Vertex Data Science Ltd - Statutory Demand - ***WON + COSTS***

[chrismc]

Vertex may have assigned their own references to the letter/files, but why would they write back to me to say this is a UU account reference and they have NOT acted on any files on their behalf in my name. UU say the file ref is not theirs either.

 

In my view, they shot themselves firmly in the foot with this letter they sent me (posted upthread) because they relied on those account numbers on their Stat Demand and then tell me they are UU account numbers and they have not acted on them on behalf of UU? sounds like they have no idea what they are doing to me.

 

Looks to me like Vertex have just made up some file reference numbers to add to the SD.

Edited May 10, 2009 by chrismc

[chrismc]

No time limit of the hearing on the paperwork. Copies of what documents do you mean Martin.

 

I have copies of all paperwork I will be taking to court in triplicate, I have examples of case law and what Judges said, but not actual transcripts of those cases.

Edited May 10, 2009 by chrismc

[MARTIN3030]

I am sure that before you go into the Courtroom that the other side will ask what you will be producing-you can let them have their copies then.

The Judge will ask you if you have got a copy of all the stuff he will be looking at-and he will ask them the same.

If you have done trip then thats no problem.

transcripts from the references that you are submitting are ok-as long as there is reference to the case-I would use the first page with the seal etc.

Looks as though you have everything covered and that they have no cause of action-its actually vexatious I guess their brief will not take long to work that one out once he sees your stuff.

They might be using a local solicitor-who always seem to try to wriggle out of an ear bashing from the Judge by saying " Oh...my clients do not appear to have briefed me fully on that matter Sir ".............

[chrismc]

transcripts from the references that you are submitting are ok-as long as there is reference to the case-I would use the first page with the seal etc

 

Where would I get these from Martin? with the seals?

[42man]

Chris, I really think you'll be fine, please also ask the judge to order the other side an order to remove any adverse data that has been placed on your credit files.....I tell you know with the information you have got/haven't got, and the fact that you have made more than a reasonable effort to get more information on this, the judge will NOT be happy.....!! I don't think you'll be in court more than 5 minutes.....and with the result you will get your costs !!

[chrismc]

Thanks 42, I have all that info already, 9 pages of facts for the court and 30 pages of letters and so forth. Even in my own niaive little way I just cannot see how the judge can come to any other decision than to grant my set aside request. But we all know, judges are a law to themselves

 

Yes asking to remove any adverse data is already in my requests to the judge.

[r&b]

chris just a thought from my own experience, have u got a system to find any paperwork u need quickly. if not, with that amt of paper its a gd idea to have an index or smth to hand so u can find wot ur looking for quickly. i didnt n had several 'elma fudd' moments in front of the DJ. fortunately it mattered not on the day but it wasnt very impressive for sure. gd luck anyway.

[chrismc]

Thanks R&B yes a good idea, I have them post noted/indexed etc already

[MARTIN3030]

Seems its all covered then.

I guess the costs will come in handy for your trip to Kiev

[chrismc]

Seems its all covered then.

I guess the costs will come in handy for your trip to Kiev

Yes I hope so Martin

[MARTIN3030]

Mines only 2 weeks away too.....none of my 4 existing claims look being sorted any time soon.....so dont look like any of them will be making a contribution to the Ukraine economy this side of 2009:lol:

[chrismc]

Never mind, it will come in handy when you get back then

[chrismc]

I lodged all my documents and costs aplicatiion with the court this morning, just under 50 pages of documents.

[chrismc]

I return home and a letter is in my post box from Scott Rees & Co Solicitors.

 

Please find enclosed Witness statement from our client for the hearing 14th May etc etc

 

Our client is not in possession of the default notice, this document is in possession of HSBC, this document is not in our control and never has been we are not obliged to disclose this documentation.

 

The deed of assigment is a commercially sensitive document we do not feel it is appropriate to the case for it to be disclosed.

 

Please find notice of assignment enclosed as requested. (It is on a piece of plain A4 copy paper, no letterhead etc)

 

They enclose a witness statement from a lady who is a Team Manager with Vertex, with the usual stuff, and then says:

 

This Debt was bought from HSBC by Vertex etc and was assigned to them on 17th July 2007 and was sent to the defendent on 25th July 2007. A copy of the notice of assignment sent to the debtor is before me, and a true copy is annexed hereto and marked xxx

 

The last payment received was on 23rd October 2005 of £XX.00 therefore the debt is not statute barred.

 

signed..........

So Vertex issue a SD on me, then when I send in a SAR they tell me they have not acted on any accouts in my name, and give me some fictitious reference numbers and tell me they are for United Utilities accounts, when I send a SAR to UU they tell me they are not their reference numbers but won't comply with my SAR unless I complete a questionaire.

 

Vertex DO NOT comply with my SAR and also NOT with my CCA requests, but now two days before the SD set aside hearing they tell me the debt was bought from HSBC, although they will not give me copies of any credit agreements and also tell me the deed of assigment is a commercially sensitive document and it is not proportionate for the case for it to be disclosed.

 

Pretty pathetic in my view, I hope a judge just sees through this for what it is, a spurious attempt to extract money from me.

