West Midlands and Rail Travel Complaint?

[Scarsgard]

Bit of a long story, but I shall try to be brief:

 

My partner and I decided to visit Solihull this morning and, boarding a bus in our home town of Willenhall, purchased an £8.60 Family Network Daytripper ticket. (For use on bus and rail services within the West Midlands area). Having made enquiries about saver tickets a few days earlier via the travel enquiries phone service, I was told that the ticket concerned provided travel for 'up to' 2 adults and four children.

 

Our idea for today was to travel to Wolverhampton Train Station by bus, take a train into Birmingham New Street Station and then change trains for Solihull and so on.

 

Having got into Birm. New Street, we made to leave the station, but was stopped by one of the ticket collectors and told that we - as a couple - shouldn't have been travelling on the ticket concerned. Apparently, this wasn't designed for only two people and, technically, we had to have at least one child with us in order to use the ticket. The rail staff pointed out that this situation was a fairly common occurrence / mistake and intimated that there had been a number of similar happenings, etc. The staff member concerned helpfully pointed out the bus, travel office nearby and said that we should make a complaint / enquiries there.

 

However..... prior to our visiting the travel office, an 'official' gentleman from New Street came over and first informed us that we had to actually purchase rail tickets for the journey 'that we had just made' - coming to £8.40 for the pair of us - in order to be able to leave the station!! While the staff were fairly courteous, we were 'escorted' by the staff member - in front of other commuters and so on - to a ticket desk and made to pay, etc.

 

Having finally left the station, we went into the travel office and explained the situation to the woman at the enquiries desk. She also said that this was a common occurence, giving us the necessary phone number to contact - for West Midlands Travel - once we'd got home and so on. She said that we 'should' be reimbursed for the cost of the ticket.

 

So, having returned home, I phoned the number concerned and lodged a complaint with a very nice sounding lady who assured me that an investigation would be set under way (no mention of 'when', however?) and the necessary steps taken on completion of the investigation...... (No mention of being reimbursed).

 

At the end of the day, I would like to know why these tickets are openly being sold to travellers by WM Travel without some form of warning regarding how many people 'should be' travelling on them! (This was a matter also mentioned by the rail staff). What had been intended as a reasonably 'cheap day out' to Solihull has actually cost us £17 for a journey from our home to Birmingham New Street and back again. Speaking as someone who lives on disability allowance, I have to admit that this is £17 that we could ill afford and, of course, no idea of whether we might actually be getting this money back......

 

I'd welcome any comments / advice on this situation please?

 

Regards,

 

Scarsgard

[BankFodder]

are you sure that these terms and conditions aren't written somewhere -- even though they might not be easily accessible?

 

If you think that there really is an omission in their terms and conditions, then I would say that the first ticket is valid and is binding on them as it forms a valid contract and that you could sue on it.

 

I find that these internal complaints processes are generally speaking a complete waste of time. They tend to tire you out and make you give up.

 

Although there is very little money at stake, if you want to make a real impact with your complaint then you should sue in the County Court. If you want to do this then write them a letter threatening seven days for the return of your money or you will sue. Then sue.

 

If you don't feel like carry out this threat -- and it is an inconvenient thing to do, then don't make the threat. In that case simply pursue your complaint but be prepared to hard work and disappointment

[Scarsgard]

Thank you for the reply BankFodder....

 

There is a good chance that the terms and conditions are indeed written 'somewhere', but such information isn't made avaliable / clear to prospective customers when making enquiries via an official travel related information line... nor on the buses themselves when you purchase the tickets. There is nothing at all on the ticket itself, as this is a standard WM Travel bus ticket with the name, date and price of whatever ticket you've bought on the front.

 

If the problem is occurring at the volume outlined to us, I cannot understand why the rail services haven't pursued the matter more vigourously? (Of course, they do make a fair amount of money out of the mistake, so perhaps that is the reason at the end of the day). Also, if all train stations platforms were manned by ticket collectors - as in the good old days - we would have been alerted to the matter when we got to Wolverhampton on the opening leg of the journey, not after hitting Brum, when it was too late (and more expensive to rectify).

 

Regards,

 

Scarsgard

[sailor sam]

Thank you for the reply BankFodder....

 

There is a good chance that the terms and conditions are indeed written 'somewhere', but such information isn't made avaliable / clear to prospective customers when making enquiries via an official travel related information line... nor on the buses themselves when you purchase the tickets. There is nothing at all on the ticket itself, as this is a standard WM Travel bus ticket with the name, date and price of whatever ticket you've bought on the front.

