Marlin/Phoenix CCJ on HSBC OD debt now want SD - Charging Order objection - ***WON***

[robcag]

Hi Molly

 

All highly confusing as far as I'm concerned.

 

What I received was a letter from Marlin broadly similar to yours, headed;

NOTICE OF ASSIGNMENT

then detailing the Assignor, Assignee, Assignment date (which I don't believe because there was an ongoing court case with HFC at that time, I was actually in court v HFC 2 days after the date claimed, so somebody was obviously lying )

 

As palomino says, I didn't get anything from HFC.

 

Back to your stuff, I tend to agree with you that the letter claiming to be from HSBC probably came from Marlin. It is quite common for slimey debt collectors to pass off a letter claiming to be from the alleged assignor, in fact it has happened to me on more than 1 occasion, made obvious by the fact it arrived in the same envelope, or the return address on the envelope was that of the claimed assignee.

 

Did your 2 letters arrive in the same envelope, and did you keep it (or them)? tip; keep all envelopes with the letters.

 

Your letter from HSBC says that they have assigned the debt to Phoenix - OK quite possible, end of story as far as HSBC are concerned.

 

However the letter then goes on a couple of paragraphs later to say that Phoenix have now appointed Marlin as their agent. How or why would HSBC be concerned with or know what Phoenix do with it once it's passed out of the hands of HSBC? Stinks of Marlin/Phoenix to me.

 

I believe from what I've read on these forums that a NoA must state the amount of the alleged debt to be lawful under the Law of Property Act 1925, and I think (BICBW) that it has to be served by Recorded Delivery (ie not standard post). Your letter claiming to come from HSBC has an amount on it, but the Marlin one does not, so I don't know how that affects the situation.

 

Neither of the 2 alleged NoA that I received from Marlin last year have an amount on them, and neither were sent Recorded Delivery, so I won't recall ever receiving them if it suits me .

 

I think Marlins must be feeling the pinch in the current financial climate as I notice on your letter they are asking for you to enclose a stamped addressed envelope (not sure that's legal, but I wouldn't send one) along with the £10 fee should you wish to S.A.R them! Either that, or their local Post Office has been closed!

 

Cheers

Rob

[molly13]

Hi Rob,

 

I hadn't really considered the facts regarding the alleged HSBC notice... but I think you may be right there.

Also in my paperwork from HSBC from S.A.R. there wasn't a copy of the notice!

I shall include that if I get a set aside.

Thanks for that.

 

I complained to Marlin recently about them not having supplied agreement, and today I had their Full and Final response...What a laugh!!

For starters they have not addressed the full complaint..

Butthen it states:

" We believe that you have misunderstood the law in several places"

It goes on to say that a judgment was obtained in xx and a variation order was sougt and an order obtained by me topay instalments of £10 per month. As you have failed to comply with judgment on this account...

 

Actually I have complied fully with the Judgment every month on the dot..

 

The order at redetermination was for £1 NOT £10.!!!!

How incompetent ARE these people???????

 

Now I'll have to report them AGAIN (I've already done this once to the ICO but it hasn't been dealt with yet).

[molly13]

Good afternoon,

I have just gone through all my paperwork and come across a letter from the DCA from last year when I CCA'ed for a joint account. They took my £1 but informed me that as it was a current account they do not need to supply the agreement as it is not covered be the Consumer Credit Act. Is that correct, does anyone know?

Thanks

Molly:)

[tendogs]

morning molly, I think they're correct, a current account is not a credit agreement but you can send them a data subject access request, it'll cost £10 but you should get everything they have including copy statements and, you never know, you might be able to claim back some charges . I'm off now, but I'll pop back later.

Edited March 16, 2009 by tendogs
spilling, agin spolling

[molly13]

Thank you tendogs.

Does that mean also that they do not have to send a Default Notice before taking legal action, or does s.87 still apply to a current account? Any help appreciated..thanks.

Molly

[tendogs]

Morning Molly, did you default?

[molly13]

hi tendogs,

 

Just got a few minutes spare for now.

 

This was a joint account with an agreed o/d limit of £1500. It went over and became £1900 due to the fact that the bank kept taking out payments to cover the loan.We asked them to let us make alternative arrangements to pay the loan, but they absolutely refused.

