Suspended pending investigation thats already happened ?

[majik]

Hi

 

Today was my day off work but as i am the manager and have a part timer in atm i thought i would pop in to see if there are any problems etc as i was driving past.

 

To my surprise my head of HR and Area manger were there, i walked in and was told that i was suspended on full pay with immediate effect and then had a 30 minute "chat" with them as to why etc.

 

The 3 points they have listed are:

 

1. Falsifying timesheets. (Both my own and the part timers).
   
2. Using the compnay van without gaining authority.
   
3. Using the company's internet/computer to "search for a new job".
   
4. Added after the process began. I am accused of giving a pin code/access code to open a roller shutter door at work to my partner. He has a dispute with the ICO at present against the company and wanted to take photo's of CCTV signs on site. I did not give the code to him the staff member on duty did and also CCTV evidence will prove that all he did was take photos of outside cctv signs, he did open the shutter to see if there were signs inside as the staff member wasn't sure.
   

I was asked about the above and i gave my answers and will get a copy of the minutes in the post and they are seeking legal advise as to what action to take next.

 

Firstly i was given no notice that this "chat" was taking place and purely popped into work of the of chance of there being a problem. Surely something like this i should have been notified in writting of ?

 

 

 

 

So in response to the allegations:

1. I am salaried so i struggle to see how i can gain from falsifying my time sheet, they state that this has been going on since April which is when "they" employed a part-timer and "they" told me how i should fill in the time sheets etc as they have changed and i could never get the hours to add up to the part timers contracted hours. At no point has anyone ever informed me i was filling them in wrong so i really cannot understand this issue, if i have been filling them in wrong then fair enough but all it would have taken was someone to say this is how you should do it. Also all time sheets gets signed off by Area Mangers, then HR then Payroll so really this should have been noticed much quicker than it has been if i have been doing it wrong.
   
2. I have never been informed that i need to gain permission to use the company van, the van is owned by the store owners and is insured in the company name with myself as a named driver, when other stores/head office have used this van i have never been provided approval from anyone and i have never been asked to provide it before ? I also replaced the diesel used so i can see no issues with this. I would also like to point out that this happened in May and they have remotely dialled into my work computer to gain the CCTV evidence to prove this although the CCTV evidence only shows my partner getting out the passenger side of the van. Is that even legal, using the CCTV in this way, i was lead to believe that CCTV can only be used for crime provention or crime solution and using it for other purposes like they have are a breach of Data Protection. I would also like to point out that i am a paying customer of the company i work for as well for again for those reasons the was used for company purposes.
   
3. I admit that i did use the company's computer to look at job sites but this was at the same time of my yearly review and as i am paid between £2000 and £4000 less than others managers in the company i was merely looking into what other companies were paying for similair jobs to warrant my claim for a pay rise when i had my wage review.
   
4. I did not give my partner my code and he asked the staff member on duty for a code or key to open to shutter to take photos of any signs regarding CCTV.
   

I have provided my Area manger and HR with the above response and they have said that they need to speak to an outside legal company to discuss what action if any they are going to take.

 

I feel i have been victimised by my Area Manager and i have done nothing to warrent this, they have not managed to provide any strong/real proof that i have done anything wrong with the exception of complaint 3 but my Area Manager has comfirmed that he also uses the jobs sites to regulary check he is paid in line with other companies etc.

 

I have received an email confirming that i am suspended until they contact me in relation to the above claims.

 

What can i do, i feel they are trying to force me to quit and bully me into leaving and with the current job market the way it is i feel i could be out of work for some time ?

 

Can anyone help advise if what they have done is correct and how i can defend myself.

Edited December 10, 2009 by majik
correcting mistakes

[BeauBrummie]

Hi majik,

 

First thing to ask is how long have you worked for the company? longer than 12 months would be good. The following statements assume you have been employed for more than 12 Months.

 

Please do not resign--- even if you feel that is what they want from you it will dilute any future claim you may have.

 

You need to get hold of two things

 

1) Your Terms & Conditions of Employment (Contract)

 

2) Copy of the Company Disciplinary procedures and grievance procedures

 

If you have been employed for less than 12 months this may all be irrelevant.

 

Beau

[majik]

Hi

 

I have been there for almost 13 months so just over the 12 months.

 

1. Yes i have a copy of my contract but not on me now its at home.
   
2. No i do not have this as in the contract it says to refer to company handbook which is an A4 folder kept at work but i am attempting to either get a copy or get a print out of that part if that makes sense.
   

Edited September 20, 2009 by majik

[BeauBrummie]

Hi

 

I have been there for almost 13 months so just over the 12 months.

