Link Financial and MBNA Card debt

[HP Mum]

Vint - I never do the lottery but how about: 4, 8, 9, 11, 17, 24.

Randomly chosen....

[pumpytums]

Hi Hp Mum,

looks like your DN is invalid was it for the full amount?

Dated 9/9 means it would be delivered either 13th or 15th which does not give the required 14 days shame that. If you have the envelope keep it safe.

 

Remember 2 days for service 1st Class and 4 for 2nd the days start after the date on letter and 10 & 11 were weekend so they don't count.

 

 

You need to send your SAR to MBN@, you will get the comms log then and you can find the exact date it was sold. Plus you can work out charges etc.

 

 

 

Pumpytums

[vint1954]

Vint - I never do the lottery but how about: 4, 8, 9, 11, 17, 24.

Randomly chosen....

I WILL try those.

[HP Mum]

PT - Actually the DN was for the outstanding arrears, not the whole lot.

I will check my records properly though and revert tonight.

I will also draft the SAR tonight and, after final approval, will special tomorrow, Weds.

[HP Mum]

I have tried drafting a letter. But I am stumbling. I have read all my docs and am confused on exactly what to write as the suggested letter above #23 doesn't fit exactly.

 

I had a dispute with Mbna and was arguing the balance and payment schedule from Oct 08. The account was thus in dispute, yet was still sold on to Link in Jan 09.

 

I have re-checked the letter dates:

The DN from MBNA was 9/1/09. They asked for payment of the arrears by 26/01/09

The letter from Link was dated 30 Jan - BUT they quote "MBNA has, as of 22/01/09, assigned to Link the outstanding balance due under the CCA. The full amount is due to us immediately. The total outstanding balance is £xx."

The balance Link is quoting is the disputed amount (much higher due to costs and charges over my limit).

My S.78 Request letter to Link was specialed on 17/11/09. No reply yet.

 

 

I can see that MBNA screwed up by assigning my debt on the 22/01, 4 days before their deadline to pay the arrears. But Link has been assigned my debt. So I am assuming that I just write to Link now and not MBNA ?? Even though MBNA acted illegally in assigning my disputed debt.

And if Link has the assigned debt then I assume I send the SAR to them ? And not to MBNA ?

 

Any extra advice here ?

[HP Mum]

OK.

I have drafted my SAR, as below.

But who do I send it to ? Link or MBNA ?

 

 

Re:− MBNA Acc# xx/ Link Reference xx

 

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with MBNA.

3. True copies of any notice of assignment and default notices or enforcement notice that you/or name of the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

4. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted.

 

5. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date they were levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charges were calculated, and what the charges cover.

6. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

7. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

8. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

9. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement/s.

10. Termination notices

 

PLEASE NOTE: That unless otherwise stated by yourselves and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be CONFIRMED that you are unable to reproduce/provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents. This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec)

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply all the above documents in line with the Information Commissioners Technical Guidance update (Dated Aug07)

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

 

And regarding Vint's letter suggestion, I have tweeked it a bit.

How does this sound ?

 

"ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE.

 

I write regarding recent communication regarding the above account.

I acknowledge no debt to your organization.

 

Further to my requests under s.78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to MBNA & Link, your attention is drawn to the fact that this account remains subject to a lawful serious dispute. In my letter, dated xx, sent by Special Delivery, I requested that Link supplies me a copy of the executed credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78. A copy of this request is enclosed.

To date, Link has failed to comply with my request - and the law - by supplying no documents whatsoever and ignoring this legal request.

 

Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

 

While this account remains in serious dispute and Link remains in default, the relevant main points of the Law and OFT regulations are:

• You may not ask for payment against this account.
  
• I am not obliged to offer any payment against this account.
  
• You cannot register any data with a third party.
  
• You cannot take any enforcement action, including registering Defaults.
  
• You cannot pass the account on to a third party for collection.
  
• You cannot sell the account.
  

** This is the bit I am having problems writing as I never sent the S.78 request to MBNA, only Link****

You will understand from the above, that failures by MBNA to supply the required documents under the act, preclude the sale of the agreement to yourselves, Link. The breaches of the relevant laws and regulations by MBNA, are now compounded by your organization’s recent communications while the account was legally in dispute with MBNA.

