Why let your bank keep your money? Calculating your charges claim

[car2403]

I think there's confusion over what Bankfodder is recommending, here. He is suggesting that reclaiming the overdraft interest applied as a result of charges - not contractural interest on the overdraft. In fact, let the man speak for himself;

 

The bottom line - is simply that if you have suffered unfair charges - then claim them back.

If you have also been charged interest on those charges - whether at the authorised rate or at the unauthorised rate - claim that backtoo.

 

There are very few caculations needed. the interest taken from you will be clearly identified on your statements - probably as overdraft interest.

 

If you have already claimed back charges but didn't claim back the interest on those charges then there is nothing to stop you going back, calcualting all of the interest which was levied on those charges and starting another claim.

If you had to take it to court, you would add 8% interest to that too.

 

Don't forget. this is interest which they have actually taken from you.

 

We are not talking about interest which you have decided to charge them for the use of your money. That would be something different and it is called "contractual interest".

 

I think that you may have misunderstood what is being said here.

 

If you have merely applied the interest rate to your charges, then this is contractual interest and I don't expect for a moment that you will be able to claim the figure you have mentioned.

 

HTH

[landy_alert]

I think there's confusion over what Bankfodder is recommending, here. He is suggesting that reclaiming the overdraft interest applied as a result of charges - not contractural interest on the overdraft. In fact, let the man speak for himself;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HTH

 

Thank you car2430,

 

That's what I thought!

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[ohoh4312]

hi I did ask this question so time ago but can't find the answer

 

I've claimed my bank charges and received the letter re 'got it but don't go to court as we'll immediately request a stay until ) response

 

Do I need to start the court action in order to rack up the 8% or will I get that as I've sent the formal claim to the Bank with all the supporting info?

 

many thanks in advance for your response

 

Hi Sunshine54

 

Yes, you need to start the Court action asap - the 8% is statutory interest which can ONLY be awarded by the Court.

 

If you need any help with the claim, please post on your thread, or post a link here and you will get plenty of advice and support.

 

HTH x

[Notty]

As suggested I am working out the interest on my overdraft. I was just at the stage of sending the N1 claim and had sent the bank the LBA about a month ago. Obviously my spreadsheet will reflect the added interest I am claiming. As stated earlier I have already claimed charges (no interest) for 2000-2006 and this claim will be for charges 2006-2009 plus interest for the 9 years. Should I send another LBA and wait for the 14 days before I send the N1 or will it be okay to send the N1 and an updated spreadsheet to the bank?

[car2403]

If you stated the interest amounts and the amount you are reclaiming has changed as a result of a change in how you've applied interest, you'll need a new LBA.

[Notty]

So in my new LBA do I put I am claiming back the charges plus the portion of interest on the overdraft that relate to the charges for 2000-2009? I know normally we do not add any interest until the N1 claim stage?

[2Grumpy]

As overdraft interest is on the daily balance then I don't see how you can use a simple proportion to calculate the amount of interest that was charged on cumulative unfair charges & interest thereon without putting all of your daily balances into a spreadsheet. Plus that is no good if there is a higher rate of interest on the unauthorised portion of the overdraft. In that case, the excess interest would need to be taken from the higher figure first, then the lower figure.

 

I do agree that it is much easier to calculate when accumulated charges plus excess interest is greater than the overdraft limit!

 

I was putting this off for my son's account even though there are only 18 months transactions involved. I was thinking that the bank would do it for me, but the bank has said that they don't refund interest ... apparently they don't care if it was charged on something that they later refund no matter what the circumstances.

 

His bank refunded some direct debits that shouldn't have been taken. One of these took him over his limit .. you can guess the rest. The bank won't refund the charges until the test case is over. I say that it's nothing to do with the test case but it's like talking to a brick wall. Meanwhile his account is closed, no warning, no termination notice, no default notice, just closed.

[Notty]

Hi 2Grumpy dont tell me that I am just sitting in the garden trying to work the thing out! I think Bankfodder said in an earlier thread to do it like that but best have a check. I think there is a spreadsheet but they are just as confusing!

[2Grumpy]

I looked at the spreadsheet but it's charging 8% statutory interest on all transactions.

 

It is probably a case of difficult to understand but when you do, it's relatively straightforward. I'm in the "do not understand" camp at the moment. I'm only interested at the interest proportion to reclaim when the total reclaimable charges is less than the overdraft limit at the moment - how to arrive at that.

