Is my MBNA Card Application Form Enforceable

[TwoTicky]

Hi, please could you give me your opinion on the following, after I CCA'd MBNA several months ago I recently received a copy of my application. I found a copy of it in the MBNA library with the following comments

 

"Enforceablility : There is an issue of legibility so very likely not

However, would be enforceable if a legible document were to be produced because - signature and prescribed terms are on the same page."

 

and this is the link to the same copy

 

Unsure MBNA :: A plus picture by citizenba - Photobucket

 

The prescribed terms are not legible on my copy, what do you suggest?

[supasnooper]

If it is not legible then it cannot be enforced.

 

The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983,state -:

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the

[vint1954]

There is also a big questiion mark over the terms on the left. Doubtful if these were there on the original.

 

Have a look here.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/199750-mbna-agreements-application-forms.html

[TwoTicky]

Hi, thanks for your replies.

 

To Vint1954, the link that I provided is from that library, my agreement is the same is that one. I have had a look at the library again and cannot find any comments about them being "altered".

 

Are the examples provided in the library ligit copies? My agreement is from 2003, if that helps.

 

Regards.

[vint1954]

The copies in the Library are as received from MBNA. It has long been suspected, that this type of agreement is a cut and paste, or to put it more politely, reconstructed. It looks as though a column has been cut from another document and pasted on the side.

 

If you go back to the 90's agreements then look at the recent agreements, they are all signed by the same person at MBNA. Obviously not bored with their job, having been in the same department for 12 years plus, without promotion;).

 

Bet they can't find the real one.

[TwoTicky]

Has anyone you know of actually seen their original agreement?

[ASM]

Hi all,

 

I would also be intersted to know if anyone has actually seen a original of this (not a copy) since I have just received a similar application and it would really be great to contest this!!!

 

Thanks

ASM

[blueotter]

I would think the only way you'd see an original would be in a courtroom.

 

I have an ongoing dispute with mbna at the moment,well i did until they sold it to capquest.

It took 3-4 months for mine to arrive and all the while they offered me deals or threatened this that and the other. On the day it finally arrived it was accompanied by a default letter (defective i may add).

 

Now you could summise from all this that mbna are well aware that the cca they sent me isn't enforceable otherwise why bother to delay sending it and then rather than deal with me,sell the account direct to a dca.

 

There are many many threads with similar stories,some have made a courtroom and been overturned,some are languishing in dca hell and some are still waiting for their cca after 6 months !!

Everybody has a story to tell when it comes to this mob.

[vint1954]

I would think the only way you'd see an original would be in a courtroom.

 

I have an ongoing dispute with mbna at the moment,well i did until they sold it to capquest.

It took 3-4 months for mine to arrive and all the while they offered me deals or threatened this that and the other. On the day it finally arrived it was accompanied by a default letter (defective i may add).

 

Now you could summise from all this that mbna are well aware that the cca they sent me isn't enforceable otherwise why bother to delay sending it and then rather than deal with me,sell the account direct to a dca.

 

There are many many threads with similar stories,some have made a courtroom and been overturned,some are languishing in dca hell and some are still waiting for their cca after 6 months !!

Everybody has a story to tell when it comes to this mob.

That's absolutely right blueotter, the only place will be in court, if then. I have a sneeking suspicion that they shredded most agreements. This is why yopu only see a hybrid agreement, with a scanned front page and any old prescribed terms pasted to the agreement.

 

I think you need to understand their objectives, when they realise that they do not have a complient agreement.

 

1. Harrass and intimidate you to try and make you pay.

 

2. Pressurize you to settle short or admit the agreement.

 

3. Further harrassment to get you to pay something.

 

4. Add charges and interest to bump up the value of the account.

 

5. Close the account and sell for what they can get ( remember this is an inflated sum via charges and incorrect interest addition )

 

6. Claim tax releif as a bad debt on the inflated sum.

 

7. Move on to the next poor chump.

[blueotter]

Absolutely spot on Vinnt,the first 5 of those steps were directly applied to me.

It’s wretched what they can do to a persons life and its all brought about by extreme greed through obscene practices. As was pointed out the other day ,they suck the blood and continue taking it until there's no more to give. Then they up sticks and move onto the next victim,but not before handing the carcass onto another form of amoeba.Modern day vampires.

[Gazza112]

Has anyone you know of actually seen their original agreement?

 

 

Hi Two Ticky

 

I had one the same as yours and it was 2003, never had a look at my originals. Anyway the account was sold on to CL Finance, who took out a Court Claim, but never got past the AQ's stage and it was struck out.

Putting in a claim to the Courts now for wasted costs.

 

Gaz

[vint1954]

Hi Two Ticky

 

I had one the same as yours and it was 2003, never had a look at my originals. Anyway the account was sold on to CL Finance, who took out a Court Claim, but never got past the AQ's stage and it was struck out.

Putting in a claim to the Courts now for wasted costs.

 

Gaz

Hi Gaz, can you remind me why yours was struck out.

 

Vint

[Gazza112]

Hi Vint

 

Mine was struck out as they never filed there AQ's.

The other one the case was struck out as there never produced the originals on the day of the hearing.

 

Gaz

[vint1954]

Hi Vint

 

Mine was struck out as they never filed there AQ's.

The other one the case was struck out as there never produced the originals on the day of the hearing.

 

Gaz

Marvelous:D

[wrungout]

Has anyone you know of actually seen their original agreement?

