My first claim against HSBC - Settled

[Spiceskull]

Well - it's all sadness and gladness at the house of Skull:

 

After much treasonable trepidation I made it to the court, spent an hour asking lots of questions and filling in my forms, and finally...I am suing my bank. Yippee...much gladness to be gained from that, as it was one of the scariest things I have ever done in my life.

 

So, go home to write my complaint to the IC...and what is waiting for me...24 envelopes containing the balance of my DPA request! Bah, humbug - I was so looking forward to writing that letter, and was pipped at the post by a gnat's whisker.

 

Thinking about it, I could have taken my complaint to be posted this morning, before receipt of statements...how stupid would that have made me look?

 

Anyway, once claim is issued I will PM the mods. Oooohh, 'int it exciting, chuck?

[Spiceskull]

My complaint to IC is back on - as pointed out by my 'batty' friend.

 

All I received was a pile of statements - and I SPECIFICALLY requested details of manual intervention, or confirmation if this did not occur. No letter, no acknowledgement = big spicey and skully complaint. Hooray.

[Spiceskull]

Surprise surprise: I secure mailed the bank yesterday evening, explaining that two deadlines had expired, and that today I would be taking action. Today I received this response:

Thank you for your e-message received 20 April 2006.

I notice that the relevant department is dealing with your matter at this time. You will be contacted shortly.

Kind regards

Robin A

HSBC Internet Banking Customer Support

Me being me, I couldn't resist a speedy retort:

Dear Robin,

 

Thank you for COMPLETELY ignoring my message of 20th April, and for replying with a standard deflection template response.

 

The content of my communication indicated that TWO deadlines I had set for the bank expired yesterday, and that I would be taking my intended actions today. I can confirm that both courses of action have now been set in motion, and that I have no further need to contact the bank regarding my original request.

 

However, the bank WILL be receiving a court summons in the next few days, as well as confirmation that I have lodged a complaint with The Information Commissioner regarding your non-compliance over my DPA request.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Mr Skull.

I know they clearly don't read the emails anymore, but I do get a great sense of satisfaction from all this...

[Spiceskull]

Another reply from Billy Bank the Wuncher - in response to me earlier message:

Dear Mr Skull

 

Thank you for your e-message dated 21 April 2006.

 

As previously advised, this matter is currently being looked into by the relevant department. I can assure you that you will be contacted once the matter has been resolved.

 

Yours sincerely

Mr M Bowden

Manager Customer Credit Services

[Guest Lueeze]

Aww at least they thought of you eh!

 

Lol

[Jezmond]

Go get em Skull - Ive been screwed over for the last 12 years by banks - espeacially HSBC:-x . Im about to embarke on retrieving all my money back. Ive just realised that i might never been in a financial mess (currently under a debt management plan, CCCS) if the banks would have charged me fairly!

[Spiceskull]

The claim was issued on 21st and will be served on 29th...as far as I am concerned this is now with the courts. I feel really chipper about that, and I am beaming all over...

[Spiceskull]

I'm posting this tomorrow - the last couple of paragraphs are a new angle, partly inspired by another users 'cheeky' demands to the bank:

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I find myself in the position that once again your actions require my intervention.

 

Further to my 'secure online' communication of 18th April, I received yesterday a statement from HSBC. This was stating their intent to unlawfully apply penalty charges to my account on 7th May to the sum of £50.

 

As you are aware, I have, in the past, asked you to demonstrate to me that these punitive charges are fair and just, that they are lawful, and that they are being lawfully applied. I have also asked you to demonstrate that they represent a true cost to the bank of the bank's actions, or that they represent a fair pre-estimate of cost for those actions. You have failed to demonstrate this to date, and therefore it is implied by your refusal or inability to supply such demonstration, that these penalties are, indeed, unlawful.

 

Therefore, I would draw your attention to the following point: you have stated that these charges will be applied on 7th May. If these charges ARE applied, then you will be required to explain why you have, in my view, committed a pre-meditated breach of the law, and I will be reporting such breach to all of the relevant authorities. However, as this has not yet happened, I require that you take action forthwith, and cancel this transaction prior to its execution. Furthermore, I require confirmation, in writing, that this transaction will, indeed, be cancelled.