[Notty]

Let me know when you do grumpy. I have nearly had a turn in the garden what with the heat and trying to work out interest my brain is ready to pop! I am only claiming interest as I have already claimed charges for 2000-2006 so it is making it even more complicate, well for me anyway.

[2Grumpy]

In any month where you are within the overdraft limit, where the cumulative charges & overcharged interest is greater than the overdraft balance, you should reclaim the whole of the interest charge that month.

 

I'm beginning to understand the spreadsheet.

 

You put the interest from the bank statement into column H & it calculates the amount to put into column B

 

I'm not sure why there is a "SUM" in the calculation though, and I still think that the calculation is too simplistic in terms of daily balances. I would have expected (SUM of daily cumulative charges) / (SUM of daily balances) through the charging period (not necessarily the month when the interest was applied to the account)

 

Having lit the blue touch paper I will be retiring the appropriate 20 yds (ok won't be around for a few days)

 

But I really do think that this calculation is flawed (although I hope I'm wrong, especially if people have started using it)

 

Presumably this is a modified charges reclaim spreadsheet

 

I really don't understand how you can apply the 8% interest to all transactions (unless you are only showing charges in there), that should only be applied to invalid charge transactions & be zero for the rest (have I lost the plot?)

[car2403]

So in my new LBA do I put I am claiming back the charges plus the portion of interest on the overdraft that relate to the charges for 2000-2009? I know normally we do not add any interest until the N1 claim stage?

 

It's probably sufficient to say how you intend to reclaim interest, should they not comply with the LBA and you have to issue a Court Claim, at this stage. Just include a schedule of charges, with an outline of how you will calculate interest based on those charges been applied, should that happen. IMHO.

 

I was putting this off for my son's account even though there are only 18 months transactions involved. I was thinking that the bank would do it for me, but the bank has said that they don't refund interest ... apparently they don't care if it was charged on something that they later refund no matter what the circumstances.

 

They'll have to care when you reclaim it - either that or they believe every word you say and simply pay you back what you've claimed, or offer an alternative amount (with interest included that you are happy with)

 

His bank refunded some direct debits that shouldn't have been taken. One of these took him over his limit .. you can guess the rest. The bank won't refund the charges until the test case is over. I say that it's nothing to do with the test case but it's like talking to a brick wall. Meanwhile his account is closed, no warning, no termination notice, no default notice, just closed.

 

Isn't he covered by the DD Guarantee, there? The Bank should be correcting this issue, now, as you're right, nothing to do with the TC. If they don't, they are in breach of the DD Guarantee, the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines, the CCA. In fact, there probably isn't anything that they haven't breached by behaving like that, IMHO.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens with this one, as unlawful Default/Termination on an overdraft would make the entire overdraft balance (including their bleeding incorrectly applied charges and interest on them!) unenforceable in Court, anyway! (Check out the link in my signature Overdrafts and the CCA)

 

This one sounds like a thread on it's own - happy to help out where I can.

[2Grumpy]

I'm also guessing that .022% per day is an accepted value for 8% p.a. simple interest rather than a more accurate figure of .021918

[car2403]

I'm also guessing that .022% per day is an accepted value for 8% p.a. simple interest rather than a more accurate figure of .021918

 

Yup.

 

Any more accurate than 0.22% and the Judge has to get his decimalised abacus out. Not a nice sight.

[ohoh4312]

Interested in your comments 2Grumpy, and I will try to explain.

 

I assume above when you talk about daily balances you mean the actual balance of the account at any given time? This is a sticking point because with microfiche data rather than actual statements, the account balance is not shown; it is simply a list of dated transctions.

 

Therefore we are working on limited data, and trying to make the best from what we have.

 

The 8% column is the statutory interest that you are legally allowed to claim through the Court process, on every amount that you have been charged. It is there to show how much your claim increases by once you submit the N1, and subsequently accumulates daily until judgement.

 

Obviously when you first approach the bank you cannot ask for this, so you can just hide those 2 columns when you print it off.

 

And yes, 0.22% is the accepted value for stat interest.

 

Hope that helps.

 

ohoh x

[car2403]

The 8% column is the statutory interest that you are legally allowed to claim through the Court process, on every amount that you have been charged. It is there to show how much your claim increases by once you submit the N1, and subsequently accumulates daily until judgement.

 

Can I just clarify this with you, ohoh? The 8% interest is recoverable from the date you were deprived of the money - not from the date the N1 is issued.