So yes I suppose we defaulted.

They then sold the debt. Don't think we even got a letter oftermination?

Should we have been sent all this before the debt was sold, do you think?

Thanks again. Gotta go.. I'll get back later

[tendogs]

There should have been a default notice and a notice of assignment. Back later

[molly13]

Hi tendogs,

 

Thanks for that:)

Well we haven't got a default notice, letter of termination and only a dodgy looking NOA. see my other thread valid NoA? (Sorry I don't know how to link it)

Soo, I feel another set aside application coming on:)

Got a hearing date for the other case ..7th April..getting a bit nervous now. Is the other side meantto be there as well?

Anyway with all the super help I've had I think I should be OK. Thanks a lot:)

Molly

[molly13]

Hi,

Just received, supposedly, copy of NoA from HSBC today. It is nothing like

the one previously posted here. Different letter completely, different dates, no details of which department it was issued from..

Someone somewhere is fibbing!!

But what do I do about it?

How do I prove which is the true NoA?

I should mention that I did NOT get one at the time of the assignment.

Any thoughts on this, anyone?

Thank you.

Molly:)

[popeye1]

Does this mean you have 2 NoAs from HSB

[molly13]

Hi popeye,

It would seem so...

But as I said the only supposed NoA I received,was the one posted further up in#8. And that was definateley NOT sentRecorded Delivery. I am a bit doubtful about that one anyway,as if you study the both together they are remarkably similar.

The one received from HSBC from my SAR is totatally different.

I could have typed that one myself. I have kept it stapled to the covering letter just to prove I didn't, should it be neccesary in my set aside hearing.

Molly:)

[questioning]

Hi Molly,

I have noticed a couple of threads where people are applying for a set aside on a CCJ. It might be helpful to give them a read, they have some good points posted in them.

Heres a link to one of them here, the poster is going for a set aside of a CCJ ..... .http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/180864-finding-faulty-cca-agreements.html

[molly13]

Thank you for that link quetioning:)

Will have a read of that..

Molly

[questioning]

Hi tendogs,

 

Thanks for that:)

Well we haven't got a default notice, letter of termination and only a dodgy looking NOA. see my other thread valid NoA? (Sorry I don't know how to link it) I've put the link in for you Molly, http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/188597-valid-notice-assignment.html

Soo, I feel another set aside application coming on:)

Got a hearing date for the other case ..7th April..getting a bit nervous now. Is the other side meantto be there as well?

Anyway with all the super help I've had I think I should be OK. Thanks a lot:)

Molly

 

 

Molly, here is a link where a poster had a CCJ set aside after it had been in place two years, don't know if you are aware of it,

Here it is ... http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/139232-hfc-restons-charging-order.html

 

The only problem that I can see with getting this CCJ set aside is the fact that you admitted the debt on the claim form.

Sorry Molly I'm not trying to put a downer on you, just pointing out what I feel could be a problem. I don't know what you think about this. As I said it would be good to see what others think. It's always good to think how the other side might try and counter you.

Perhaps Tendogs will comment on this from there experiences of a CCJ set aside.

 

Good luck, Molly,

Keep us posted.

Edited April 7, 2009 by questioning
spelling

[tendogs]

Morning Molly, I've not deserted you, it's been a pig of a weekend and I'm just off to court this morning for 10.45. I'll pop back when I return.

[molly13]

Hi questioning

 

I will be claiming ignorance of the facts re. no agreement, no default notice and dodgy notice of assignment at the time. (Unfortunately I got to this site too late.) I am asking for the set aside based on the facts that the claimant did not have the Agreement, admitted by them in a letter to me just after I submitted my defence. So they should, in my opinion,knowing what I know now having read the threads from all you super people on here, have discontinued the claim?? I was adviced at the time by CCCS to dispute interests and costs, these were not awarded to claimant. So I'm not disputing the debt,as such, but the legalities of the right to enforce the debt. Thanks for your input:)

But it's in now and I will just have to see how it goes.

I'm quite nervous now.

Regards Molly

[molly13]

Hi tendogs,

Hope all went well for you.

