Vertex Data Science Ltd - Statutory Demand - ***WON + COSTS***

[chrismc]

Vertex Data Science Ltd are a BPO company and they have a subsidiary company called First Revenue Assurance (UK) Ltd whom in essence are the debt collecting arm of Vertex! So Vertex is the parent company of First Revenue Assurance (UK) Ltd and they in turn have a contract with Scott Rees solicitors to collect debts on their behalf. Hope that this helps? However, I can say that on occasion with this company they do not know who is actually doing what!

They sure don't they don't seem to have a clue what is what, thankgoodness

[chrismc]

If you recall, upthread I quoted a letter I received 12th March from Vertex, which stated:-

 

Thank-you for your letter dated 1st March 2009 in relation the above requests (CCA and SAR)

 

We have checked the reference numbers you supplied and it apears that this matter relates to your account with United Utilities (UU). We (ie Vertex) do provide some services for UU but we have in fact undertaken no work on your account.

 

In any event we merely process data on behalf of UU and your requests therefore need to be addressed to them as data controller and principal in the arrangements.

 

I have contacted UU and am informed by them that the address you should write to is: Data Protection Team, United Utilities, Windermere House, Lingley Mere Business Park, Lingley Green Avenue, Warrington WA5 3LP.

 

They tell me that your postal orders should be made out to "United Utilities" and marked on the back with your UU customer number and data protection.

 

I accordingly return your original letters (of which we have not retained a copy) and postal orders.

 

Your sincerely,

 

etc etc

Vertex Data Science Ltd

So I sent off a SAR to United Utilities, they ran out of the 40 day time period but I received a letter today from them (after I sent in a Letter Before Action) which states among other things:-

 

The account numbers you provided were an incorrect format for a customer account number and were 6 numbers, all our account numbers are 10 digits. As such we were unable to locate the requested data.

What this means is that the account numbers Vertex stated on the Statutory Demand were ficticious. They told me in the above letter:-

 

We have checked the reference numbers you supplied and it apears that this matter relates to your account with United Utilities (UU). We (ie Vertex) do provide some services for UU but we have in fact undertaken no work on your account.

So in affect, they have issued a SD with ficticious account numbers that they confirmed in writing were United Utilities account numbers and now I find out that they are not in fact UU account numbers at all. They could have just puled these account numbers out of the phone book for all I know.

 

This Vertex lot are just a bunch of chancers, sending out SD's willy nilly in the hope someone is scared enough to pay them something, no doubt somethiing they never owed in the first place. I will be making the judge aware of all this when I meet him in May.

 

Its a disgrace and total abuse of court time and procedures.

 

Anything you guys want to add here please do so because I will be taking this further.

[42man]

I tell you what this is just terrible, If it was me in your shoes I would take (UU) to court for non compliance of the subject access request....show the judge all the paperwork, i've never heard such a total farce.....

[42man]

How can they possibly issue a stat demand when you have no account ? What did it say on the stat demand again ?

[42man]

Just checked....by 'assignment', they have provided no assignement whatsoever...actually i'd take Vertex to court.....or both...

[42man]

Chris....i'd really go to town on this one, get the set aside, claim damages and costs, make sure no default information....then take them to court for non compliance of the SAR...

[chrismc]

How can they possibly issue a stat demand when you have no account ? What did it say on the stat demand again ?

 

 

I have no idea, but they did just that? and the Judge will be made fully aware of this too.

[chrismc]

I feel like suing the whole damn lot of them, but it all takes up so much time, something I have little of at the moment. I am waiting for my day in court then will make a decision I think on what I do next.

[chrismc]

Chris....i'd really go to town on this one, get the set aside, claim damages and costs, make sure no default information....then take them to court for non compliance of the SAR...

 

I agree 42man, even in the letter I received yesterday from UU they are still saying I should have completed their nice little questionairre and sent it back, when we both know it is only a valid signature I need to provide, which they had.

 

How do I actually go about claiming damages?

[42man]

I'd await the set aside hearing first.....request the judge make an indemnity award in light of the obvious upset this has caused you and your family....don't forget costs need to go in 24 hours before the hearing....and ask the judge to order them to remove any adverse data they have put on your credit files. Can I ask one favour Chris, that you inform the OFT of this too...

