Waterminx v's M&S

[waterminx]

Carried over from the M&S More Money thread....

 

My app form was judged to be the 'same old crap' as sent to other caggers.

 

Am now going to send the 'in dispute' letter....

 

ajs444 - what is the difference between the letter you cut/pasted and the 'Account in Dispute' letter in the forum library? M&S are supposed to be still processing my SAR too. Does it make a difference?

 

They have really sucker-punched me, y'know, they are lovely on the phone!

 

For clarity on this thread - the form copy they sent me

[waterminx]

Right - clear as mud - working on getting the big version!

aaaarrrrggghhh

[waterminx]

BTW - they responded to my SAR with a form - asking me to tick a few spurious boxes and sign as authority

I told them to s*d off - to get on with processing my request which was perfectly clear and signed (crossed thru on a dark red background so they cant copy it).

 

Presume this is bog standard forM&S....

sigh

mnx

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Waterminx!

 

Presume this is bog standard for M&S....

Yep, read almost any M&S Thread, and you will note how they always seem to play silly beggars with signatures etc to delay their response.

 

Standard tactics on their part, trying to buy themselves extra time. A complaint to Trading Standards (WRT s78(1) Request delay) and/or the ICO (WRT SAR Request delays) may be an idea. If everyone did this, the message would get across to the toothless wonders who are supposed to enforce things on our behalf.

 

BTW, here are your Scans:

 

Application Form:

 

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu65/watertrollop/MS_form001.jpg

 

 

2nd Page of Tems plucked from somewhere else:

 

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu65/watertrollop/MS_form002.jpg

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited August 21, 2009 by banker_rhymes_with
Remove Large Images and Replace with Links

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Waterminx!

 

If you need me to delete the above Scans from my Post, just let me know and I can edit the Post to take them out.

 

UPDATE: I've now deleted the Images, but have replaced them with Hyperlinks, so they can still be seen. This was to stop the Thread Width from getting too misaligned, which was making the Screen scroll off to the right.

 

I just copied them over from ajs444's Thread. If you can add thumbnails linked to the larger copies, then I can delete these large scale Scans from here to help get the Thread aligned better.

 

There's a DIY Guide to how to use Photobucket in the CAG Forum Library I think, yes, these may help you:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html#post1027594

 

And...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/165941-photobucket-video-tutorial.html#post1785826

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited August 21, 2009 by banker_rhymes_with
Clarity.

[waterminx]

Hello BRW!

 

Thanks everso for the help - I am completely pants with this photo bucket thing.

I am ok with having these docs 'loud and proud' - I hope they help someone else.

Unless they are a problem for the site I am happy for them to stay as they are.

My 'dispute' letter will be received by M&S today. I am ready for the fray, thanks to you, and folk like you on this site.

I now have Barclaycard and M&S 'in dispute' - so must tackle the issue of my barclays accounts.

 

Onward and upwards

 

Thanks again -

Minx

[waterminx]

BTW - M&S and Barclays have not responded to my SAR ...... sent 42 days ago. Is that a rule broken?

Cheers

Minx

[citizenB]

This thread has been moved to the newly opened M&S Forums

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello CB!

 

This thread has been moved to the newly opened M&S Forums

 

Excellent news, now we can give M&S an even harder time for being so slack.

 

People will soon see how M&S just grabs any old Terms and sends them to many people in the hope they will think they were the actual Terms applicable.

 

M&S have no idea which Terms go with which Application Form, and yet seem happy to mislead people in this way.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[waterminx]

Still reeling from the knowledge that these buggers sent me a copy of T's and C's trying to mislead me into thinking it was mine.

 

Now it seems I too am subject to the M&S piddling about - they are avoiding my SAR request with their demand for a signature - specifically - a signature on THEIR authorisation form.

 

I signed my original request - crossed it through and blocked the background in dark red so it cannot be copied.

 

I have already written and told them that I feel my written, signed authority was enough for them to action my request and I have already provided the information they ask for on their form. I see no need to complete THEIR form - there is no more information on there than I have already given.

 

So - questions -

 

1. They are now SO overdue on the SAR its not true. What does that mean? I know that an overdue CCA request has consequences but cannot find out what the consequences are of an overdue SAR.

