to a level crossing/tramway crossing
  
• opposite or within 10 metres (32 feet) of a junction, except in an authorised parking space
  
• near the brow of a hill or hump bridge
  
• opposite a traffic island or (if this would cause an obstruction) another parked vehicle
  
• where you would force other traffic to enter a tram lane
  
• where the kerb has been lowered to help wheelchair users and powered mobility vehicles
  
• in front of an entrance to a property
  
• on a bend
  
• where you would obstruct cyclists’ use of cycle facilities
  

except when forced to do so by stationary traffic.

 

 

The law used for parking too near a junction is as above, causing an obstruction Laws RTA 1988, sect 22 & CUR reg 103

 

You are reading code 243, which is only a request, but you are not noticing rule 242 which applies if you do any of the things in rule 243, which is exactly why people parking on yellow zig zags get a ticket even thrugh there is no yellow line there, just zig zags. Same with crossings, same with parking on a junction.

[lamma]

Thats the Highway Code, not law. Follow the regs listed and see if you can find the '10 yards of a junction' thing - you won't.

[JimmySpangle]

Boy, this is hard work. If you are parked within 10 metres of a junction, you can be ticketed for 'causing an obstruction'. Read the law again:

 

Highway code:

You MUST NOT leave your vehicle or trailer in a dangerous position or where it causes any unnecessary obstruction of the road.

 

Law:

[Laws RTA 1988, sect 22 & CUR reg 103]

[Raykay]

Rule 242 is 'Must Not' as it is covered by s. 22 RTA etc.

 

Rule 243 is a 'Do Not' and is advice, although the individual situations could be construed as dangerous position, unnecessary obstruction etc, they are not offences in their own right.

[StrawDog]

JS - well intentioned but incorrect I'm afraid.

There is no law which specifically states that it is an offence per se to park within 10 metres of a junction.

Any allegation of obstruction would be dealt with on individual circumstances & merit.

[Al27]

22. Leaving vehicles in dangerous positions.

 

If a person in charge of a vehicle causes or permits the vehicle or a trailer drawn by it to remain at rest on a road in such a position or in such condition or in such circumstances as to be likely to cause danger to other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.

 

Best I can find.

[Blagton]

Boy, this is hard work. If you are parked within 10 metres of a junction, you can be ticketed for 'causing an obstruction'. Read the law again:

 

Highway code:

You MUST NOT leave your vehicle or trailer in a dangerous position or where it causes any unnecessary obstruction of the road.

 

Law:

[Laws RTA 1988, sect 22 & CUR reg 103]

 

Wording ambiguous and to confuse - surely not

 

The preamble to the Highways code has:

 

"Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined, given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from driving. In the most serious cases you may be sent to prison. Such rules are identified by the use of the words ‘MUST/MUST NOT’. In addition, the rule includes an abbreviated reference to the legislation which creates the offence. An explanation of the abbreviations can be found in 'The road user and the law'.

 

Although failure to comply with the other rules of the Code will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts (see 'The road user and the law') to establish liability. This includes rules which use advisory wording such as ‘should/should not’ or ‘do/do not’."

 

Rule 242 which is applied by the RTA 1988 is a "MUST NOT", that is if you disobey it you are committing a criminal offence however neither that Highway Code rule nor the RTA1988 Sec 22 say specifically what an obstruction may or may not be - open to individual cases and circumstances.

 

Sec 22 states:

"Leaving vehicles in dangerous positions

If a person in charge of a vehicle causes or permits the vehicle or a trailer drawn by it to remain at rest on a road in such a position or in such condition or in such circumstances as to be likely to cause danger to other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence"

 

Highway Code Rule 243, is a "Do Not" which failure to comply with the will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted which means that parking within 10 metres of a junction will not, in itself result in prosecution.....

 

.....you may well (in all probability ?) though be causing a danger to other road users so go to Rule 242 and the RTA ! You could of course fight your corner if you did receive a ticket for such an alledged offence and it was not left in a dangerous position as by definition if thats the case you are not breaking Highway Code Rule 242/RTA sec 22.

 

Blagton

Edited November 30, 2009 by Blagton
Misspulling

[JimmySpangle]

JS - well intentioned but incorrect I'm afraid.

There is no law which specifically states that it is an offence per se to park within 10 metres of a junction.

Any allegation of obstruction would be dealt with on individual circumstances & merit.

 

Yes, that is what I have been saying. There is no specific law regarding distance from a junction. There is also no specific law regarding parking in the middle of the street either, both CAN but not necssarily will be dealt with under the obstruction law.

[StrawDog]

I agree. It is also a parking violation to park within 10 metres of a junction, so they can be given a ticket. The long tern solotion though is to have the council yellow line it.

 

That's not what you implied earlier JS - however, matter now clarified & honour satisfied.

[JimmySpangle]

ALL of these can be given a ticket. All for obstruction as above:

 

 

• near a school entrance
  
• anywhere you would prevent access for Emergency Services
  
• at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
  
• on the approach to a level crossing/tramway crossing
  
• opposite or within 10 metres (32 feet) of a junction, except in an authorised parking space
  
• near the brow of a hill or hump bridge
  
• opposite a traffic island or (if this would cause an obstruction) another parked vehicle
  
• where you would force other traffic to enter a tram lane
  
• where the kerb has been lowered to help wheelchair users and powered mobility vehicles
  
• in front of an entrance to a property
  
• on a bend
  
• where you would obstruct cyclists’ use of cycle facilities
  

[Al27]

The guideline

 

opposite or within 10 metres (32 feet) of a junction, except in an authorised parking space

 

could result in committing an offence under

 

22. Leaving vehicles in dangerous positions.

 

If a person in charge of a vehicle causes or permits the vehicle or a trailer drawn by it to remain at rest on a road in such a position or in such condition or in such circumstances as to be likely to cause danger to other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.