 

I shall be checking my account on 7th May, and if I see that the penalty charges have been unlawfully applied to my account, I shall lodge a claim at the county court to recover these charges, plus my costs and interest calculated at 8% APR, without hesitation. Furthermore, I shall require that you confirm whether these unlawful charges have resulted in a default notice against my record with credit reference agencies, and if so, I will seek appropriate action to have this notice removed.

 

In view of my first paragraph, and as a gesture of goodwill, I wish to illustrate how the bank is able to avoid court action. Should the unlawful charges be applied to my account, the bank should immediately provide me with:

 

• A full and unconditional refund of these charges
  
• A full and unconditional admission of the bank's error
  
• An undertaking that this error will not be repeated in the future
  

 

By furnishing me with these requirements the bank will demonstrate that it is acting in good faith, and will have gone some way towards restoring my faith in them to act as my fiduciary. However, should this error be repeated in the future, I will consider that the bank is acting in a careless and irresponsible manner.

 

As such, and with due consideration to my time in rectifying the bank's errors, I shall be submitting an invoice for £75 along with another letter similar to this one. As long as the bank continues to repeat this error, and therefore wastes my time, I shall continue my relationship with the bank in this businesslike manner. Additionally, receipt of this letter indicates the banks acceptance of these terms, unless the bank notifies me to the contrary, in advance of any action being required by me in respect of the bank's error.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Mr Skull.

Feel free to copy and amend if you wish

[neilloffhagen]

I like it very much Be very interested to know how they reply. May you succeed and set a good precendent for others to follow.

[stevenazari]

how did court go how did court go??????

[Spiceskull]

The 'summons' was only deemed issued on Saturday - the bank have not had time to acknowledge it yet. I absolutely promise I will keep you posted...honest...

[ChelseaGirl]

Yeah is there any news on this??

[ChelseaGirl]

Sorry we must of posted those at the same time!!

[Spiceskull]

Couldn't resist sending them another email:

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Following my letter of 12th March, and my subsequent letters and emails, I would like to enquire as to the current progress of my Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

My initial request was for a complete list of of transactions and charges, as well as indication of wheteher or not manual intervention had taken place in my account.

 

The transaction history part of my request was fulfilled on the 40 day deadline, which expired a week ago, but I am still waiting on the information regarding manual intervention. As this has not been forthcoming, it is implied that there has not been any manual intervention, and therefore EVERY transaction within my account has been the result of automated processes.

 

With this in mind, I would suggest the bank consider the following two points:

 

• How will the bank explain to the Information Commissioner it's refusal to fully comply with a legal obligation; to wit, supplying me with the requested information
  
• In light of ALL transactions within my account being automated, how the bank can continue to justify the exorbitant penalty charges levied against my account. The very suggestion that the charges represent a true cost to the bank is highly insulting, and indicates that the bank is profiteering from applying unlawful charges to my account

I fully expect the bank to answer these questions, along with all of my other queries, when a date has been set by the courts for the bank to refund my charges to me.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Mr Skull.

[Spiceskull]

Reply to me EMessage of Wednesday, which I certainly would not consider was a complaint. I know why the banks treat us like **** - it's because they have cotton wool in their ears...

Dear Mr Skull

 

Complaint

 

Thank you for your e-message received 3 May 2006.

 

I apologise for the inconvenience caused.

 

However, I have forwarded your message to your account holding branch who will contact you direct.

 

Kind regards

Arnab Bose

HSBC Internet Banking Customer Support

[Sarrahk]

Go get em Skull - Ive been screwed over for the last 12 years by banks - espeacially HSBC:-x . Im about to embarke on retrieving all my money back. Ive just realised that i might never been in a financial mess (currently under a debt management plan, CCCS) if the banks would have charged me fairly!

 

hey i am with CCCS too.. they are fabulous! Completely turned things round for me after getting myself in financial hole with credit 2 years ago!

[Spiceskull]

Well, the gits have applied the charges to my account, even though I specifically told them not to do so. They have had their warning, they disobeyed ME, so it looks like a visit to moneyclaim is in order...

