Can I give my house back to the mortgage company

[desperate&depressed]

Hi everyone

 

I really need some advice if at all possible...

 

We bought our house in 2007 for £212000 on a 100% mortgage. We also took out an additional £20k secured loan for renovations. In June of 2008 some delightful young chap decided to burgle the house and then set fire to it while we were away for the night. Everything we had was destroyed and the house was completely gutted.

 

Thankfully we had insurance and the house was rebuilt. We moved back in in December and since then have had nothing but problems. The guy that burnt down the house was never arrest and three weeks ago he came back to have another go at breaking in while I was home alone. We are also being constantly tormented by all his friends who live around the area. We are honest hardworking people who unfortunately bought in the worst street in the whole of Surrey without knowing it.

 

My husband has now had to stop working at night so that he can be home to protect me. I can't sleep at night and am scared to walk in my own front door.

 

But anyway, after all that background my question is...

 

Do you know if we can voluntarily give the house back to the mortgage company? We have had it on the market since December - have had one offer of £180k but we obviously couldn't take that as we owe £232k.

 

We have absolutely no change of getting what we need to clear the mortgage and secured loan and I am an absolute nervous wreck - I can't live here any longer and have even contemplated suicide as the only way out.

 

If anyone has any answers or suggestions I'd greatly appreciate it.

[GhostDebt]

Hi D&D.

Have replied to your question on my thread and would also like to suggest the following.

I believe you can give your keys back to the mortgage company, however you are still liable to pay the mortgage until the house is sold (e.g at Auction) and the mortgage provider may sell it at a price that is much lower than you can get if you sell it.

Have you discussed this with anybody? e.g Citizens Advice Bureau or the Mortgage company at all?

What about looking into a part exchange arrangement on a different property using the same mortgage company.

Sorry to hear about your circumstances, hopefully someone else will be able to post some more comments/information which you may find helpful.

 

Best regards.

[desperate&depressed]

Thank you so much for your reply Ghost - I really appreciate it.

 

Unfortunately we can't part exchange as we are with Northern Rock who are not offering any new mortgages or transfer existing mortgages for existing customers.

 

I am going to talk to the CAB on Tuesday so hopefully they will be able to give me some good advice.

 

I have spoken to First Plus and to Northern Rock, neither of which are willing for us to sell the house unless we repay the mortgage and loan in full, because we have paid every month without fail and are not in severe financial difficulties. I just wish they would even let us move it to an unsecured loan as we could continue to afford to make the payments once we'd moved out.

 

Another night of terror last night with his child mates throwing stones against our windows and kicking footballs repeatedly against the house. Police came but again nothing was done. ;o(

 

Thanks again Ghost!

[davey77]

Sorry to hear about your situation and i can't offer anything highly constructive. Hopefully CAB will be able to help you and give good advise.

 

In such circumstances i would write to a national newspaper and your local MP. I would ask that your MP write to the mortgage company directly as well.

 

(I know that would mean 'unwanted' publicity but it doesn't sound like you could be much worse off for it and you never know, it might get a result.)

[desperate&depressed]

Thanks Davey. I'd thought about going to the newspaper as well but am worried that that will completely jeoporadise any chance we have of selling - no one in their right minds would want to buy this house because of the area (the house itself is actually really lovely).

 

Going to my MP may be a good plan - thanks for the idea - I'm going to ponder that!

 

[raydetinu]

Also go to council and local police station about problems with the youths etc.

[gizmo111]

If you hand back the house you will still owe around 55K - that is a huge shortfall to make up.

 

Have you considered renting the house? What are rents like in your area - can you drop the mortgage to interest only and try that?

[desperate&depressed]

Thanks Ray. Have done that - the police are completely useless - very sympathetic but say that their hands are tied - the crimes are too small to do anything about (except for the arson of course but the can't get any proof that he did it because he burnt all the evidence).

 

The council won't do anything either even though the two main culprits are council tenants.

 

Thanks for the suggestions though - it's people like you that make me have faith again the human race!

[desperate&depressed]

Hi Gizmo

 

Thanks for your time

 

We had considered renting it out but Northern Rock have refused us permission based on the fact that it is a 100% mortgage. We appealed the decision as we could prove that we had enough income to pay the mortgage (already on interest only) and rent somewhere else for ourselves. The appeal was also turned down.