 

I'd consider the 10m rule to be a guideline to help a plod determine whether the positioning was dangerous or not.

[Jamberson]

kregrs - where I live, the best thing is to both phone and write to the Highways dept of the council. (Not all councils will call the relevant department 'Highways', but you should be able to find out who it is - the people who install on-street parking restrictions.)

 

Make them aware of the problem and request clearly that yellow lines are installed. They should look at the situation and report back to you. No reason for them to be opposed to the idea if accidents have happened there.

[lamma]

"It is also a parking violation to park within 10 metres of a junction," no it isn't. there is no such automatic parking violation. In fact there are lots of parking bays around that are within 10 metres of a junction. I just picked up on the 'urban myth'. The Highway Code also mis-states Yellow Box Junction rules.

[namregd]

Sorry for resurrecting this topic, but the wording "opposite or within 10 yards of a junction" is not clear, and if anyone can help with the following I'd appreciate it.

 

I live opposite a junction in a quiet residential road. My road has a school at the end, about 100 yards from my house. Recently, the council painted a yellow line outside my house (and my immediate neighbours), and on the corners of the junction opposite. This is a single yellow lane with the following plate displayed: "No Waiting Mon-Fri 8am-9.30am 2.30pm-4pm". This is obviously aimed at school drop off and pick up times, and would suggest that outside of those times, it's OK to park - which it apparently isn't, if the local CSOs are to be believed.

 

The term "opposite or within 10 yards of a junction" would suggest to me that you shouldn't park "opposite a junction" or "within 10 yards of a junction on the same side of the road (as the junction)" - otherwise there would be no point in putting the word "opposite" in the definition - "within 10 yards" would capture both sides of the road. The reason I ask is that I routinely park (when allowed to by the yellow line restriction) outside my house, not directly opposite the junction, but certainly within 10 yards. But I park on the other side of the road to the junction, and I maintain that this is legal (or within the Highway Code - not wishing to stir up that can of worms again! )

 

Does anyone agree, or disagree?

 

Thanks

[green_and_mean]

Sorry for resurrecting this topic, but the wording "opposite or within 10 yards of a junction" is not clear, and if anyone can help with the following I'd appreciate it.

 

I live opposite a junction in a quiet residential road. My road has a school at the end, about 100 yards from my house. Recently, the council painted a yellow line outside my house (and my immediate neighbours), and on the corners of the junction opposite. This is a single yellow lane with the following plate displayed: "No Waiting Mon-Fri 8am-9.30am 2.30pm-4pm". This is obviously aimed at school drop off and pick up times, and would suggest that outside of those times, it's OK to park - which it apparently isn't, if the local CSOs are to be believed.

 

The term "opposite or within 10 yards of a junction" would suggest to me that you shouldn't park "opposite a junction" or "within 10 yards of a junction on the same side of the road (as the junction)" - otherwise there would be no point in putting the word "opposite" in the definition - "within 10 yards" would capture both sides of the road. The reason I ask is that I routinely park (when allowed to by the yellow line restriction) outside my house, not directly opposite the junction, but certainly within 10 yards. But I park on the other side of the road to the junction, and I maintain that this is legal (or within the Highway Code - not wishing to stir up that can of worms again! )

 

Does anyone agree, or disagree?

 

Thanks

 

The only place you can park 100% legally without causing an obstruction is a parking bay anywhere else you could feasibly be causing an obstruction. The highway code 'junction parking' text is guidance not the law, if the CSO says he considers its causing an obstruction it is unless you get a FPN and can prove otherwise in Court.

[namregd]

I would think it would be up to the CSO to prove that it was causing an obstruction rather than the other way around - what happened to innocent until proven guilty?

[Jamberson]

I don't think your position relative to the junction supercedes the issue of whether you are causing an obstruction - you can't say "I'm not causing an obstruction because I'm on the other side of the road". Either you are or you aren't causing an obstruction - and that's a matter of judgement rather than something measurable.

 

From the sound of it, if you are within 10 yards but on the other side of the road, then I imagine a passing vehicle would have to steer to the other side of the carriageway to get by, and this, near to the mouth of a junction, could well be deemed an obstruction.

 

It's not wise to compel a vehicle to change sides where there is a junction close by, in case a second vehicle pulls out of the junction, not expecting oncoming traffic on the left hand side of the road they are pulling into. If you're causing a danger like this to other motorists, then I guess you would be obstructing.

[crem]

It's not wise to compel a vehicle to change sides where there is a junction close by, in case a second vehicle pulls out of the junction, not expecting oncoming traffic on the left hand side of the road they are pulling into. If you're causing a danger like this to other motorists, then I guess you would be obstructing.

 

If such a view was taken stringently, then I suspect there would be very few residential streets where onstreet parking would be allowed at all.

[Jamberson]

Agreed. I guess the issue is one of how practical (and desirable) it would be to enforce every time, rather than whether obstructions are actually being caused.

[namregd]

Point taken, although I believe that the "within 10 yards" wording was designed to stop people parking on the same side of the road as the junction, thereby obstructing the view of vehicles coming out of the junction. The scenario you refer to is certainly valid, although I would have thought that if that were the intention, 10 yards would be hardly sufficient.

 

There are many junctions in this area where double yellow lines are displayed at the junction, and going around the corner and extending 10 yards, in accordance with the advice given in the highway code. However, at these junctions, there are no double yellow lines displayed opposite the junction, which seems a bit on a contradiction.

 

Probably a matter of opinion at the end of the day. For the tome being, however, I will happily leave my car parked outside my house at weekends (and therefore outside of the restricted times), and NOT opposite the junction, and see what happens. If I get a ticket, I'm very happy to take it to court. I'll even post the result here!