Hello Firstly I'm not sure if this is the correct place for this topic. Also I suspect it may only apply to Scotland. In 2010 the RBS - Wilson case showed RBS didn't follow the correct procedures in their repossession of Wilson's property. The court found in favour of Wilson which opened a huge can of worms for most mortgage lenders who also used much the same (wrongful) procedures as RBS. This means that many properties repossessed prior to 2010 may have been done so wrongly, thereby allowing the debtor (property owner) to recall the decree for repossession. My question is simple. Is there a time limit for a wrongly repossessed home owner to challenge/recall the decree? Thanks.

Horsemad1, Vic, Bigdebtor, thank you all most kindly for your responses, it has been very helpful and shown me much more structure to what I should be doing. This week-end I'll be looking at reclaiming default charges etc., thanks for that BD, glad to see you'll be around till age 200, certainly beats my target. thanks again everyone, hope you have a good week-end, wrungout.

Horsemad1, many thanks for your response, it helps. When you said your accounts were in dispute due to no CCA, charges etc can you tell me if it was always a CCA issue or did you have some in dispute due only to charges (possibly disputed). I have some CCA's which appear to be OK however I also have accounts with charges which to date I haven't disputed. thanks again for taking the time to help, wrungout.

Horsemad1, thanks for your thread, it has been a valuable insight into the world of F&F issues and your results with the expert guidance of The Mould are impressive and encouraging. I hope you won't mind me asking a question on your thread (I will of course open a separate thread if my questions require more than a simple/short response). Recently I made F&F offers to all my CC's most of whom have now responded and rejected my offer. Would this constitute that state of "MEETING OF THE MINDS" referred to above? Or, do they actually have to offer me a F&F offer before that state exists? Also, does the account have to be in dispute in order to use the letter kindly provided by The Mould when sending a F&F offer with a cheque enclosed. (Appreciate some sections would have to be left out if no dispute exists) Would be very grateful for any clarification, thanks, wrungout.

appealing for some help on the above questions, things getting desperate with the constant phone calls, can't see any way out of the mess, really worried that any equity we may have in our property (originally my wife's but I'm now on the mortgage) may be lost due to my debts/arrears. If someone could give some feedback on the question of CC going for bankruptcy I'd be really grateful.

I have a few questions spinning around in my head and would be grateful for any info/advice on the points below. A) Is it common for CC companies to force someone into bankruptcy/sequestration? B) Does the amount outstanding have any bearing on the above ie say in excess of 20K? C) How difficult or easy is it for them to establish whether there is equity in an owned property. D) If there is equity is it possible to sell during any action they may be taking without them realising and then hopefully agree a reasonable F&F settlement? E) If they go for CCJ and it is defended but fails is it still possible to agree a schedule of affordable payments? I expect the reasoning for asking these questions is obvious, just trying to protect my wife's interests, she didn't deserve all this -----, couldn't care less about my own now, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your earlier responses, appreciated. I have a 'good' photocopy of my original form which is similar to Laura's. The PT's are there in the body of the T&C's down the left hand side BUT they are not "easily legible" without some magnification. If Laura's agreement were to be put down in front of a judge and you insisted that he check for him/herself that the PT's were in order I would say they would really struggle. Bearing in mind the microfiche copy would be even less legible what would happen in real life in this situation if it went to court??

Hi Laura, one thing to bear in mind with your above form, the signature on the top left hand corner would have been done internally (probably part of their approval procedure). You would not have had that signature on the copy that you signed and sent off, so this would not constitute a creditor signature which is a requirement on such agreements. Hope this helps.

Hello Buzzard, 1000 apologies from me, didn't intend to hijack your thread, it's just we have some similarities in our circumstances and I was interested in some of the comment made by PGH and cbJimmy. Hoped that any response to my own Q's, which they very kindly gave, might be helpful to both of us. Your CCA requests should be s78 if they are for credit cards, but best wait for confirmation from someone more experienced, I'm still new to it all.

Hi diddydicky, would be interested to know your thoughts on the unenforceability aspects of Laura's agreement (2003), I have a similar one. Thanks for the quoted paragragh in your next post and the related comments. Do you think some judges rule against defences because the defence is built around denial of the existence of a legally binding contract as opposed to what you suggest, in other words you'd be in court solely to disprove the legality of the contract which you accept exists?

Hi Gazza, thanks for the clarification on your case and well done on the costs. Can you remind us what your main defense points were going to be with regard to your Ryanair account, was it the agreement itself or defective DN or suchlike??? OK you're right, I'm off to re-read your thread!!!

Hi, I'm in a similar situation to Buzzard so will be watching this thread with interest. PGH & cbJimmy, sounds like you would recommend sending off C78 request first before writing to all CC's to offer reduced & affordable payments. Have I got this the right way round? I did do CCA to Mvna and got copy of agreement which has prescribed terms albeit they are in tiny print and not easily read without magnification but don't feel i can put account in dispute on this basis. What do you think.