[chrismc]

Yes I will do that and I will also inform the OFT, no problems at all, I am waiting now for the set aside hearing then will move forward on other matters.

 

Thanks again for all your help with this.

[itsamomentintime]

I'd await the set aside hearing first.....request the judge make an indemnity award in light of the obvious upset this has caused you and your family....don't forget costs need to go in 24 hours before the hearing....and ask the judge to order them to remove any adverse data they have put on your credit files. Can I ask one favour Chris, that you inform the OFT of this too...

 

 

 

42man, can you explain an indemnity order please?

[42man]

Have a read here IAMINT - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/156970-omg-connaught-first-credit-6.html#post1702284

[chrismc]

Take all your paperwork.....and some 'other' references to High Court Law with regard to Consumer Credit Agreements (let me know if you need to know which)

 

Just get the costs sheet in 24 hours before the hearing....multiple copies of ALL your paperwork too...(letters)...

 

42man, can you please link me to some High Court Law references on Consumer Credit Agreements, I will be starting to get all my paperwork together etc over the weekend/early next week.

 

Thanks

Chris

[42man]

Chris can you send me a PM....i'll have to do it on Monday if that is ok....but there are some references in here in the meantime - DCA Legal Successes - The Consumer Forums

[chrismc]

Thanks

 

I have sent you a PM

[MARTIN3030]

Just caught up with this lot Chris....Seems they have not done any homework.

UU should have provided you with your request based on what they hold on you by name and address-an incorrect account number is irrelevant-this is a matter for the ICO.

Insofar as damages go,theres a couple of ways to do this,but probably the best way is to seek damages at the Courts discretion-since its not damages for injury,then the pre action protocols as in that instance would not apply.

I see 42Man has been giving you lots of info-so you are in good hands.

You got my yahoo email-and Just John has got my number if you need to call.

Will be watching.

Is this BP Court that the hearing is listed in ?

[MARTIN3030]

Just another thought-Have you checked your credit files to see if anything is showing on there ?

 

Assignment could only have been legally done properly if they had the documentation that goes with the account when it was assigned.-there should be no need therefore for them to be saying that applications have to be made to the OC.

 

There is specific ICO guidance on this.

Edited May 10, 2009 by MARTIN3030

[MARTIN3030]

Technical guidance notes - Information Commissioner's Office (ICO)

 

Is 6th.Link down.

[MARTIN3030]

5.1 Informing or influencing decisions

 

There are many other examples of data which 'relate to' a particular individual because it is linked to that individual and informs or influences actions or decisions which affect an individual.

Example: Data about an individual's phone or electricity account clearly determines what the individual will be charged.

Context is important here. Information about a house is often linked to an owner or resident and consequently the data about the house will be personal data about that individual. However, data about a house will not, by itself, be personal data.

Example: Information about the market value of a particular house may be used for statistical purposes to identify trends in the house values in a geographical area. The house is not selected because the data collector wishes to know anything about the occupants, but because it is a four bedroom detached house in a medium-sized town. As soon as data about a house is either:

 

- linked to a particular individual, for example, to provide particular information about that individual (for example, his address) (see 4 above); or

 

- used in deliberations and decisions concerning an individual (even without a link to the individual's name, for example, the amount of electricity used at the house is used to determine the bill the individual householder is required to pay);

 

then that data will be personal data.

In both these examples the data about the house relates to the individual because the purpose of processing that data is to learn something about the individual (his address) or to determine something about him (the extent of his liability).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re your earlier questions-There is no prescribed definitions of proof of identity-ie that you have to supply a passport etc.

The only requirement is that you can show some proof that you are the subject making the request.

 

 

A data controller can refuse a request if they are not satisfied that the subject has proved who they are.

 

 

(Section 7 3 1 and section 7 3 a)

 

 

There is NO requirements under the Data Protection Act that require you to submit your signature either !!!!

[chrismc]

Just caught up with this lot Chris....Seems they have not done any homework.

UU should have provided you with your request based on what they hold on you by name and address-an incorrect account number is irrelevant-this is a matter for the ICO.

Insofar as damages go,theres a couple of ways to do this,but probably the best way is to seek damages at the Courts discretion-since its not damages for injury,then the pre action protocols as in that instance would not apply.

