Carmel Butler / House of Commons

[supersleuth]

That's precisely the point...the judge's don't have a clue!...

 

so they had over people's homes on the back of the claimant's false testimony because the judges don't have a clue but what's worse the judges don't listen to litigants in person, don't enforce the law and don't educate themselves.

 

Hope you're still OK for the moment...post on your SPML thread if you need any help.

[Last of the Mohicans]

Supersleuth

 

Not to well tbh,judge didn't have a clue with re to carmel butler report or any of the securitisation

 

 

No chit... I doubt the beak ever had a mortgage, let alone a securitised one that had been sold on.

 

Chin up Dotty - this will take time and patience to get across the judges bows, but it has in the US, and the same will happen here, perhaps even more so.

 

Read this thread

[JonCris]

Supersleuth

 

Not to well tbh,judge didn't have a clue with re to carmel butler report or any of the securitisation

 

 

Can you tell us what happened?

[enoughisenough]

I Forgot to add that if you google 'aggressive repossessions' you get a very interesting return which corroborates Carmel's evidence on NR and Granite.

 

Littledotty our hearts go out. We can still help even if the worst outcome possible has already happened.How to Appeal Remember yours is a civil case so you don't need the Judge's permission you just follow the link and get on with it. Help can be found here once you've taken the initial step. It is vital however that you get a crack on. It'll keep you going and as long as you want to fight, and I say this for all caggers, we'll be right here to help you fight. God speed!

[littledotty27]

Thanks for that,we have another hearing date next month,we told there reps we will pay extra on top of our installments as long as they refund the charges and freeze them so we can get the arrears down.

 

We also argued that they would not give us a direct debit,the judge stated that it is the customers discretion to change payment dates and that if we wanted to pay at the end of the month then we have every right to do so.

When the judge looked at our LR details,he stated that something wasn't quite right with it.

We really don't know where to go from here as to what else we can do!!

How the hell can we fight the securitisation case if not one judge understands it?

We are still waiting for the FOS to start dealing with the case.

[supersleuth]

Hi Littledotty,

 

I think you may be in relatively safe hands with your judge - have read back over your SPML thread, and this judge (assuming its the same one) seems to actually take notice of you.

 

Two things you mention in your post gives some hope - first, you said he told the rep that you have the right to change your payment date - that is law - and he has supported your point and applied the law. Hoorray.

 

Second, he has actually LOOKED at the Land Registry and said that he's not completely content with it (albeit that he didn't say why). No matter, he is taking some point at issue with the register. He maybe just needs some time to work out the legal reasoning before he articulates the issue with the register...and just maybe he needs to (and maybe will) clue himself up on the securitisation and maybe he will study the HoC evidence before the next hearing.

 

Note all this is speculation from the comments that you made above - and I may be wrong - but he didn't give them possession and he is bringing you back again next month....you may be pulling through...slowly...but you may just be getting there. So keep pluggin away.

 

Did he say why he wanted you back next month?

 

Supersleuth

[littledotty27]

We didn't have the same judge this time,but as the lenders refused our payment for jan & feb,his order was to make both payments before end of march.

Im not to sure as to why he wants us back,as everything was a bit of a blur tbh.

Is there anything else we can dig up to support our case?

[JonCris]

I agree with SS I suspect the Judge was hinting that he did understand securitisation otherwise why mention the LR but as he's unable to give you legal advice he may have been being circumspect

[brassed-off-2]

Hi Little Dotty,

 

I agree with SS and JC.

 

Have you had anyone qualified to check your LR docs at all ?

 

Is there anyway you could post them up on photobucket, personal stuff blocked, someone may be able to spot something the Judge may have spotted and see where s/he may be coming from ?? Just a thought, if it may help??

Good luck, like EiE said we are all here to help you the best we can..

take care for now.

