@hsbc_uk_help HSBC Credit Card no agreement what next ?

[Hotdog77]

hi Jm,

 

received an update from FOS on friday stating the below:

The business has informed me that its' offer does not include any current account charges you may have incurred.

 

It has confirmed the offer is to refund the premiums, plus the annual rate of 21.7%, plus 8% simple interest per annum.

 

Please let me know if you now wish me to forward your settlement form to the business for it to arrange settlement direct with you.

can i go back and tell them NO, as the last statement i received from HSBC had apr of 23.9%.

 

im also a lil confused as im looking at the statement dated Jan 2010, and ive been charged interest on standard balance (cash) @ 2.073% per month

and interest on standard balance (purchases) 1.809% per month. why cash? ive not taken out any cash, and no psurchased since13th April 2009. the last payment i made to the fockers was may 2009, of which i was 72.43 over my limit, but since then theyve continued to add interest, ppi, late payment admin charge and over limit charge. this has spiraled into taking the account like £300 ove the limit

[Hotdog77]

??

[johnnymitch]

Hi Hotdog ,

 

i think you maybe need an explanation of the charges for cash ,if you didn't draw any , as that is always a higher rate of interest .....

 

As for the other offer, it depends on what the APR was at the time I think , not what it is now ........... but the decision whether to accept or dispute has to be yours .......

did you get any joy with your offer of £250 btw ... ?

[Hotdog77]

Hi Hotdog ,

 

i think you maybe need an explanation of the charges for cash ,if you didn't draw any , as that is always a higher rate of interest ..... ok will request that info

 

As for the other offer, it depends on what the APR was at the time I think , not what it is now it si now 23.9 and ive requested that they refund the ppi on that % to be fair........... but the decision whether to accept or dispute has to be yours .......

did you get any joy with your offer of £250 btw ... no ive not had time to send a letter, but ive worked out how much interest charges/late fee admin charges/ove lmit charges and ppi - and so for im at £1232 and not even finished yet, so this will be the way that i think i will go bouts it. wht wever the total charges add up to will be deducted ont he balance of £1800.00 and i will pay the balance if any as there is no biding contract between us. wht you think???:idea: ?

[johnnymitch]

Sounds fair enough to me hotdog ..... and you are demonstrating your willingness to come to terms which is always a plus when/ if comes to court action (either at your instigation or theirs )

[Hotdog77]

Hi Hotdog, Update for you...firstyle ive received a letter from hsbc regarding ppi charges, a good 6-7 weeks after they said to FSA they were going to write to me about the refund. and thier proposed offer.....drum rol.......=£450.29 of premiums paid, £107.92/8% interest £7.50/plus interest charged on the loan of any amount to pay the premiums. a little unclear to me, as i though they were going to refund also 23.9% or 21% plus 8% simple interest per annum.

 

Also the alleged balance on the account is £1838.34, of which £1842.32 is made up of unlawful penalty/admin charges & ppi dated from 2004 to present, without any further added interest that a court would grant, also £300.00 of it is where the bank continued to adf further interest and pp charges making my credit limit go over tis mark. Im not sure if i worked it out wrongly. where can i get a template to work out the premiun + 23%apr + 8%apr,

 

Furthermore, the account has now been passed to central dept recovery unit, going over that their client has established their practice and met all stat regulatory requirements, and the banks position remains that this is a valid and legally enforceable agreement, if there is any default or breach of terms the bank reserves the right to excercise rights available to it under the credit agreement.

if you are seeking to contest an agreement, you will be aware the burden lies with the borrower to demonstrate to the court that the bank has failed under its obligations. any proceedings against the bank will be defended vigorously.

please note that the bank ill not reimburse fees and or legal costs incurred by borowers in employing the service of a third party representetive to make a claim on thier behalf. any such costs will need to be met by the borrower. should proceedings be commenced, we will seek to recover from the borrower all consequental legal costs incurred in defending the claim......In the meantime, we have been instructed to relaim the outstanding balance under the above account of £1838.00.

You are required to let us have your proposal withing the next 14 days, after which time if you do not hear from you will be left with no alternative but to continue recovery action.

Heres the letter i sent to HSBC big boss solicitors and dg .

In February 2009 I requested HSBC supply me a copy of the credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78

 

Since then I have received your reply in which you confirm that you are unable to comply with my formal request pursuant to s.78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, as there is no said CCA.

 

While HSBC seem unable or unwilling to provide me with a copy of the original agreement, I have my copy which has been deemed not to have the correct terms and so is unenforceable. . I note that to date you have still not complied with my request for a copy of the credit agreement for this alleged debt which you are pursuing me for.

I will re-iterate that I have not received a true copy of the executed signed agreement between HSBC/Metropolitan/DG solicitors and myself.

 

 

I would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 "an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued".

 

I am sure you will be aware that as this account stands, it is rendered unenforceable. As a result I have been within my rights to cease payment; however as a gesture of good will I am prepared to make an offer on the following conditions.