 

2. I plan to write back and insist that they dont need my signature on their authority. That my signature on my letter was enough and there is no further 'identification' they should require. Am I doing the right thing?

 

3. They are time wasting and I plan to complain to OFT. Again - thats right innit???

 

Ta for any help - again!!!

 

Minx

[ajs444]

OFT will sit on the fence regarding this, they see it as a legal matter and will not get involved.

[waterminx]

Ah yes but - the complaint to OFT will be about timewasting on thier process - unless you complain to someone then there arent any stats or evidence and they will think that all is hunky dory. Thats my view on it.

 

Meantime - the SAR question frustrates me. If you CCA them - they get 12+2 working days and after that they have clearly broken a rule and are in the wrong - also there are certain consequences - like they cant sell you onto a DCA etc....

 

There is a 40day (working?) limit on a SAR but I cannot see any correspondence or anything which deals with people who have just ignored my SAR request (like M&S and, while I am at it, Barclays Bank). Surely there is SOME comeback or miffed letter at least????

 

Ta for any help on that from anyone!

[citizenB]

Once the 40 days are up you can make a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office. Sadly they appear to be swamped with complaints and CAGers are reporting that their complaints are taking up to a year to be dealt with.

 

You can go down the court route this would mean sending a Letter before Action, giving M&S 7/14 days to respond. If you do this, you MUST follow through.

 

Alternatively you could send them one further letter saying you can see no good reason why they would want to be so obstructive. Perhaps they would be so good as to explain why they are prevaricating over the dispatch of your Subject Access Request.

 

You could remind them that you have available to you, 2 options shold they continue to prevent you access to data you have a legal right to. You can report them to the Information Commissioner or you could issue a claim via the County Court in order to have a Judge order compliance.

[citizenB]

Data Protection Act Good Practice Notes:

 

2. Do you have enough information to be sure of the requester’s identity?

Often you will have no reason to doubt a person’s identity. For example, if a person with whom you have regular contact sends a letter from their known address it may be safe to assume that they are who they say they are.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...1&d=1242456802

 

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/checklist_for_handling_requests_for_personal_information.pdf

 

HTH

[waterminx]

Thats BRILLIANT - thank you so much Citizen B.

I have already replied with a very strong argument as to why they have no reason to question my identity at this late stage. But this info will stand me in good stead when they reply with more nonesense - which they surely will. Your help is VERY much appreciated.

 

I am happy enough with the general status quo at the moment so wont go the court route unless really have to. We are in dispute (well I am - I dont know if they agree, yet ) since they havent supplied an executable CCA in my view. I was using the SAR from that perspective, rather than looking for refundable charges at the moment which is, I am sure, the reason why they are prevaricating.

 

Just having these buggers kept at arms length for a while at least frees me up to find a job - which is where my problems started. Why dont they get the simple equation of :

 

no job=no money, no money=no repayments, no repayments=harrassment, dealing with harrassment=notime to find a job=no job........

 

Do you remember the song "theres a hole in my bucket??"

 

Anyhow - thanks again - this site is a life saver! Its the only way I get a nights sleep and that aint no exaggeration.

 

Cheers

Minx

[citizenB]

Thats BRILLIANT - thank you so much Citizen B.

I have already replied with a very strong argument as to why they have no reason to question my identity at this late stage. But this info will stand me in good stead when they reply with more nonesense - which they surely will. Your help is VERY much appreciated.

 

I am happy enough with the general status quo at the moment so wont go the court route unless really have to. We are in dispute (well I am - I dont know if they agree, yet ) since they havent supplied an executable CCA in my view. I was using the SAR from that perspective, rather than looking for refundable charges at the moment which is, I am sure, the reason why they are prevaricating.

 

Just having these buggers kept at arms length for a while at least frees me up to find a job - which is where my problems started. Why dont they get the simple equation of :

 

no job=no money, no money=no repayments, no repayments=harrassment, dealing with harrassment=notime to find a job=no job........

 

Do you remember the song "theres a hole in my bucket??"

 

Anyhow - thanks again - this site is a life saver! Its the only way I get a nights sleep and that aint no exaggeration.

 

Cheers

Minx

 

 

Yep, perhaps you could find the lyrics and send them to the CEO of M&S

[waterminx]

So I now have a response to my 'Account in Dispute Letter'

 

Help - they have also sent a FINAL DEMAND which requires me to contact them in 48 hours and states that no more reminders will be sent.