 

 

In my documents lodged with the court are many references to Case Law and also the Consumer Credit Act, including:-

 

 

SECTION 78 (1) CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

 

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

 

(a) the state of the account, and

 

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and..

 

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

 

The Consumer Credit Act in section 78(6) States that

 

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

---------------

 

·As the creditor has not provided the credit agreement Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2003] UKHL 40 states that:‘….the effect of the failure to comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 was that the entire agreement ………….. was unenforceable. The statutory bar on its enforcement extended to First County Trusts's right to recover the total sum payable on redemption, which included the principal as well as interest.’

 

THE WILSON CASE MADE IT CLEAR THAT IN THE EVENT OF NO ACCEPTABLE CONSUMER CREDIT AGREEMENT THEN THE CREDITOR COULD NOT RECOVER MONIES OWED UNDER ORDINARY CONTRACT LAW REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY COULD PROVE THE DEBT EXISTED OR NOT – THIS WAS THE DECISION OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS AND SHOULD THEREFORE BE BINDING IN THIS COURT

 

---------------

 

Plus so much more that I have included.

 

 

.

Edited May 12, 2009 by chrismc

[42man]

Amazing....it is just a comedy of errors...the backside doesn't know what the elbow is doing !!! various non compliances etc etc....it's a joke Chris...stick to your guns....if they said they had 'served' a default notice then I would also want proof of service, as well as a copy of it too to make sure it is in the prescribed form...!!

[chrismc]

Thanks

 

As you say, a comedy of errors. No default notices or assigment letters have been received to my knowledge.

 

Why they think they can ignore my SAR and just send a witness statement that says very little 2 days before the hearing I do not know, they obviously have no idea what they are doing and what Acts and Laws they should be complying with.

[42man]

Don't forget to include your costs Chris, which have to be in the court 24 hours before the hearing....

[chrismc]

Yes thanks, they went in this morning with the other stuff.

[MARTIN3030]

You also need to serve the costs on the other side too Chris -you do know this ?

[MARTIN3030]

"The deed of assigment is a commercially sensitive document we do not feel it is appropriate to the case for it to be disclosed."

 

 

Its irrelevant whether its commercially sensitive or not,if it is a document that needs to be relied on in evidence then it should be made available for all parties to see.

 

A copy of the deed of assignment should show the seal and be signed and dated by both the seller and the buyer.

You should have received a notice of assignment in any event-this is a legal requirement under the ICO technical guidance on defaults and credit reporting version 3 dated 2007.

If they allege that the OC is HSBC then HSBC would have issued the first default-on assignment there would have been a requirement for the default to be re-registered in the assignees name.

Its a shame that you dont have your credit files-if theres anything showing there-you could reconcile the dates of defaults with those that appear on the deed of assignment (when you get sight of it)....this is often the best way to catch them good style......and quite often why they are not too hasty to want to provide a DOA.

[chrismc]

You also need to serve the costs on the other side too Chris -you do know this ?

Wasn't aware of that Martin, I have copies I was going to take them to the hearing, is that OK, or do they need them in the post?

[chrismc]

Amazing....it is just a comedy of errors...the backside doesn't know what the elbow is doing !!! various non compliances etc etc....it's a joke Chris...stick to your guns....if they said they had 'served' a default notice then I would also want proof of service, as well as a copy of it too to make sure it is in the prescribed form...!!

 

"The deed of assigment is a commercially sensitive document we do not feel it is appropriate to the case for it to be disclosed."

 

 

Its irrelevant whether its commercially sensitive or not,if it is a document that needs to be relied on in evidence then it should be made available for all parties to see.

I know it is, they have no idea or are just chancing their arm

 

A copy of the deed of assignment should show the seal and be signed and dated by both the seller and the buyer.

Nothing at all, it is just on plain paper, no letterhead, no signature, no stamp it could have been done by anyone.

 

You should have received a notice of assignment in any event-this is a legal requirement under the ICO technical guidance on defaults and credit reporting version 3 dated 2007.

Never received anything.

 

If they allege that the OC is HSBC then HSBC would have issued the first default-on assignment there would have been a requirement for the default to be re-registered in the assignees name.

 

Its a shame that you dont have your credit files-if theres anything showing there-you could reconcile the dates of defaults with those that appear on the deed of assignment (when you get sight of it)....this is often the best way to catch them good style......and quite often why they are not too hasty to want to provide a DOA.

 

Yes its a shame I don't have them, but in any event there are so many holes in their argument and so many non compliance issues, I hope I will not need to rely on that bit.

 

.

[MARTIN3030]

Wasn't aware of that Martin, I have copies I was going to take them to the hearing, is that OK, or do they need them in the post?

 

Yes Chris I think you may find one in the post from them to you tomorrow.

I have been caught out twice with this thats how I know-the defence always time it this way -in most cases they will send it by special delivery-I have even had them timed for before 9am when the hearing has been listed for the same day !!

[chrismc]

Thanks Martin, I will send one by SD then today.

[MARTIN3030]

Yep ....you will cover yourself.

Before 1 will be adequate.....and 9 times out of 10 the before 1 service arrives early morning anyway-and SD always gives proof of delivery online by 1.00

As a further measure I would also take the PO receipt for it to Court with you.

There no end to the tricks and stunts these people will pull.

I guess I dont need to remind you.