 

1. Yes i have a copy of my contract but not on me now its at home.
   
2. No i do not have this as in the contract it says to refer to company handbook which is an A4 folder kept at work but i am attempting to either get a copy or get a print out of that part if that makes sense.
   

 

Ok,

 

Get hold of the relevant copies so that you can copy a take away to review---you will not be doing anything wrong. Does the Company have a policy on Internet use and use of company vehicles? and also a specific policy on timesheet submission, if so you need to review these parts of the company handbook also.

 

You will need to look at your Terms & Conditions of Employment just to make sure that the specific accusations against you are not mentioned within your terms that you have signed (assuming you signed).

 

During your meeting today was "Gross Misconduct" mentioned?

 

On what basis were you told you were suspended were you given a detailed explanation.

 

Were you warned about the consequences of todays meeting or was it potraid as purely investigative.

 

At this time it seems to me you have been accused of mis-demeanors which the company view serious enough to suspend and would usually result in a charge of Gross Misconduct. If this is the case then there are a number of issues that need addressing.

 

Beau

[majik]

I was told after the meeting that they were now going to speak to there legal team (outside company) and once it had been decided what action to take they will be in touch.

 

There is a part in my contract which states company telecommunications should not be used for personal reasons but in the year i have been there i have always used it for personal reasons as does every other member of staff at other stores, the are not complaining about the use as such its more that they have screen shots of me on jobs sites eg job centre plus and monster etc. There is no mention of me using the internet for checking emails and facebook etc so i feel that they are unhappy at the sites as opposed to the personal use.

 

I have requested a copy of the handbook be sent to me and i will check there website now but i doubt anything will be on there.

 

I have a signed contract but i was originally enployeed almost 13 months ago in one "role" and was promoted 2 months later into the managers role, i have a copy of the original job offer letter date almost 13 months ago but the took my old contract so the only signed contract i have is dated 11.5 months ago but i have a letter signed by HR stating you start employement with "X" company on 13 months ago.

 

I was told i was suspended pending an outcome from the legal company they use for this kind of thing. (small company about 100 staff members nationwide). I was told that this could range from no action to take, more training needed to warnings or dismissal, Gross misconduct was not mentioned from what i can remember and the other member of staff was advised that they want to get me back in asap as the other staff member is part time so cant cover too much etc.

 

The issues i am accused of are things i have never before been informed were wrong, the internet use is something my area manager advised me to do around my yearly wage review, the van issue is something that my local store/head office dont follow as they are always using my van for personal use but i never get anything to say its ok for them to do it is accepted that as they are insured by the company they can use it provided they replace fuel etc which i did on the 1 time i used it. The timesheet issue is something that i have never been told i was doing wrong so have never been given chance to correct or even been shown how i was doing it wrong. also as the company do not pay overtime and we are both salaried i dont see how it affects anything if they were wront, we are paid the same each and every month ?

Edited September 20, 2009 by majik

[BeauBrummie]

I think you now have to wait for the response from the HR dept but in the meantime try to gather as much info as possible that would enhance your postion should you need it.

 

I would suggest you have a read around this forum for more info, and also have a look here http://www.acas.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=1043 for some further info to help you understand your rights.

 

Beau

[majik]

I spoke to ACAS briefly earlier and they were confused by the fact that they had already investigated the issues and showed me screenshots and CCTV of my partner getting out the van etc but hadn't decided what to do etc, They felt that as they were using the "evidence" they had already gained that i should have been informed of the meeting before hand and given the chance to have someone with me etc but i wasn't.

 

They also felt that i should have been suspended before they investigated anything as my contract clearly states that i can be suspended on full pay pending an investigation but thats it nothing about after an investigation.

 

I have also not done anything different in the year i have been here other than the time sheets and they are differnet as HR changed the layout etc in April, they claim that all done on the new layout are wrong/false but no one has ever spoken to me about how to fill them in or where they are wrong etc.

 

HR Department is actually the head of training who is "standing in" until they replace the 1 HR person that they had which is why i think its being done the way it is, ACAS confirmed that they way things are being done "is not best practice"

Edited September 20, 2009 by majik

[BeauBrummie]

If you look at what has happened so far, you are suspended on full pay pending further enquiries.

 

If as a result of those enquiries disciplinary action is taken against you, you have the right of appeal against the action whatever that may be.

 

Your grounds for appeal will be as ACAS have stated because procedurley the company so far has made a complete hash of the whole matter.

 

As I previously posted I think you need to wait on their next move and you can act accordingly----come back on here and I or someone will be able to help.

 

Beau

[majik]

Many thanks for your help

 

I will have a look into the Data Protection act as i feel bosses looking through CCTV 5 months ago for "evidence" is illegal use of CCTV and i question why they are doing it now and not 5 months ago when i used the van. They have also only showed the part where i return the van not the part where i clearly used it for the purposes it is there for.