I see 42Man has been giving you lots of info-so you are in good hands.

You got my yahoo email-and Just John has got my number if you need to call.

Will be watching.

Is this BP Court that the hearing is listed in ?

 

Thanks Martin, Yes I think I have most things covered now, I have a 9 page report on events for the court including references to Case Law and about 30+ pages of documents I have sent out or received in from various parties.

 

I am using the case of Hammonds (a firm) v Pro-Fit USA Ltd [2007] EWHC 1998 (Ch) to help with my indeminity claim, and also Judge Boggis QC - RE AWAN - [2000] BPIR 241

to help make my point to the judge that this has been an abuse of Insolvency process, and a number of other Case Law references to do with the CCA.

 

Yes in BP court.

[chrismc]

Just another thought-Have you checked your credit files to see if anything is showing on there ?

 

Assignment could only have been legally done properly if they had the documentation that goes with the account when it was assigned.-there should be no need therefore for them to be saying that applications have to be made to the OC.

 

There is specific ICO guidance on this.

 

 

No not checked, but I have made a note on my documents to the court that they remove any adverse information and/or default information that they have placed on my credit files or office files.

[chrismc]

5.1 Informing or influencing decisions

 

There are many other examples of data which 'relate to' a particular individual because it is linked to that individual and informs or influences actions or decisions which affect an individual.

Example: Data about an individual's phone or electricity account clearly determines what the individual will be charged.

Context is important here. Information about a house is often linked to an owner or resident and consequently the data about the house will be personal data about that individual. However, data about a house will not, by itself, be personal data.

Example: Information about the market value of a particular house may be used for statistical purposes to identify trends in the house values in a geographical area. The house is not selected because the data collector wishes to know anything about the occupants, but because it is a four bedroom detached house in a medium-sized town. As soon as data about a house is either:

 

- linked to a particular individual, for example, to provide particular information about that individual (for example, his address) (see 4 above); or

 

- used in deliberations and decisions concerning an individual (even without a link to the individual's name, for example, the amount of electricity used at the house is used to determine the bill the individual householder is required to pay);

 

then that data will be personal data.

In both these examples the data about the house relates to the individual because the purpose of processing that data is to learn something about the individual (his address) or to determine something about him (the extent of his liability).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re your earlier questions-There is no prescribed definitions of proof of identity-ie that you have to supply a passport etc.

The only requirement is that you can show some proof that you are the subject making the request.

 

 

A data controller can refuse a request if they are not satisfied that the subject has proved who they are.

 

 

(Section 7 3 1 and section 7 3 a)

 

 

There is NO requirements under the Data Protection Act that require you to submit your signature either !!!!

 

 

Thats interesting about this

There is NO requirements under the Data Protection Act that require you to submit your signature either

 

and this

 

A data controller can refuse a request if they are not satisfied that the subject has proved who they are.

 

So were United Utilities within their rights to send out a questionairre to me and ask me to complete it before they would comply with a SAR?

[MARTIN3030]

No you are under no obligations to complete their own forms-providing that you provided reasonable info to show that you were the subject making the request.

Proof of name and sep proof of Address is enough to suffice.

I normally suggest a utility bill.

You can assume the 40 day clock starts one they have cashed your payment-even if they request further info after this since by cashing the fee it is an acceptance of your application.

The other reasons they can sometimes use for stalling is that your request for information was not specific-ie that you did not clearly state what it was you wanted them to send.

This is covered under Section 7.3.

However its pretty clear that they would have known what you wanted them to supply given the nature of the circumstances.

I was thinking as to whether Vertex have assigned their own reference number to their files for you....quite often DCAs will add to/shorten/or change original account reference numbers to reconcile with their own filing systems.

Just thoughts.

[MARTIN3030]

May also be worth you doing a section 10 notice-its too late for you to send this now but you could present it in Court and ask the Judge to order its compliance.

 

Another thing I have thought of is that you should do some copies of these docs that you will be relying on-otherwise the Judge will be forced to adjourn for 30 minutes to allow the other side to go through them-its not a good idea since this lessons your allocated time to put over your case.

So do some copies for all of you-this eliminates that happening.

Do you know how long has been allocated for the hearing ?