 

The alleged balance on this account is £1838.34, of which £1842.32 is made up of unlawful penalty/admin charges & ppi dated from 2004 to present, without any further added interest that a court would grant. So therefore I willing to demonstrate my willingness to close this matter and am prepared to pay £150 to you on the provision that this clears the account in full and final.

 

I would like to point out that under S127 (3) of the consumer credit act 1974

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner). Therefore NO SIGNED AGREEMENT = NO PROSPECT OF ENFORCEMENT

 

As holders of a Consumer Credit Licence you are obliged to comply with the Office of Fair Trading Guidelines on debt collection. I would therefore be obliged if you would provide me with an explanation as to why you are attempting to collect on an alleged debt which was disputed with **BANK ** prior to your first contact with me, and has yet to be resolved.

As per OFT guidelines Section 2.8k "not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt

drawing their attention to s.78 of the CCA 1974 which states that whilst in default they cannot demand payment, and the OFT guidance on debt collection, which states that failing to suspend collection activity whilst a debt is in dispute is an Unfair practice. According to sections 221 and 222 of the Companies Act 1985, a public company is required to maintain records for a period of six years (section 222(5)(b)).

As a running credit agreement remains active until the agreement is terminated, I would suggest that all the payment records (and other documents making up the file - including the Agreement/application) would be "live" until the account is paid, or terminated. Thus, the full file should be retained for at least six years after that.

 

This interpretation fits in with Inland Revenue legislation that requires prime documents to be retained for a period of six years, after the end of the relevant accounting period. That would mean some files need to be retained for up to seven years. The relevant legislation is found in Schedule 18 of the Finance Act 1998 (paragraph 21) - of particular significance is sub-paragraph (6) which states:

 

“The duty to preserve records under this paragraph includes a duty to preserve all supporting documents relating to the items mentioned in sub-paragraph (5) (a) and (5) (b).

 

Finally, key documents/application forms etc must also be kept until 5 years after that business relationship has ended. This is a requirement of The Money Laundering Regulations 1993, 2003 and 2007.”

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from harassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit

 

 

I would expect you to confirm acceptance of this offer within 14 days. If I do not hear from you within this time frame I will consider that you have rejected this generous offer and it will be permanently withdrawn, and I will continue with my claim in the courts.

 

Further more, since I have never signed a credit agreement, nor have I ever been made aware of your data usage policy or consented to you sharing my data with third parties I am putting you on notice that any attempts to share my data with a Credit reference agency will result in a FURTHER complaint to the Information Commissioners Office and the possibility of litigation being brought against your company for breaching the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

I await your written confirmation that no further contact will be made concerning the above account and confirmation that this matter is now closed.

[Hotdog77]

...Help?

[Hotdog77]

[Hotdog77]

[Hotdog77]

any....help....pls

[Hotdog77]

Hiya,

 

well the debt has been passed on to CDRU, and to date even though the FOS have told hsbc to pay me the ppi, they sent me a feeble offer (without prejudice) but the offer was not in full. they agreed to pay the premiums paid, plus 8% simple interest, and contractual apr on top. i refused it as thier offer didnt include the contractual apr, asked them to revise the offer to include what they offered, sent 2 further letters, and all they have done is just blank me. can i now take this to the small claims court?

 

i also emailed back the adjudicator at FOS and hes not replying back to me emails.

 

i feel like im at a dead end.

 

help pls

[johnnymitch]

Hi hotdog

 

If you've got paperwork to back all this up, send them a Letter Before Action giving them ,say, 14 days to cough up or you will take them to court ..... quote things in the LBA that they have promised and what FOS ordered . ... all sent at least 'Recorded Delivery , of course ...

 

Because of the time of year you may have to wait a bit longer than 14 days .... but don't give 'em too long or they'll think you're bluffing .

 

As for CDRU , I believe they're just another pseudo DCA (like Metro |) ...if you truly owe the debt , (I can't remember , sorry ), then tell them that when HSBC comply with FOS and what they promised ..... they'll get theirs ..... if you don't owe it ... let them whistle .. tell them it's going to court if HSBC don't cough up .

 

Have a Good Christmas , ('cos they will ) - and leave them to stew till the New Year

[Hotdog77]

Hi Jm,

Happy New Year

Thanks so much for the reply.

Funny thing is that hsbc responded to me during the holidays to confirm that they can’t add interest onto the account, as they have to assume that the balance on the card will be cleared at end of 28 days. Im a little bit lost, as they agreed to pay me interest at the card rate.

Firstly I went back and requested that they refund the premiums at the card rate at the time which was 23.9%, and the letter recently received is at 21.9. nevertheless their offer to refund interest at the card rate, should this be applied to every payment until the date of finalisation? Or are they correct that they have to assume the card is cleared every 28 days? Surely this is rollux?

This is the 2nd letter they have sent with ‘Without prejudice’ this meaning I cannot use it in a court?

The words of the FOS adjudicator - What it has proposed is a refund of PPI premiums paid plus interest at the card rate, plus 8% simple per annum.