 

I will be back when i have more info but have to agree that they have made a proper hash of things so far which is why im so worried given the current climate etc.

Edited September 20, 2009 by majik

[majik]

Hi

 

I have today received a copy of the minutes taken in the meeting and also a letter enclosed with it stating that my disciplenery is on Thursday.

 

There are several issues with the minutes and they were not signed at the end of the meeting. During the minutes and this is included in them it states that only once i have recieved and agreed to the minutes will they will be passed on to (customer support - i think this is the company they are using to ensure everything is legally correct.) I received the minutes in the same envelope as the letter informing me that my disciplinery is Thursday so they have not followed the minutes already ?

It also states in my employee handbook (i have been provided with small extracts but not the whole thing) that should a investigation be required (they have already done it) i will be invited to a meeting and will be asked to sign the minutes at the end of the meeting and be given a copy, This did not happen so i am unsure how to proceed ?

I have requested a copy of the employee handbook and also informed the company that i believe that they have not followed there own procedures for the hearing to take place. I know this to be correct as they have provided me with the extract that clearly proves they have not followed there own procedure.

I have requested another investigate hearing so the meeting can be conducted correctly eg i can be given notice of the meeting, the minutes can be taken correctly and signed correctly at the end of the meeting.

 

I feel i have been given very limited time to defend myself and that they are purely trying to force me to leave, i fully intend to take it to a ET if needed but am unsure whether i should resign before the meeting and then start ET or whether i have to await the outcome of the disiplinery hearing before stating the etc and resigning. My main worry is that given the current state of the job market that they will hinder my attempts to move on my providing me with a bad referance would quite ultimately lead me to financial ruin.

Edited September 20, 2009 by majik

[BeauBrummie]

Hi Majik,

 

Does the letter asking you to attend a Disciplinary Hearing state what accusations you have to answer at the hearing?

 

Also has it invited you to bring a Witness/Friend or Legal Representation.

 

Does it warn you of the consequences of the hearing?

 

You could disagree with the agreement to the minutes but in this instance you can bring that up in the hearing and make sure the person taking notes acknowledges that point.

 

If you resign as I have said before it will weaken your position and I strongly advise you to think very seriously before doing so---after all you do not know what action (if any) is going to be taken. Also if action is taken you will have right of appeal.

 

Beau

[majik]

The letter states that what i am accused of however they have not provided anything that shows i needed authorization the use the company van ? they have also not supplied a copy of the company handbook as i have requested.

 

The letter states i can bring a work colleague (of which there is only 1) or a trade union staff member. due to the limited time frame i feel they have made it very hard for me to do either.

 

The letter also warns that the accusations are very serious and may be Groos Misconduct that could lead to my dismissal however it clearly states in my minutes that i am not going anywhere ?

 

I will bring up the fact that i am not happy with the minutes and that i dont feel the company has followed the minutes/there own greivance procedure.

 

Whilst i do not officially know what the company wish to do they have already informed staff members at another store that i am no longer around so to me it is clear that they are forcing me out. They have made it impossible for me to return by doing what they have done.

[mariefab]

Don't sign the minutes. If you do you are agreeing that everything in the minutes is accurate and complete. They can then use everything in it against you at the Disciplinary meeting.

 

Instead, write a list of the things you disagree with in the minutes and add to that list anything that you feel was left out. State at the bottom that when they amend the minutes to include the changes on your list you will then sign the amended minutes. send that to the 'customer support' people and a copy to your employers.

[majik]

I have not and will not sign the minutes dont worry about that lol.

 

Customer Support is their legal team and HR have already gone to disciplinery based on the unagreed minutes. I can only assume that HR have forwarded the unagreed minutes onto Customer Support and they have already made the decision on what is going to happen.

I will raise my concerns about the minutes and will forward them to HR tomorrow both by email and post but as HR have not responded to my pleas for certain infomation to be made available (i made this plea on Thurday within hours of original investigative hearing) i very much doubt they will respond to this.

Also as the hearing is Thursday it will leave limited time as if i post the letter tomoz they wont get until Tuesday at best, even if they respond same day i will get the same infomation Wednesday/Thursday morning and the hearing is Thursday @ 09.30.

 

I have spoken to my partners union legal team who have advised that i ask for a postponement as i have not had copies of everything needed/been provided with infomation i have specifically again i will attempt to agree this tomorrow but feel that it will be rejected as they as making my life as hard as possible and breaching there own guidelines in the process.