[paper_tiger3030]

Just purely a comment. You seem to like writing to bank staff! As soon as I had my LBA replied with an offer of "y" hundred pounds, I didn't bother writing any more to them at all or . I just issued my claim for "x" hundred through moneyclaimonline and bingo, one week later an offer of the whole amount plus court fees. Whole process done and dusted and I'm "x" hundred pounds better off after a month. Obviously I had no shenanigans with DPA requests, but I wouldn't want the judge (should it have got that far) to have seen me as vexatious or purely combative. As far as I can see the stages are:

 

1. (For some) DPA.

2. LBA

3. MCOL

4. Court

 

There's no need for 1 (a) email, (b) email, © letter, (d) letter, phonecall, 2 (e) more email. It provides more fodder for them to dick you around. I know my experience is limited, but cold, clinical and to the point did me well.

 

It's your call, but I really don't like talking to bank staff! . Anyway, good luck with the rest of it.

[paper_tiger3030]

By the way - next time they give me unlawful charges I shall start the same process all over again. I.e. they charge me £25. Then I shall: LBA, MCOL, Court EVERY MONTH I see unlawful bank charges.

[CheeseOnToast]

Just purely a comment. You seem to like writing to bank staff! As soon as I had my LBA replied with an offer of "y" hundred pounds, I didn't bother writing any more to them at all or . I just issued my claim for "x" hundred through moneyclaimonline and bingo, one week later an offer of the whole amount plus court fees. Whole process done and dusted and I'm "x" hundred pounds better off after a month. Obviously I had no shenanigans with DPA requests, but I wouldn't want the judge (should it have got that far) to have seen me as vexatious or purely combative. As far as I can see the stages are:

 

1. (For some) DPA.

2. LBA

3. MCOL

4. Court

 

There's no need for 1 (a) email, (b) email, © letter, (d) letter, phonecall, 2 (e) more email. It provides more fodder for them to dick you around. I know my experience is limited, but cold, clinical and to the point did me well.

 

It's your call, but I really don't like talking to bank staff! . Anyway, good luck with the rest of it.

 

You are wrong, you need to go through the motions incase the case does go to court. You need to be able to demonstrate that you have tried to communicate properly and given the bank a chance to correct their mistakes.

[paper_tiger3030]

You are wrong, you need to go through the motions incase the case does go to court. You need to be able to demonstrate that you have tried to communicate properly and given the bank a chance to correct their mistakes.

 

Letter Before Action fulfills that role ? Doesn't it?

[Spiceskull]

Hi Guys,

 

Funnily enough, whilst you take diametrically opposite positions, I find myself agreeing with both of you. For cheese it is so true, you have to demonstrate that you have made every effort to settle, and I think I have certainly done that.

 

For tiger, again, there is always the danger of saying too much and coming on too strong. However, whilst I would certainly agree that my letters are combative and goading, I don't think they could be interpreted as vexatious. I ask the bank a question (by one of many channels) - they don't answer it satisfactorily, I ask again etc etc.

 

To a point I do agree that I probably write more than I need, but the way I see it is that once I get my money back, I want the bank to be under no illusion that I will keep pressing for refunds as and when they are applied.

 

Keep the feedback coming, it gives me something to read whilst waiting, in vain, for something from the bank...

[Spiceskull]

Update:

 

Yesterday I received two letters - one from the courts acknowledging that service had be filed, and one from DG making me a (conditional) offer.

 

The court letter indicated that the bank intended to defend ALL of the claim (whatever that is meant to mean) - surely you either defend it or you don't...oh well, Whatever Trevor!

 

The letter from the solicitors gave all the usual guff about 'charges are reasonable' 'would be successful in court' 'management tme and irrecoverable costs' etc. There was also an offer, subject to confidentiality.

 

I won't discuss the content further, as I want to clarify with them the terms of settlement (if I accept), but it looks like I am on the last stretch...:lol:

[bram stoker]

About time - I've been waiting for my steak dinner out for months!!!

[monkey_uk]

Great news Spicey!

 

I'm gonna raise with Dave/BF et al, the issue of gagging clauses right now