 

Neither letter is dated - nor can a date be derived from the envelope.

 

So - where am I now? What happens, if they dont 'agree' that the account is in dispute - I believe that the form they have sent me is not enforceable, of course, but they disagree and are threatening to pass it to their debt collection team and register the default with the CRAs - all the things they shouldnt do if the account is in dispute.

 

Suggestions anyone????

 

My first instinct is to write and tell them that what they have sent me does not represent an enforceable document. This is especially since I am now aware that the exact same second page has been sent to hundreds of other people. This isnt the first time that M&S has tried to mislead me - and I have my complaint about that in writing. I feel really angry that they have consciously tried to pull the wool over my eyes. Surely this much-copied document cannot in any way shape or form, constitute a 'true copy' of my document??

 

or - would i just be prolonging the argument?

 

Whats the next step guys, please! I simply dont have the money for these people - am going for an interview today for a job which will only just cover my priority outgoings. Until something more lucrative comes along - I am stuffed!

 

ta

Minx

Edited September 2, 2009 by waterminx
change to link info

[waterminx]

Deleted post

Edited September 2, 2009 by waterminx
wrong info

[waterminx]

deleted post

Edited September 2, 2009 by waterminx
wrong info

[waterminx]

[waterminx]

[citizenB]

So I now have a response to my 'Account in Dispute Letter'

 

Help - they have also sent a FINAL DEMAND which requires me to contact them in 48 hours and states that no more reminders will be sent.

 

Neither letter is dated - nor can a date be derived from the envelope.

 

So - where am I now? What happens, if they dont 'agree' that the account is in dispute - I believe that the form they have sent me is not enforceable, of course, but they disagree and are threatening to pass it to their debt collection team and register the default with the CRAs - all the things they shouldnt do if the account is in dispute.

 

Suggestions anyone????

 

My first instinct is to write and tell them that what they have sent me does not represent an enforceable document. This is especially since I am now aware that the exact same second page has been sent to hundreds of other people. This isnt the first time that M&S has tried to mislead me - and I have my complaint about that in writing. I feel really angry that they have consciously tried to pull the wool over my eyes. Surely this much-copied document cannot in any way shape or form, constitute a 'true copy' of my document??

 

or - would i just be prolonging the argument?

 

Whats the next step guys, please! I simply dont have the money for these people - am going for an interview today for a job which will only just cover my priority outgoings. Until something more lucrative comes along - I am stuffed!

 

ta

Minx

 

IMHO, I would ignore this. It is a blantant attempt to have you telephone them.

 

The fact that the letter is undated is evidence of that. Do keep the envelope attached to the letter.

 

The Financial Ombudsman will not ajudicate in matters of agreements, but you could make a complaint to the OFT.

 

Send a copy of the so called agreement and the letter you have received today, along with the letter in the following link.

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/50-complaint-in-respect-of-dca-threat-re-expired-debt/101-complaint-in-respect-of-invalid-cca-agreement

 

The OFT will not intervene on behalf of an individual but they do keep a record of complaints and when they receive sufficient for one company they will investigate. Also they will reply asking for your permission to use your details if/when they do investigate. Make sure you alter your signature significantly on both the letter to the OFT and their signature slip when you receive it. You know to print, not sign your name on communications with M&S

 

You might also like to copy the letter to M&S with a covering letter. which says something along the lines of

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Please find enclosed a copy of a complaint I have today made to the Office of Fair Trading.

 

Yours, etc...

[waterminx]

Thanks Citizen B

Great advice - am on it. Should I add anything about the much copied page or keep that to myself for now? I am inclined toward the latter.... learning to be as sneaky as they are!

thanks again.

 

minx

[waterminx]

btw - they STILL havent responded to my SAR - the time runs out on friday.

[citizenB]

Thanks Citizen B

Great advice - am on it. Should I add anything about the much copied page or keep that to myself for now? I am inclined toward the latter.... learning to be as sneaky as they are!

thanks again.

 

minx

 

You will need to send the "much copied" letter to the OFT to show what M&S are up to.. however you can keep the detail to yourself at this stage.

 

Post up on Friday/Saturday if M&S havent complied with your SAR, we can go through the process of dealing with that once you know for sure they are going to be bl**dy minded.