 

I have a similar agreement with the T&C's down the side and I have a copy of the original and can vouch for everything being on the same page.

 

The potential issues I have with it are as follows:

 

Sidebar with T&C's are in very small font and not legible without additional magnification

No lender signature

NO default info or charges anywhere.

Heading is "Credit Agreement...." not "Credit CARD Agreememt.....".

 

Prsumably yours will be the same, not sure whether this would make it unenforceable, perhaps Supasnooper could give more info on this re post 2.

[ASM]

I'm in the same boat, They sent me a copy - which I have posted up - the terms are on the left hand side (not legible also somewhere at the bottom it says something about condition 14 - but there is no condition 14 on this page anywhere!!- its been suggested that maybe they scanned, cut & pasted the terms on and then sent this to me.

I would like to know more abt this

I'm going to send them a 12 day notice to produce a legible copy - lets see.

am following this thread - gets more & more intersting

 

ASM

[TwoTicky]

Hi Vint

 

Mine was struck out as they never filed there AQ's.

The other one the case was struck out as there never produced the originals on the day of the hearing.

 

Gaz

 

Hi Gaz, what are AQ's?

 

The solicitor I use has just had in several MBNA agreements all at the same time. Apparently MBNA have just lost some case and this is deemed the reason why. I'm not sure of any specifics.

 

I am currently still paying MBNA, but I just noticed that my interest has gone up about 90%. One month the estimated interest for the following month was £x and for the following month's statement the interest charged was £x + 50% and so I went over my limit and was charged for it. I only realised after 2 months because my minimum repayments have now gone up nearly twofold.

 

Anyway I rang them fuming and they said this was correct, I have since cancelled my direct debit and wondering what to do next. I am thinking of hitting them with the subject access and anything else anybody else can think of. Please.

[TwoTicky]

Hi Two Ticky

 

I had one the same as yours and it was 2003, never had a look at my originals. Anyway the account was sold on to CL Finance, who took out a Court Claim, but never got past the AQ's stage and it was struck out.

Putting in a claim to the Courts now for wasted costs.

 

Gaz

 

Hi Gaz again

 

Did you request a copy of your agreement at any point?

[Gazza112]

Hi Gaz again

 

Did you request a copy of your agreement at any point?

 

Hi Two Ticky

 

The AQ's are Allocation Questionare.

Yes, I requested My agreement from MBNA using CCA, 31.16, SAR.

Whem CL Finance/Howard Cohen took it over i used 31.14.

 

Gaz

[vint1954]

I have a similar agreement with the T&C's down the side and I have a copy of the original and can vouch for everything being on the same page.

 

The potential issues I have with it are as follows:

 

Sidebar with T&C's are in very small font and not legible without additional magnification

No lender signature

NO default info or charges anywhere.

Heading is "Credit Agreement...." not "Credit CARD Agreememt.....".

 

Prsumably yours will be the same, not sure whether this would make it unenforceable, perhaps Supasnooper could give more info on this re post 2.

The requirement for Credit Card header only came in around 2006.

 

The prescribed terms being too small to read is a no no though.

[vint1954]

I'm in the same boat, They sent me a copy - which I have posted up - the terms are on the left hand side (not legible also somewhere at the bottom it says something about condition 14 - but there is no condition 14 on this page anywhere!!- its been suggested that maybe they scanned, cut & pasted the terms on and then sent this to me.

I would like to know more abt this

I'm going to send them a 12 day notice to produce a legible copy - lets see.

am following this thread - gets more & more intersting

 

ASM

No need to give them another 12 days. just demand a legible copy.

[TwoTicky]

Hi, please could you give me your opinions. Recently my finances have meant that I can't afford my monthly repayments and I have missed my first repayment in years. Should I speak to MBNA or pursue the CCA that I received. The copy they sent me seems to have all the precribed terms (could be a copy and paste job) but it is so small it is illegible.

 

I don't know what course to take, suggestions please.

[Its WAR]

Do both? Try to work things out in the few weeks before you issue the action for a proper CCA, not an unreadable one. Then when they do nothing more, you have a more confident claim for the CCA. You also need to show that you have asked, asked and asked again before issuing the action.

 

I am at the summons issue stage. I guess others are also ahead of me. By the time you get to issue a summons, there will be a few more that will have been there, wearing the T shirts and with big smiles on their faces.

[bobinky]

I was like many of the opinion that you pay what you owe,if it takes a lifetime then thats your fault..until I had problems and just asked for a little leeway from people Ive paid thousands in interest over the years,who penalties Ive paid however extortionate thinking it was my fault for going over etc.

They would give no leeway,nothing.

If you can figure a way to not pay using the law then dont pay.

Ive gone bankrupt and the missis was going to but now Im fighting them tooth and nail to court and beyond(if there is one),they are getting nothing.

[supasnooper]

Hi, please could you give me your opinions. Recently my finances have meant that I can't afford my monthly repayments and I have missed my first repayment in years. Should I speak to MBNA or pursue the CCA that I received. The copy they sent me seems to have all the precribed terms (could be a copy and paste job) but it is so small it is illegible.

 

I don't know what course to take, suggestions please.

 

Why not post up the agreement omitting personal details

 

Have MBNA sent you a Default Notice ?

 

Have you sent off a SAR to MBNA ?

Edited December 5, 2009 by supasnooper
removed irrelevant info