 

If the problem is occurring at the volume outlined to us, I cannot understand why the rail services haven't pursued the matter more vigourously? (Of course, they do make a fair amount of money out of the mistake, so perhaps that is the reason at the end of the day). Also, if all train stations platforms were manned by ticket collectors - as in the good old days - we would have been alerted to the matter when we got to Wolverhampton on the opening leg of the journey, not after hitting Brum, when it was too late (and more expensive to rectify).

 

Regards,

 

Scarsgard

 

OK I've worked for WMT so I know a little how this works.

 

First of all if a ticket is described as 'Family' (whether it be bus, train ect), it will mean that it is only valid with children. They are designed to offer affordable travel for families with children and used correctly are very good value in my opinion. They are not intended for use by just adults. For eaxmple; A 'family railcard' will give up to a third off the normal cost of a train ticket but it is only valid if at least one child is included in the entire journey.

 

The terms and conditions of the ticket should have been made known to you when you made the enquiry but essentially for the ticket to be vaild, it needs to be used by at least one adult and one child. If you bought the ticket on the bus then you would have got a normal 'paper-type' ticket which is impossible to contain the terms and conditions for every type of ticket that it can be issued for. So it will simply say; 'Subject to conditions of carriage' on it somewhere.

 

I can however appreciate that the less experienced public-transport user may not totally understand the concept of a family ticket but I think realistically unless you can prove you were 'miss-informed' by the telephone enquiry service, I think you will have little succsess in any form of claim.

Edited September 10, 2009 by sailor sam
spelling

[Scarsgard]

Thanks for the post Sailor Sam.

 

Re. being an 'inexperienced' public transport user - I have held a WM Travel pass for the past 25 years. ('Only' a WM pass though, not a Centro one, so all of my custom has gone into this company for a quarter of a century..... which is a bit of an irony, under the circumstances). I have relied on public transport all of my life, including the past 16 years with a family in tow!

 

My query about this matter is the fact that (after being stopped at the station) we were told that the bus company allowed you to travel as a couple with one of these tickets - but 'not' the train services????? Where does someone stand on that, I cannot help wondering? Sold to be used for both services, apparently, but evidently not when you try and use the ticket?

 

At the end of the day, we were told that the driver shouldn't have issued the ticket to only a couple - quite clear to the driver if he basically knows the adults have to have a child in tow (which we obviously didn't) - so why is this still being done if those issuing the ticket know there might be a legal problem somewhere along the journey? The woman in the travel office said that drivers were issuing these tickets because they thought that they were giving you a good deal..... Evidently not, it seems.

 

Regards and thanks,

 

Scarsgard

[gazab41]

hi this is extremly comon hundreds of these tickets have been sold to couples sometimes you have no hassle using them and on occasions like yours and ours you have an offisos inspector a joke indeed

[sailor sam]

My query about this matter is the fact that (after being stopped at the station) we were told that the bus company allowed you to travel as a couple with one of these tickets - but 'not' the train services????? Where does someone stand on that, I cannot help wondering? Sold to be used for both services, apparently, but evidently not when you try and use the ticket?

 

At the end of the day, we were told that the driver shouldn't have issued the ticket to only a couple - quite clear to the driver if he basically knows the adults have to have a child in tow (which we obviously didn't) - so why is this still being done if those issuing the ticket know there might be a legal problem somewhere along the journey? The woman in the travel office said that drivers were issuing these tickets because they thought that they were giving you a good deal..... Evidently not, it seems.

 

Regards and thanks,

 

Scarsgard

 

You are quite right; the bus driver should not have sold you the ticket in the first place. Unfotunately, a large percentage of drivers do not do the job correctly but in their defence, there are so many different types of tickets and rules ect that they have to deal with in addition to driving the bus in sometimes difficult conditions, some of them just don't bother and I know this for a fact. In addition, this particular ticket is no doubt not issued very often by most bus drivers so it is likely they are not familiar with the rules. Now days, it is almost impossible to do the job of a bus driver to how it should be done! You can imagine how it would be if the drivers were to scrutinize every transaction to make sure all the requirements in respect of 'conditions of carriage' are met.... the buses would never reach their destinations!!! Your problem was only picked up because New Street has a ticket barrier in operation and the inspectors only have one job to do as opposed to the bus driver and thats checking tickets!