Hi again, all I'm saying is that I have a similar format to yours (and Gazza's) but I kept a copy of the original agreement so I know it isn't a pasted job. I also have two different addresses on mine. So that in itself doesn't necessarily make it a pasted job. Please be careful before levelling any accusations of fraud, in this instance they may be unjustified. Right click my name and you'll find my thread with the agreement. I'll have to go back to Gazza's thread, can't remember how he won his case.

laura I have a similar agreement to your 2003 one and I have a copy of the original from application date. You are correct in that that there are two different addresses but my application/agreement form had everything on the one page. Just wanted to let you know, using words like fraud can get you into trouble if used incorrectly. Not trying to be obstructive, only helpful. I'd be interested to know what advice you may get re placing the account into dispute given that the page is probably genuine.

Just for your info, the claim they make in their letter (from post below) states the following: "4. How can I be satisfied that the original credit agreement was properly executed - especially if you have not supplied a copy showing signatures? The Bank takes its statutory obligations very seriously and would not conclude credit agreements with customers unless it was satisfied they were properly executed and enforceable. We make sure that our customers' credit agreements are properly executed under the Consumer Credit Act ("the Act") by having strict processes in place to ensure that each of our customer's credit agreements: • is signed by both the customer and us, • is sent to the customer in full, • is legible when the customer signs it; and • conforms to the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (as amended) and in particular contains the terms which are required by Schedule 1 and prescribed by Schedule 6 to those Regulations." Where is their signature? It probably didn't appear anywhere else either ie with your card holder letter etc. Any signature or initials that appear on your copy documents will be due to their internal processes but you most likely did not receive any paperwork with their signature when account was opened. Don't know if this helps, will be interested to hear what Vint & others might have to say.

I have a similar agreement with the T&C's down the side and I have a copy of the original and can vouch for everything being on the same page. The potential issues I have with it are as follows: Sidebar with T&C's are in very small font and not legible without additional magnification No lender signature NO default info or charges anywhere. Heading is "Credit Agreement...." not "Credit CARD Agreememt.....". Prsumably yours will be the same, not sure whether this would make it unenforceable, perhaps Supasnooper could give more info on this re post 2.

As this agreement appears to be enforceable is it worthwhile doing a CCA just on the offchance that they may have lost it. Any comments/opinions welcome.

Hi Steven, many thanks for your comments. The application/agreement which you feel is enforceable doesn't have any creditor signature; no clause about default notice or charges; agreement heading is "CREDIT AGREEMENT" as opposed to "credit CARD agreement; and the sidebar with the information was a really small font and quite arguably not legible without some magnification other than normal specs. Do you think this would make any difference in terms of its enforceability? Thanks again for your help, wrungout.

Could someone be kind enough to take a look at my paperwork in posts 5 & 14 above and let me know their thoughts on their validity. Post 5 is the application/agreement; post 14 was sent with the card. I'd be very grateful for any help on this, many thanks.

Quote from Muffintop post No 443 above......"I need to ask a question and as its mbna and another card that has forced me into this position due to trashing my credit file i hope you will allow me to add it to my thread. Due to mbna trashing my file i have had every other card which is enforceable due to the time it was taken out after 07.. withdraw all my credit, halifax inparticular dropped from 5k to nothing. I had 3 bank accounts with heafty overdrafts and they all withdrew it and wanted it back straight away which i have now had to negotiate a drop monthly." Hi Muffintop, I'm working my way through various threads learning as much as I can and picked this up from one of your posts. Could you possibly tell me how badly mbna had trashed your file at this point when other lenders pulled the carpet from under you. Was it just one or two missed payments or had mbna gone into default on your CRA. Just trying to get a handle on the sequence of events, losing your banking facilities like that must have been quite devastating. Also this suggests that the lenders run checks periodically for them to be aware of your mbna stuff, does anyone know how often they do this or is it some kind of ongoing automated check. My concern is if I go into missing payments with say mbna does the rest of the house of cards come down as well? Be grateful for any info you can provide, many thanks.

Hi Snoopyfeet, like you I have paperwork with "CREDIT AGREEMENT" as opposed to credit card agreement so will also be interested to hear if this has any relevance. It doesn't appear to be a prescribed term but may still be important. Hopefully someone will let us know. Good luck in the meantime.

Monty. many thanks for your response above, both encouraging and enlightening. It looks like I may now be where you were when the 5K solicitor fee was not an option, I have much to learn. I have opened a thread in the mbna section hoping that someone could give me some pointers as to the likely validity of the agreement I have and then I will take it from there. Thanks again and I will very likely take up your kind offer of asking for the recommended reading material etc. rgds, wrungout.

Monty, do you mind me asking if you have any knowledge of potential costs in a case like this, is there any kind of average or is it a "length of string" job. Would be grateful for any info you might have in this regard. Thanks.

I'd thought of this too but I do believe there is invaluable help and advice on here from people with detailed knowledge and experience as opposed to the likeilhood you'd be dealing with a paralegal and become just a number in their sausage factory. Just my 2p worth.

MBslayer, Yes the card was attached to this form which they sent out after I'd returned the application/agreement in post 5. The form in post 5 did have some of the relevant terms and it was signed by me (but not mbna). I suppose any lender can easily prove the existence of their terms etc as you suggest but the issue that many seem to utilise is the validity of the primary documents re their minimum requirements.