Regards

Molly:)

[questioning]

Sorry I'm confused, did you submit a defence to the court?

Most of us found this site too late,

I agree with everything you are disputing,

I wish you luck,

You are very brave, Don't be nervous, I've never been to court but its not like a magistrates where you could get SENT DOWN as they say. You are just sat in a room with a judge, a table and the other side, some times the other side don't even turn up.

I admire the fight you have in you.

Edited March 24, 2009 by questioning

[molly13]

Hi questioning,

Thank you for yoursupprt. Much appreciated:)

No, I'm not brave, just fed up to the back teeth with these DCA's thinking they can walk all over people and not play by the rules, especially as most,if not all, of us are quite vulnerable, and I'm not going down without a fight.

Mind you couldn't have done it without the info and help from this site.

I'll keep you posted..

Regards

Molly

[molly13]

Hi all,

 

Just got another quick question, before I wade in with an application for set aside, if anyone can help pls?

 

The POC on claim form the Claimant states:

 

By an Agreementmade in writing btween HSBC Bank PLC (HSBC) and the Defendant dated XXXX 1990 .....

 

??? In 1990 it was the Midland Bank...

HSBC only got a controlling interest in 1992... and only took over as HSBC in 1999...

 

Must add, that I have not had agreement as requested as it is a current account..

 

My question is: How can they then state HSBC on POC?

 

All help appreciated, thanks

Molly:)

[questioning]

Hi Molly,

I have been reading a post where Jon888999 had gained a successful set-aside of a CCJ awarded in the past.

His post here might be useful

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/178491-hsbc-gold-card-ccj-2.html#post2072053

Don't know if you have any letters with mis leading info on them, I know I have from HSBC, and DG's.

[molly13]

Hi Q,

Thanks for the link.

Will let you know how I get on on 7/4...

Molly

[molly13]

Hello all,

 

Well, had the set-aside hearing today... not good I'm afraid.

 

The Claimants witness statement only arrived about an hour before the hearing, and focused mainly on the abscence of the agreement, without any mention of the missing Default Notice .

 

"The Claimant believes it would be unjust to set aside a Judgment MERELY because a Loan Agreement has not been produced"

 

The Judge asked a few questions as to why I had admitted the Claim and disregarded my explanation that I was ignorant to laws regarding CCA at the time.

 

His comments were:

 

"You admitted you owed money so there must have been an agreement"

 

(Without having seen it I don't know whether it was enforceable or not.

I CCA'ed the Claimant last May and have to date not received it.)

 

The fact in CCA77 regarding enforceability did not interest him in the slightest.

 

With regard to saying I did not have a Default Notice his comments were:

 

"As the Original Creditor is a large Financial Institution these notices would have been sent automatically, you must have mislaid it"

 

Never mind the fact that I informed him that a S.A.R had not turned up the Default Notice.

 

As to Notices of Assignment of which I have 2 different ones with different dates and a different date shown on PoC.( which did not show up in the S.A.R either) the comments were:

 

"Well you have got an assignment which is all that matters"

 

The fact that I had requested Agreement,Default Notice and Notice of Assignment from the Claimant under CPR31.16 did not interest him either.

 

So the upshot was " I can't set aside a Judgment on technicalities"

 

Since when has the law become a technicality?

 

 

I did try to establish the fact that I was disputing the Claimants right to enforce the agreement, not the amount owed, but he did not want to listen it seems.

 

Anyway, I suppose you live and learn, and today has just confirmed to me that the law is a joke.

 

Thank you to all you wonderful people who helped me and post on the board to help others.

 

Keep up the good fight.

 

Molly:-)

[molly13]

CONFUSED..Help please (1 2)

 

Hi again,

 

Further to the above post i still need a little more help please.

 

Does anyone know whether the Claimants can now go for Statutory Demand as threatened in #1 of above? The Court Order is still in place and being paid as ordered.

 

Also how and where do I complain about their breach of s77?

 

Does the Data Protection section 10 still stand? Who do I complain to about that?

 

Sorry for all the questions. I have calmed down a bit now, but I am still furious with the judge ignoring the facts of law.

Thanks in advance

Regards

Molly