 

On the other side of the coin however, there are a few people who try and dupe drivers into issuing a family ticket saying they are meeting their 'grandchildren/neices nephews' ect later in the journey. This is because 2 adult day tickets are obviously more expensive than one family ticket and the inspectors are fully aware of this!

 

All of the above dosn't excuse your predicament of course, and in my opinion it is down to a combination of the complexities of the whole ticket structure and the lack of ticket training by WMT of it's drivers.

 

My suggestion therefore is that you take this issue up with Travel West Midlands and provide them with as much evidence (including the original ticket and the subsiquent tickets you had to puchase as a result of this). At the very least they should refund you the cost of the family ticket which was obviously issued in error. In the interest of customer relations, they may refund for the additional tickets to cover your inconvenience altough these are what you should of purchased in the first place so if they do, that would be a bonus.

 

Good luck!

[Scarsgard]

Hi Gazab41 and Sailor Sam - thanks for the comments.

 

I do understand the fact that drivers cannot know everything about all of the tickets they're supposed to be able to supply...... on the whole, after using buses in order to 'get around' all of my life literally, I only have a couple of actual complaints about drivers in all of that time, which is pretty good going really! Unfortunately, when mistakes are made, it does seem an irony that customers seem to require a complete and intimate knowledge of travel conditions where drivers possibly don't though??:-D

 

Re. being reimbursed - I have (in my written complaint to WMT) mentioned that the rail tickets were bought as a direct result of the original mistake made on their behalf. What hurts more, I must admit - something mentioned to great length by my partner - was generally being made to feel like / being presumed to be criminals by rails staff because of the mistake.

 

Regards to all,

 

Scarsgard

[Scarsgard]

In furtherance to the above - I bumped into an old school friend today who happens to be a WMT bus driver and - having mentioned the matter in question - she said the only reason she knew of the conditions of these tickets was because she had been reprimanded for selling one after a complaint had been lodged!!:-D

 

It does indeed seem a common occurrence!

 

Regards,

 

Scarsgard:-D:-D

[sailor sam]

In furtherance to the above - I bumped into an old school friend today who happens to be a WMT bus driver and - having mentioned the matter in question - she said the only reason she knew of the conditions of these tickets was because she had been reprimanded for selling one after a complaint had been lodged!!:-D

 

It does indeed seem a common occurrence!

 

Regards,

 

Scarsgard:-D:-D

 

Well it looks like another driver is going to get his wrist slapped shortly!

[bongorob]

'For up to 6 people, no more than 2 can be 16 or over, each group must contain at least 1 adult and 1 child. Valid after 0930 weekdays and all day at weekends and Bank Holiday Mondays.'

 

It is mentioned on the website. At least one child under 16 is needed to allow travel on the ticket.

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

You can buy a Network Daytripper ticket allowing travel after 09:30 hrs at a cost of £5.20 each, before 9:30 the cost is £6.50.

This allows travel on most buses, all trains, and the metro within the CENTRO region

[Old-CodJA]

You can buy a Network Daytripper ticket allowing travel after 09:30 hrs at a cost of £5.20 each, before 9:30 the cost is £6.50.

This allows travel on most buses, all trains, and the metro within the CENTRO region

 

For full info on Network Daytripper see this link

 

Network West Midlands - dt

[sailor sam]

Re the last 3 posts, while this is all good advice it dosn't address the subject of the thread. The OP had purchased a ticket after apparently being 'miss-sold' a family ticket. As the OP has pointed out, he/she states they are regular bus users so one would assume they are aware of these other types of tickets.

 

The point is that it appears a lot of drivers who sell these tickets do not know the conditions that go with them!

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Many operators issue these network tickets all of which look different, their drivers often are not aware of the restrictions.

The OP could consider applying for a refund from Centro, it might be rejected as the OP really ought to have checked the terms and conditions before making a purchase.

[7194Knight]

Due to the unreliable service I frequently see many, many people getting to work late. This is even when one of the very early services fail to turn up to begin the journey from the terminus. This must have an impact on the national economy as well as stress caused to the individuals as being thought of as unreliable timekeepers by their employers. It may also mean that an individual loses their job as a result. Despite numerous complaints there seems to be no improvement. Those of use who try to adhere to Government advice to use public transport are being penalised through no fault of our own.Has anyone ever taken legal action against the company for the stress caused as a result of this?