[charliebubs]

Hi D&D

 

I know that First Plus will transfer their charges, so should you be able to sell the house and pay back Northern Rock, you could transfer the First Plus mortgage to any new house you buy (provided that you have the equity of course).

 

Alternatively, how about renting the house out and moving into another rental accommodation. I know that this doesn't get rid of the debt, but if you balanced out the amount you get in rent for the existing property, with the amount you pay in rent for the new property you wouldn't be any worse off financially.

 

I have been in a similar position to you with mortgages with Northern Rock and First Plus up to the sky. Fortunately for me, that was before the market took a turn for the worst and I was able to sell that house and move, brining the First Plus debt with me. Fortunately I have got rid of them now too!

 

I'm so sorry to hear about you situation and wish you all the best.

[charliebubs]

Hi Gizmo

 

Thanks for your time

 

We had considered renting it out but Northern Rock have refused us permission based on the fact that it is a 100% mortgage. We appealed the decision as we could prove that we had enough income to pay the mortgage (already on interest only) and rent somewhere else for ourselves. The appeal was also turned down.

 

I'm not saying that its the right thing to do..................but you could always do it without telling them.

 

If you still live in the country and get your post redirected they would never know.

 

I rented without permission from NR my old property for over a year.

[desperate&depressed]

Hi Charlie

 

Thanks for the advice. I love how you guys just jump right in to help.

 

We are not going to buy another property so couldn't take the loan with us as secured. We have no equity at all anyway.

 

Can't rent it out as Northern Rock have refused us permission based on the fact we have no equity, regardless of the fact that we would rent somewhere else for us to live in that would actually be cheaper than our current mortgage - crazy!

 

Very very frustrating!

[desperate&depressed]

You're so right Charlie - we've been contemplating that. What's the worst they can do - reposses our house - feel free we don't want it anyway!

[charliebubs]

You're so right Charlie - we've been contemplating that. What's the worst they can do - reposses our house - feel free we don't want it anyway!

 

I think that technically, as you would only be breaching your mortgage terms and conditions, the worst they could do is sue you for damages. But to do this they have to prove that they have suffered losses due to your renting the house out.

 

So long as you maintained the buildings insurance I don't think there could be anything that could happen which would cause them to suffer losses.

 

If I were you, I think that's a risk I would take just to get out of there!!!

[patrickq1]

however you are still liable to pay the mortgage until the house is sold (e.g at Auction) and the mortgage provider may sell it at a price that is much lower than you can get if you sell it

 

you need to do a lot of research on this property as to was it burgled before by possibly the same person had the person who sold to you been getting the same problems.....try to get all offers to purchase from you in writing....now the building society must sell on or about your written quotations

make sure all refusals made by northern are in writing this further negates there effort to help you and also harms their defence in any event they have to take action

if the palace has had a histiroy of trouble and the house investigation done on your behalf and northern rocks if this has shown up you need to know

hope you can see where this is going in effect if any of the troubles do crop up from the past history then you might have a case against the vendors etc

[GhostDebt]

Hi D&D,

At the end of the day, you must do what is right for you and your family.

 

If you hand the keys back I believe its still gets registered as a repossession, if you don't pay the mortgage they would repossess anyway.

For your own well being it may be appropriate to rent somewhere else and try to rent out this house as suggested earlier and if that doesn't work, let them repossess it then there will be no option for them other than to accept the shortfall.

Think long and hard about it and discuss it with your other half before making any decisions, but it must be your decision and you need to take advice about it and do some research so you are aware of your rights.

 

Don't let them grind you down, we offer you our support and hope it all works out for you.

 

Hope it goes well.

Best regards.

[desperate&depressed]

Thanks Patrick. Nothing at all came up in the searches when we bought the house but since the arson last year we found out that there had been two attempted arson attacks on the previous owners and a burglary. This of course wasn't declared to us and we only found out before of the forensic officers that turned up and being surprised that there were new owners (us).

 

We are worried about renting it out because then the tenants would have the problems and we'd loose tenants left right and centre - noone would stay any length of time and we'd be stuck with rent and mortgage.