Up to this date hsbc have never supplied me with a signed cca, they have only sent me reconstitued copy, which i understand is not viable.

[Hotdog77]

just to requote in the words of hsbc from their letter dates 24/12 quoting both the letters i sent out "we have used the average interest rate of your credit card 21.70% to calculate the sum, the calculation assumes the card balance is cleared every 28 days. i trust i have been able to answer your quiery satisfactorily".

 

surely this is toilet paper?

 

please help.

[Hotdog77]

?? need help

[Hotdog77]

just an update - received a ltter from dcru saying that they will be reviewing my account for further action.. the letter was sent 20.1.11, and states at the botton that to prevent this i should call before 20.1.11....mmhhh...how is that possible??

 

Need some urgent help on what to do next

[Hotdog77]

im thinking of sending them the following

Dear Sirs,

Without prejudice I respectfully decline your offer of Full and Final settlement and request, and once again, that you return to me all ppi premiums imposed on this account, plus 8% simple interest, and contractual interest apr @ 23.7% on top as originally agreed between hsbc credit card services and the Financial ombudsman services.

 

I also reject the further conditions of acceptance that you had attached in a further letter, namely that you cannot refund me the additional sum of interest @ 23.7% Apr which you agreed with the FOS, as this is based on the assumption that the balance is cleared every 28 days, obviously if this were to happen in the real world then the bank would make no profit and there would be no need for you to add this premium to my account. Furthermore, this account has clearly not be used in this way, so to assume that it is cleared every 28 days stands no ground.

If there were underlying conditions when HSBC presented this offer to the FOS, it should have been made very clear at the time to the FOS adjudicator, of which it wasn’t, so I therefore am requesting that you stand by that offer made.

 

I am willing to give you till 21st February to refund the full offer made to the FOS for ppi premiums paid, plus 8% simple interest, and contractual interest apr @ 23.7% calculated date of the first premium. A copy of the email is enclosed for your ref.

 

I hereby wish for you to amend your current offer, and replace it with the once sent to the FOS on July 2010. I await your revised acceptance form and will sign and send it back once received in full.

[Hotdog77]

ok, so today is last day for the bank to respond and ive heard nothing. Can i get some help in putting a small claim through?

[johnnymitch]

Hi hotdog ,

 

If you're looking for a good watertight letter to put them on the spot concerning PPI , pop over to the PPI site and ask ... there are some knowledgeable guys (and gals ) on there who will keep you right .

 

Best of Luck , let's know how it goes ...

[Hotdog77]

the thing is JM i get air, anytime i post. so im not really encouraged to post on there if you catch my drift

[johnnymitch]

Ok hotdog , ... write to the bank ,, quote again FOS's instructions regarding this matter and give them 7 days to finalise it ...tell them that FOS will be notified if they fail to comply - send it recorded and send a copy to FOS with a covering letter saying the bank have not complied with their directions ...and make sure the bank knows you've sent a copy to FOS (by putting "Copy to: FOS" at the bottom of their letter )

 

Should rattle their cage I think ....

[Hotdog77]

Hi JM,

i did all of the above and hasnt got me anywhere

I got a letter back from HSBC just to really say they cannot issue me the refund with 23.9%apr, for the same reasons as previously stated, but as a good will gesture they will give me £50.00 extra. Now obviously they are playing games with me, can I redeem this through the small claims court? The fos are just useless at this point now,

[johnnymitch]

Hi hotdog ,

 

Haven't you got a contact at FOS that you can speak to by telephone ....usually you are assigned to an adjudicator who should see it through to a conclusion for you , especially if they've already made an order for the bank to cough up ... try contacting FOS ...

 

Of course if FOS have not ruled on the 23% that may be a different ball game .... and it be as well to accept what they've said .... but don't let it go with out checking with FOS would be my advice ...

 

Also , IMHO , if the bank have got nothing to hide I can't see why they're offering a "goodwill " payment ... that , in my experience means they're trying to divert your attention from something better .......

r

[Hotdog77]

Hi Jm,

Received a letter last week from CDRU to confirm that they will accept the £250, that I put forward as full and final settlement of the account. Is there a letter template I can use for this? Brilliant news ay!, however I still have not had payment from hsbc with regards to the ppi offer that they made through the fos. Due to the new rulings, shouldn’t I just take them to court? They said they would pay the premium plus 23% apr + 8%. I can’t let this go, especially when they came back to offer me £50.00 as a good will gesture. Why offer someone more money if you don’t owe it to them.

[johnnymitch]

Hotdog , I'm surprised that you haven't started small claims court proceedings before now ... you sent them a Letter Before Action ages ago ... and should have followed through if they didn't meet the deadline .... now , they probably think you're bluffing ...

if you want them to cough up , you have two options IMHO ...

 

1. Contact them and tell them that unless they settle within 14 days at the terms agreed with FOS , the next they hear will be from the court ...

or

2. Just start court proceedings .... they've already had their warning through the LBA ,... and are playing games ...