 

I am now granting to Link, a further 7 days to produce a copy of an executable agreement. After that I will consider that the above matter is closed and that you will no longer pursue the alleged debt. If you are unable to supply a compliant copy of the alleged agreement, I would remind you that you are obliged to inform me of that fact. I would suggest that the best course of action would be to immediately set the balance of the above account number to zero.

 

In addition to the above, prior to your involvement in this matter, MBNA have unlawfully rescinded the alleged agreement. This unlawful rescission is fully accepted by me. With reference to s 87 of the CCA 1974, your organisation will be aware of the implications of MBNA’s unlawful actions.

 

I look forward to your response.

I hope someone can step in here and help me tweek the 2 letters I need to write. Would be good to get them off today....

[pumpytums]

Hi HP Mum,

have a read of my thread :-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/225840-pumpy-tums-mbna.html

 

Looks very similar. Again it looks as Vint coined "cart before the donkey" phrase applys.

 

 

They have unlawfully rescinded your agreement. They have terminated it before the DN expired so basically there no longer is an agreement or possible a balance now.

 

Have you an upto date SAR showing the date of sale? If not I would suggest sending a request for one ASAP. In my opinion you need hard evidence that the account was sold to Link. The SAR comms log will confirm this.

 

 

I'm sure Vint will be along very shortly to advise.

 

SAR needs to go to MBNA.

 

 

Pumpytums

Edited December 23, 2009 by pumpytums

[HP Mum]

Is this the correct MBNA address ?

Data Controller

MBNA Europe Bank Ltd

Stansfield House

Chester Business Park

Chester

CH4 9QQ

[postggj]

Hi Hp Mum

 

Well You Have Despatched One Dca

 

Whats The Score On This

 

Any Chance Of An Update

[HP Mum]

Postggj - I have just printed my SAR below and am looking to special it to MBNA today.

I am just trying to work out the best response to Link for not replying to my S.78 Request....(specialed 17/11)

 

Subject Access Request

Please supply me with all data - not limited to my transaction history and not limited merely to 6 years of historical information - which you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with MBNA.

3. True copies of any notice of assignment and default notices or enforcement notice that you sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

4. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date they were levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charges were calculated, and what the charges cover.

5. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

6. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

7. A list of third party agencies to which you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

8. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

9. Termination notices

PLEASE NOTE: That unless otherwise stated by yourselves, and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be confirmed that you are unable to reproduce/provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents. This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec).

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply all the above documents in line with the Information Commissioners Technical Guidance update (Dated Aug 07)

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

Please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable."

 

I am hoping that mbna go the same way as H !!

Do you have any comments ? Extra advice ?

Edited December 23, 2009 by HP Mum

[postggj]

Give Me An Hour

[postggj]

Well This Borders On A Letter Ive Just Done For Another Cagger

 

Hang Tight And Ill Post It

[postggj]

try this with link, recorded delievery

 

 

 

HPMUM

XXxx

Xxx

LINK FINANCIAL

Xxxx

Xxx

Xx

 

Date xxxx

Your ref xxxx

Elevated complaints procedure

 

Dear sir/madam

I am writing you this letter to be dealt with by your own internal complaints procedure.

You contacted me on xyz with ref to an alleged debt with mbna.

On contacting mbna, I was informed that my account has been sold to your company.

On xyz, I made a formal request to link financial for a copy of my agreement under s77 to s 79 of the consumer credit act with your company, link financial.

Link financial has failed to respond to my legal request and I informed them that a state of default now exists between me and link financial.

As you are no doubt aware a creditor is prohibited from any enforcement action while the default continues, that includes adding interest, charges, defaulting and selling the account to an outside party.

In relation to this matter and your legal obligations on this account I would require by return the following documents

1.A true copy of the original agreement

2.A true copy of the original default and termination notice

3.An up to date statement on this alleged account including all charges and interest applied, including dates these debits were applied.

4.A copy of the notice of assignment giving your company legal authority over this account

5.A copy or the recorded delivery track and trace number to comply with service as to the law of property act 1925

 

Yours sincerely

 

Xxxx

[pumpytums]

Hi Hp mum,

I sent my SAR to the following :-

 

Customer Advocate Office

MBNA Europe Bank Ltd

Chester Business Park

Chester

CH4 9FB

 

Hope this helps they replied just under the 40days too.

