Sinking vs M&S Chargecard

[sinking]

Reading Manxcat's thread, I wonder if I am in the same situation ?

 

I requested a CCA from M&S on the 10th August 2009, and I received a response on 12th September 2009.

 

Can someone take a look and let me know on their validity ?

 

I guess my concerns are :

 

1. There is no signature from M&S on the Application Form (just a date stamp in the signature field) and no date in the Date field.

 

2. The T&C don't appear to match up in size to the application form, it could be they are cropped and incomplete. In fact I am wondering why the T&C's appear a little transparant and you can see the reverse, but you can't see the same from the Application side ?!?!?

 

3. The form clearly states "Application Form", does this mean it can never be an agreement ?

 

4. There is no Credit Limit detailed, only "Credit Limit Request"

 

5. It is a poor photocopy and is of poor quality.

 

 

 

Here are the Scans :

 

Letter

Application Form

Terms on reverse of Application Form

 

 

Many thanks, S.

Edited September 30, 2009 by sinking

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

I would be definitely be questioning this agreement as the orientation doesn't quite fit.

 

If it was the back page of your agreement, the bleed through from the front should be going down the page, not across the top. The Agreement page is in landscape and the T's&C's are in portrait

 

I assume you have scanned and posted the paperwork exactly as you received it.

 

fox

[sinking]

Thank you Silverfox1961,

 

Well, I have replied to them putting it into Dispute for being :

 

1. Not a True Copy of the Executed Credit Agreement

2. Prescribed details missing

3. No Credit Limit detailed, only a request for Credit Limit

 

Lets see what they come back with.

 

S.

[sinking]

Update :

 

As expected I have received a letter from M&S Money stating dated 8th October 2009 :

 

1. M&S Money believes the copy agreement (application form) posted to me is a legally enforcable document. As such they refute all my allegations.

 

2. The application and agreement form are one and the same. The prescribed terms under section 61(1)(a) are included in the documentation provided.

 

3. As such the required documents have been posted, the account is not in dispute, as such normal collections activity will continue.

 

4. Due to the nature of my query, M&S strongly recommend I seek immedidate independent legal advice regarding the validity of my complaint.

 

5. If they do not hear anything in 8 week, they will consider the matter resolved.

 

=================

 

2nd letter dated 10th October 2009 :

 

The Arrangement for reduced payments (I have been paying £1 a month on this for years) has now expired.

 

If I am unable to increase my payment, please provide details of any other balanaces from creditors I have (there are a lot).

 

Please also provide proof of monthly income.

 

This must be received within 10 days of the receipt of this letter (it only arrived on the 17th although the letter is dated 10th!)

 

=====================

 

My questions, other than the usual what do I do next ?

 

1. My copy of the credit agreement, does not have a signature from any M&S representitive, just a date stamp in the signature box. Does this mean the agreement is not signed by the creditor and as such non-enforcable ?

 

2. There is still no credit limit stated, only a request for a credit limit ?

 

3. I sent a formal notification of Dispute, they responded on 9th October refuting this. However they have sent a letter above pushing for payment. Does the letter constitute them pursueing the debt whilst in dispute and as such against the terms of the Consumer Credit Act ?

 

S.

[hellhasnofury]

Update :

 

As expected I have received a letter from M&S Money stating dated 8th October 2009 :

 

1. M&S Money believes the copy agreement (application form) posted to me is a legally enforcable document. As such they refute all my allegations.

 

2. The application and agreement form are one and the same. The prescribed terms under section 61(1)(a) are included in the documentation provided.

 

3. As such the required documents have been posted, the account is not in dispute, as such normal collections activity will continue.

 

4. Due to the nature of my query, M&S strongly recommend I seek immedidate independent legal advice regarding the validity of my complaint.

 

5. If they do not hear anything in 8 week, they will consider the matter resolved.

 

=================

 

2nd letter dated 10th October 2009 :

 

The Arrangement for reduced payments (I have been paying £1 a month on this for years) has now expired.

 

If I am unable to increase my payment, please provide details of any other balanaces from creditors I have (there are a lot).

 

Please also provide proof of monthly income.

 

This must be received within 10 days of the receipt of this letter (it only arrived on the 17th although the letter is dated 10th!)

 

=====================

 

My questions, other than the usual what do I do next ?

 

1. My copy of the credit agreement, does not have a signature from any M&S representitive, just a date stamp in the signature box. Does this mean the agreement is not signed by the creditor and as such non-enforcable ?

 

2. There is still no credit limit stated, only a request for a credit limit ?

 

3. I sent a formal notification of Dispute, they responded on 9th October refuting this. However they have sent a letter above pushing for payment. Does the letter constitute them pursueing the debt whilst in dispute and as such against the terms of the Consumer Credit Act ?

 

S.

 

Hello Sinking,

 

Just had a look at your ????agreement they sent you. It is a pre-contractual application form, from 1995.

 

Did they upgrade your store card account to the &more credit card account in 2003. If they did where is the agreement for that one????

 

I have had the template letter to increase payments (wasnt making them any:confused:) and we want your income and expenditure. I did write to them regarding the disputed account and told them very very nicely, that I would not concede to their request. Bascially bog off and give me my credit agreement

[silverfox1961]

This is how sad I am. I woke up this morning thinking of this thread:|

 

Have a (long) read of this thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

Going back to your "agreement" If the back was part of the original agreement then when you filled in the front, the whole left hand side would be missing.

 

Have you thought about sending M&S a SAR. I think this would get them to reveal their hand.

[MAGDA]

Hi, I know this thread goes back a long way, but interested, as I have a charge card problem from the same period. Any updates on what happened?

 

Magda

[sinking]

Well,

 

This was part of a whole batch of loans / cards / etc...., I wrote to them all and some could not provide the details of the loans, where as others could provide the agreements, but it was all a mess.

 

In the end I tried to negotiate with all of them, offering 20p in the pound to clear the debts, otherwise my partner would go bankrupt, they all flatly refused to negotiate and subsequently she went bankrupt. She has now passed out of bankruptcy where none of the debts were repaid and no money was recovered by the Insolvency service.

 

About M&S, they were one of the most difficult to deal with and argued that they wanted full repayment, but as my partner went bankrupt, it never got that far.

 

Thanks to all those who helped, and as my partner was on a low income with tax credits and children in a council house, going bankrupt was the best thing she ever did.

 

S.

[MAGDA]

Hi Sinking, glad it all worked out in the end. Bet it was a relief to finally see the back of them all:-D

 

All the best, Magda