B-O-2

[enoughisenough]

Keep going little dotty. We're all behind you. There's an opening here. A small one but not necessarily an unimportant one for being small. The argument is surely beginning to filter through. It has legal merit for sure, but contract law is about as complicated as the law gets, largely because the terms of contracts are written that way, to favour guess who? I think you should be more up than down. You've definitely contributed to the light being shone a little brighter on the right part of the room. (if that makes sense)

[Smarterchick]

I am struggling to find out the tranche of mortgages lists in the securitisation of my loan can anyone point me to another source to find out? I have found secinfo .com which tells me who securitsed the mortgages and loans, but how do we go from there to find the exact tranche? I have 'searched' my land registry number - nothing, I have tried to find amongst all the links the tranche info-nothing....where do these tranches get listed, is it public information or what? Any guidance here will be helpful..I've tried all the numbers I have references etc, still nothing..I have all the info on t & c's they post up, annual reports and accounts, but not the sales info...where to now peops?, where to now I just need nudging?

[littledotty27]

B-O-2

 

I put details of LR on my Spml thread,if you want to take a look,not sure which page it is on though.

The LR wasn't interested,they said as long as there is a charge on the register they are happy,but they did say the only way that it can be ammended was either a judge or solicitor ordering them to change it.

[Smarterchick]

B-O-2

 

I put details of LR on my Spml thread,if you want to take a look,not sure which page it is on though.

The LR wasn't interested,they said as long as there is a charge on the register they are happy,but they did say the only way that it can be ammended was either a judge or solicitor ordering them to change it.

 

 

Thanks for that LittleDotty, I'm trying to read as much as I can on all this, your thread has been great..well done for starting it.. I don't expect LR to do anything, they are like the Credit Reference Agencies - do nothing unless the client says so. It's the linking of the company (Lender to the actual tranche purchased by the SPV) - the block of properties that I need to find and finding a bit difficult. It's like looking for a sales invoice in a ledger kept inside a company, the outside world can't see it. I know they are there, it's just where to find them..once I'm in it'll be plain sailing. I've found the SPV now I need the block ..

[enoughisenough]

Hi smarterchick

 

The answer lies in the pm posts we had. I can't now make it coz I can't get anymore time off work. Head to U know where and asap let me know how you got on. PM only obviously!

 

Cheers EIE

[Bookworm]

For those who want the complete thing:

 

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/BankingCrisisMemos140109.pdf

 

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/BankingCrisisMemos150109rr.pdf

 

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/BankingCrisisMemos170309.pdf

 

And if you want to really go deep:

 

UK Parliament - Bankingcrisis

[Smarterchick]

For those who want the complete thing:

 

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/BankingCrisisMemos140109.pdf

 

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/BankingCrisisMemos150109rr.pdf

 

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/BankingCrisisMemos170309.pdf

 

And if you want to really go deep:

 

UK Parliament - Bankingcrisis

 

 

Thanks Bookie.. (ps, if you only operate PM's with Skype, how else do we PM you if we are not on skype ourselves? or don't you want us contacting you? )

[Bookworm]

Thanks Bookie.. (ps, if you only operate PM's with Skype, how else do we PM you if we are not on skype ourselves? or don't you want us contacting you? )

My PMs are switched off (throwback to when I was a mod, which people thought meant they could all PM to ask me things like: "where's the FAQs?" "How do I sue my bank?" or even "could you write the letters for me?", and I would log in every morning to about 150 PMs...), I have been thinking of putting my PMs back on, actually, but I have really bad memories of the early days when I ended up feeling completely overwhelmed with the sheer neediness. Oh, and I don't know why the Skype thing shows, because I only log on Skype when I need to phone abroad, lol)

 

And yes, everybody can contact me. A post in the Bear Garden saying: "Bookie, look at this!" with a link will usually do the trick. ;-) I'll either reply on the thread or if it is something private, I'll add the person to my list of contacts so they can PM me. It's a bit convoluted, but it keeps me sane (ish, we can't expect miracles ).

 

Sorry to OP for hijack.

[midge61]

Hi

 

Littledotty this is the what you posted about your LR file

 

Been on land registry SPML put a charge on land on 30th Jan 2006,but only put details as Proprieter on 20th June 06.

This is what is on the land register deeds

 

(30.01.2006) RESTRICTION: No disposition of the registered estate

by the proprietor of the registered estate is to be registered

without a written consent signed by the proprietor for the time

being of the Charge dated 11 January 2006 in favour of Southern

Pacific Mortgage Limited referred to in the Charges Register.

 

NOTE: Original filed.

3 (30.01.2006) REGISTERED CHARGE dated 11 January 2006.