 

If that was the case, everyone who hasn't issued yet would be losing interest every day. As it stands, they are only losing interest on charges that are going over 6 years. (I know, unless s.32 Limitations Act comes in to play, blah, blah...)

 

Just wanted to point this out, as newbies may get a little confused on reading that post.

[ohoh4312]

Apologies - that is what I meant of course.

 

Case of fingers and brain not talking to each other.

 

Sorry x

[car2403]

Apologies - that is what I meant of course.

 

Case of fingers and brain not talking to each other.

 

Sorry x

 

Hey! It's Sunday.

 

I've washed my face with hair gel and put face wash in my hair before, so I can't talk...

[landy_alert]

Meanwhile his account is closed, no warning, no termination notice, no default notice, just closed.

 

Hi 2Grumpy:)

 

I can symapathise with you/your son there, as Lloyds have just closed our account too. We are in the process of reclaiming charges of about £9000 (more than double our o/d facility). They did send a letter warning that our account would be closed and moved to CDR, saying that this was their way of helping us during our financial difficulties, as there would be a freeze on interest and charges (whilst not agreeing to process our case under the FSA hardship waiver!), but we also have received no default notice or termination notice, just a couple of nasty letters from SCM, their in-house sols. Funny how they did this after we put in our request for refund of charges! We are in the process of reporting them now, although I'm sure it won't do any good - Lloyds are a law unto themselves in my opinion.

 

Hope you and your son have better luck than us!

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[car2403]

Hi 2Grumpy:)

 

I can symapathise with you/your son there, as Lloyds have just closed our account too. We are in the process of reclaiming charges of about £9000 (more than double our o/d facility). They did send a letter warning that our account would be closed and moved to CDR, saying that this was their way of helping us during our financial difficulties, as there would be a freeze on interest and charges (whilst not agreeing to process our case under the FSA hardship waiver!), but we also have received no default notice or termination notice, just a couple of nasty letters from SCM, their in-house sols. Funny how they did this after we put in our request for refund of charges! We are in the process of reporting them now, although I'm sure it won't do any good - Lloyds are a law unto themselves in my opinion.

 

Hope you and your son have better luck than us!

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

 

It's exactly the same, Landy - what they have done is wrong and potentially unlawful if they haven't sent you the relevant notices, etc.

 

Do you have a thread on this?

[landy_alert]

It's exactly the same, Landy - what they have done is wrong and potentially unlawful if they haven't sent you the relevant notices, etc.

 

Do you have a thread on this?

 

Hi Chris,

 

Yes I've a thread entitled 'Hardship and account closure' which has recently been moved into the new 'Hardship' forum - apologies I don't know how to do a link I'm afraid:eek:

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[Notty]

Do you think this sounds about right? I had charges of just over £1100 this was for the 2001-2004. I had an o/d on this account so I have just calculated, manually, that the interest plus charges comes to about £1178 so deducting what I have already claimed (£1100)it runs to around £70 in interest they owe me. I was hoping for double the amount I had already claimed but I must have read the calculations that someone else put on a thread with regard to the amount you can get back in interest they have charged you on your overdraft. Not sure if I have done it all correctly. Think I have but no where near what I thought it would be.

[wolek 1111]

Hi

My bank charge me over 600 pounds , and I would like to get them back. I ask my bank for statements and they send them for me for free. I am polish and my english is not really good so I don't know ,what to do now. They send me letter with some information but I don't understand them too much.

It is there any chance to get some help from The Consumer Action Group?

I will be pleased if I could get some.

[tifo]

can i claim interest even though i've agreed a settlement and received a payment for the charges only?

 

last year, a lot of banks i was complaining to stopped paying any interest on refunds done under a 'goodwill gesture'. In some cases, this was a significant amount of interest lost.

[2Grumpy]

Given a balance at some stage, you can work out the daily balance (backwards if necessary, then work forwards.

 

I can understand in that case that you would need to input all of your transactions. This makes it more important to download statements to spreadsheets whenever you can.

 

If you know the interest rate for charges, it must be possible to work out the interest on charges at any point - n days * daily rate * amount.

 

That might be better if there is a higher rate for unapproved overdrafts and in cases where the balance is unknown.

 

I'm still a bit unsure about the example claiming 8% interest on all transactions including those that aren't charges ...

 

Using proportions is OK where you know the balance and there is a single interest rate for approved & unapproved overdrafts.