 

Pumpytums

[HP Mum]

Thank you Postggj.

But now I am having second thoughts. I am just wondering if I should hang fire on sending anything to either of them?

 

The reason I say that is because of my recent dealings with Halifax. H sent a Claim form; I replied and filed a Defence at the same time as sending in CPR 31.14 & 18. This gave them less days, by law, than the SAR route to collate all the necessary info. Within 6 weeks they had abandoned the claim and decided to not pursue the total debt. Yea!

 

So, at the 11th hour before posting my SAR, I am just sitting here wondering if it is better to let Link issue a Claim form to maybe have the same result as with H ?

 

I have paid Link nothing since Aug so I am wondering why they have not issued a claim already, given the months that have passed ? Unless they already know the agreement is unenforceable ?

 

Anyone any insight on this alternative potential route ?

[postggj]

any hint of a dispute and link, just like any dca will just sell it on

 

it costs money to take someone to court

 

if you can put up withthere bs fine

i myself would just ignore

let them issue the court claim and then defend

 

but thats me and its your choice at the end of the day

[vint1954]

Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

 

Subject Access Request

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement/s and any terms and conditions that applied to the account/s at the time of default and at the time the account/s was/were opened.

2. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR. - delete or add this depending on whether you are sending this to the original creditor/or a debt collection agency

 

3. True copies of any notice of assignment and default notices or enforcement notice that you/or name of the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

4. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account/s, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date/s they were/ it was added and deleted. (if applicable).

 

5. Details of any collection charges added to the account/s; specifically, the date they were/it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was/charges were calculated, and what the charge covers/charges cover.

 

6. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account/these accounts and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

 

7. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

 

8. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

 

9. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement/s.

 

10.Termination notices

 

PLEASE NOTE that unless otherwise stated by yourselves and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be CONFIRMED that you are unable to reproduce/provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents. This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec)

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply all the above documents in line with the Information Commissioners Technical Guidance update (Dated August 2007)

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

sign your name but put crosses through it so it can't be 'lifted'

[vint1954]

Hi Hp Mum,

 

It took them 11 months to issue a claim against me. Received it today. Have to work on a defence now.

[vint1954]

Your SAR will give you the termination date. I know what postggj means about letting them take court action, probably best in the end but I do like to have the last letter in the file.

[HP Mum]

Vint - Did they do issue claim electronically and include the CCA and DN? If not, check my thread on Halifax. Others helped on how to a) acknowledge b) defend the whole claim. Which is how mine got abandoned by H.

I need to take a bath and think on this one ! To think on best route for me...

[HP Mum]

P - What does this mean ?

5.A copy or the recorded delivery track and trace number to comply with service as to the law of property act 1925

[postggj]

Under The Law Of Property Act 1925

A Notice Of Assignment By The New Creditor Needs To Be Served On The Debtor By Registered/recorded Mail

 

With Out It, The Creditor Has No Claim Or Cause For Action

 

In English

 

They Are Stuffed

[postggj]

May I Ask Where You Got 5a From

 

That Legislation Is Under Paragraph 196 Section 4 Of The Law Of Property Act 1925

[HP Mum]

Not 5a. 5. A copy..... just not that much space between 5 and A. sorry for the confusion....

Thank you for the clarification. That is very interesting. I never got the letter from Link by registered post.

Hmm. Need to consider what to do.

But also have kids presents to wrap, so this will have to wait til tomorrow !!

[gezwee]

NOA would need to be served by hand of the assignor (MBNA) by registered post.

 

No NOA from MBNA, no rights to issue proceedings from a third party DCA without bringing MBNA into the fold.

 

In such circumstance, if you are ever issued an N1 by a DCA (unlikely to be honest) and they do not enter the OC as party to claim it wouldnt take much effort to have it struck out.

 

Absolute assignment must be effected prior to comencement of proceedings.

 

Equitable assignment (different animal altogether) is generally the case for DCA's and the term 'sold' or 'purchased' is their preferred turn of phrase with their hello letter. In basic terms it offers them a contractual right/duty to collect the 'debt' but offers them little else in the way of legal recourse.......... thats why most are apallingly rude and keen to issue threats and little else.