4 (20.06.2006) Proprietor: SOUTHERN PACIFIC MORTGAGE LIMITED (Co.

Regn. No. 3266119) of Deeds Admin Team, St. Johns Place, Easton

Street, High Wycombe, Bucks HP11 1NL and of

{DeedsAdmin@capstonemortg ageservices.co.uk{.

 

 

Now are mortgage we took out was for £96k,but on the register it states £50,846 as shown below

 

REGISTER EXTRACT

Title Number :

Address of Property :

Price Stated : £50,846

Registered Owner(s) : Lender(s) : Southern Pacific Mortgage Limited

 

It may be that the origional charge does not have a company name attached to it but SPML was not noted until June 06 but under the restrictions it says they are claiming the charge as of Jan 06 in their names.

 

See what others have to say but I think that is clearly what is wrong.

[littledotty27]

This is our argument Midge, they have admitted that they took over in may 2006,so how can they put a charge on 4 months before they took over?

[midge61]

Can the LR not tell you who the original charge favoured? or was it Matlock Bank?

 

You need someone clued up on LR to look at this for you.

[littledotty27]

Ive got a copy of the original that states matlock bank,which i showed LR,but like I said in my previous posts...there not interested as long there is a charge.

[supersleuth]

Littledotty,

 

Seems like SPML may have mixed up your mortgage deed with another borrower's mortgage deed. i.e. they've erroneously registered the deed of a borrower of £50K date Jan 06 against your property.

 

It is similar to the issues in the USA - it is possible that SPML do not HAVE your mortgage deed (notwithstanding that SPML do not own your mortgage in any event!). You can write to SPML and tell them that you want to INSPECT the ORIGINAL mortgage deed which they hold and tell them that you want them to produce the ORIGINAL mortgage deed at the next hearing.

 

If the deed turns out to be dated Jan 06 and that is NOT your mortgage deed, then they can take a hike - can't sue you on the back of another persons deed! or if they do produce your deed, then the LR needs to be corrected - in which case the the LR can fully correct the LR and update with the real legal owner too i.e. EUROSAIL, in which case SPML can take a hike again!

 

Main point is: If they CANNOT PRODUCE the ORIGINAL deed, then they can't sue you on the mortgage deed. It is the same common law as has been used in the USA. So demand inspection and disclosure of the (1) mortgage deeds and (2) the title deeds to your property

 

See e.g. this link of how borrowers in the US are prevailing in their cases.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgages-secured-loans/189390-us-interesting-reading.html

 

BTW: when reading the link, the words THE NOTE in the USA is roughly equivalent to the MORTGAGE DEED in the UK. i.e. it is the document that acts as the promise to pay the lender.

Edited March 19, 2009 by supersleuth

[littledotty27]

Thanks for that Supersleuth,

I am also going to obtain the TR4 from LR,which will also prove when the assignment between matlock and spml took place.

[supersleuth]

Hi Littledotty,

 

When considering your mortgage deed, note that you gave the deed to Matlock (or was it LMC) - but that it is SPML who are asserting the deed against you. Therefore, SPML must first prove that they own your deed and thereby have the legal right to sue you - and in any event, you can show from the prospectus that SPML do not own your mortgage because SPML have since sold it to Eurosail. So Eurosail are the only entity in privity of contract with you and only Eurosail have the right to sue you.

[brassed-off-2]

http://www1.landregistry.gov.uk/assets/library/documents/lrpg029.pdf

 

Hi Guys,

 

Just bobbed back over to this thread,as i have been a little busy lately fighting my 2nd mortgage ..yes another well loved sub prime lender on this site...wont mention the name, They are like cows ready for the slaughter..any how it will be resulting in a visit to the boys in blue within the next few days!!! (The 'F' word)

Dont know if any relevant info in the above link, that may be of use to Little Dotty ..but worth a read.

 

Just another info snippett.., on my original repo (lost count) court bundle, there is a photocopy of the mortgage deed, and there near the bottom in the tiniest of writing, it says " form of mortgage deed filed at hm land registry under ref (e.g) md000x. This ref number, are they unique to each individual mortgage? does anyone know ?, or is a whole load of mortgages listed on the same document...could be useful or not ?

 

keep up the fighting spirit everyone

b-o-2