 

I feel i have a very strong case for an ET if needed but worry that if they choose to dismiss me what are the chances of them giving me a bad referance ? clearly i will need a good referance in order to get a new job and worry that without one it will make seeking new employment very differcult in the current climate.

[majik]

Quick update, i was dissmissed for reason 1 however they have acknowledged that i did not intend to gain from it so i struggle to see how it can be classed as deliberate, I was also dismissed for a 4th reason which in the minutes they have acknowledged is not part of the disciplenery procedure, the 4th reason is serious breach of security which they claim was me giving a pin code to my partner, firstly i did not give it to him, secondly he was named as a contact so would have had access to it in either case and thirdly the claim the have carried out a full and thorough investigation in 28 minutes and claim that as another employee states on the phone the she didnt give the pin code to my partner it must have been me, they have not provided any proof that this call took place or provided a witness statement.

 

I have appealed the dismissal mainly because i feel it unfair and will be taking it to an ET if needed.

 

However i have found alternative employement and start on Wednesday, my new employer naturally wants a referance, my previous company only has one member of staff in HR and i have raised a Greivance against her in relation to the way she handled the investigation as advised by my partner's union, What should i do about the referance, do i contact them and ask what they will say, do i do nothing and hope for the best ?

Edited December 11, 2009 by majik

[majik]

Quick update, following my appeal they upheld my appeal to allegation 2 and confirmed that they have no proof that i gained in relation to allegation 1 and that they cannot confirm when allegation 3 one way or the other so i have basically been sacked for allegation 4 which to date no proof/evidence has ever been provided and it is acknowledged in the disciplinary minutes that it is not part of my disciplinary process.

 

ET paperwork has now been filled but would really appreciate some advice, i have never been through this before and am struggling to get my head around how i can be sacked for an offense that they have not provided any evidence for and that is acknowledged as not being involved as part of my disciplinary process.

 

Majik

Edited December 11, 2009 by majik

[monkeychicken]

It seems to me that you have a strong case for unfair dismissal. Perhaps someone can advise if it falls within one of the 'automatically unfair' categories.

[majik]

I feel that aswell, papers have been filled so i guess we i will find out soon enough.

 

Just after advice from anyone who has been through an ET and wanted some info as to how it works and what its like etc.

[mariefab]

I'm a bit confused by your post #16.

You say that, 'they upheld allegation 1'.

Surely, this means that they believe that you were guilty of falsifying timesheets.

[majik]

I read it as they upheld my appeal against the complaint as it later goes on to say that they are unable to find any proof that i have gained from the errors. In either case as i have not gained it cannot be classed as deliberate so therefore cannot be classed as Gross Misconduct surely.

[monkeychicken]

I read it as they upheld my appeal against the complaint as it later goes on to say that they are unable to find any proof that i have gained from the errors. In either case as i have not gained it cannot be classed as deliberate so therefore cannot be classed as Gross Misconduct surely.

 

That is normally how they phrase it. I am guessing your reading of the letter is correct.

[majik]

Good Good

 

Well ET Paperwork was filled over the weekend so will hopefully hear back by end of this week whether its been excepted or not and then can enjoy xmas as i doubt they will get there response/defence in before xmas, I assume that they will get longer than 28 days due to the bank holidays and what with it being xmas etc.

 

Really disappointed that it has had to go this far, all im asking for is my loss of earning and my notice and i was back in employment withing 1 month !

 

By there own admission they have no proof of wrongdoing for what i was originally accussed of and ahve dismissed me for something they have to date refused to release any info for so far. Surely that has to be against ACAS code of conduct etc !

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

What was the official reason that they fired you for ?

 

And what evidence did they provide to back this up?

 

Regards

[majik]

The official reason i was dismissed was for allegation 1,2 and 4.

 

Allegation 1 (admitted that no prrof i have gained could be found) and allegation 2 were upheld at my appeal so that only leave allegation 4 for the reason for my dismissal.

 

NO EVIDENCE has been released for allegation 4, i have been told that a witness statement does exsist and the person chairing the appeal meeting has seen it, they are aware that i have not.

 

The only evidence used at the disciplinary was during an adjurnment the person chairing that meeting telephoned another member of staff who verbally explained their side of things and that was accepted as proof that i was lying. It is also noted in the minutes of my disciplinary that allegation 4 is not part of the disciplinary process.

 

This is why i am unsure what to do, they have cleared me of what i was suspended for and also confirmed that allegation 4 is not part of the disciplinary process however as i have been cleared of the other 3 allegations it only leave alleagtion 4 for the reason for dismissal.

Edited December 11, 2009 by majik

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

So what was allegation 4, for exactly ?

 

And how was it introduced into the whole disciplinary process ?

 

I will try and help you as much as possible as i have just won an ET against my old employer.

 

Regards