 

[davey77]

If nothing came up in the searches when (conceivably) it should have done then i would say that you may have recompense towards the Vendors and/or your solicitors who did the conveyancing?

 

Worth asking another Solicitor about that perhaps.

 

In reference to N.Rock refusing you permission to rent (and i understand that in itself could be a problem with nobody wanting to stay long or the insurance aspect) then issues that spring to my mind (albeit with no great knowledge on the subject) is in relation to your Human Rights?

 

No creditors likes any mentioning of your Human Rights being infringed in any way. After browsing around i found this information:

 

Your rights - Article 1 of the First Protocol: Protection of Property

 

"Article 1 of the First Protocol: Protection of Property:

 

Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions.

 

You should note that although the article refers to ‘enjoyment’ of possessions, it does not guarantee the right to live in a pleasant environment. So where a person’s enjoyment of their home is affected by environmental pollution or excessive noise, this will not necessarily amount to a breach of this article. However, if the interference is very severe and has a significant detrimental effect on the value of the property, the interference may amount to a partial deprivation of that property for which compensation should be paid (Rayner v UK 1986)"

 

(I don't know if this info is up to date, it's just what i have found tonight.)

I would get the possibility of this checked out by a Solicitor though. Upon confirmation, I would then use as an argument in your case. Whether that could be used to your advantage with N.Rock, the Local Council or even the Police it is worth investigating.

 

Not to say you have to take it all the way to Court but sometimes a threatening letter can move an organisation into being more accommodating of your situation.

 

I would also write a letter to the Chief Constable stating that although they have refused to be of any assistance whilst you are being victimised, that should anything untoward happen (arson etc) you will immediately inform the National Press of their reluctance to get involved in protecting your civil liberties and human rights. (Can't hurt.)

[davey77]

Could be (after further reading) less powers involved as British Law has not adopted all parts of the HRA but i still think it's worth shouting about. I'm afraid you are only going to change matters by shouting and getting nasty with these organisations. (Causing them negative publicity is probably the best option.)

 

Try am email to BBC Watchdog and Panorama

[charliebubs]

If nothing came up in the searches when (conceivably) it should have done then i would say that you may have recompense towards the Vendors and/or your solicitors who did the conveyancing?

 

Worth asking another Solicitor about that perhaps.

 

I'm a property lawyer and can confirm that these issues would NOT come up in the standard searches that are undertaken with residential conveyancing.

 

These are police issues and would not be noted against the title to the property or with the local authority.

 

However, the previous owners SHOULD have disclosed the issues on the Property Information Form and any replies to enquiries your solicitor/conveyancer raised.

 

In terms of recompense I'm not sure where you stand now. How long ago did you buy the house?

[bobbyh99]

Thanks Patrick. Nothing at all came up in the searches when we bought the house but since the arson last year we found out that there had been two attempted arson attacks on the previous owners and a burglary. This of course wasn't declared to us and we only found out before of the forensic officers that turned up and being surprised that there were new owners (us).

 

We are worried about renting it out because then the tenants would have the problems and we'd loose tenants left right and centre - noone would stay any length of time and we'd be stuck with rent and mortgage.

 

 

Sorry for poking my nose in, but you have said that you are terrified living there and your husband doesn't work in the evenings so can protect you!

 

Personally I would rent it out without telling NR (redirect you post), thats the only realistic thing you can do without losing a whole host of money and creating major credit problems. Sure you may get through a few tenants due to the problems with the yobs, but if you get a letting agent to do all that and can rent it for a few years, all well and good.

 

Good luck whatever you do.

BobbyH

[desperate&depressed]

Thanks for replying Charlie. Good to get your advice. We bought the house in November 2007 - would that make any difference to us being able to pursue the previous owners for not declaring it? Do they actually have a legal obligation to inform us of any police issues in the past - i.e. previous arsons etc?

 

If nothing came up in the searches when (conceivably) it should have done then i would say that you may have recompense towards the Vendors and/or your solicitors who did the conveyancing?

 

Worth asking another Solicitor about that perhaps.

 

I'm a property lawyer and can confirm that these issues would NOT come up in the standard searches that are undertaken with residential conveyancing.

 

These are police issues and would not be noted against the title to the property or with the local authority.

 

However, the previous owners SHOULD have disclosed the issues on the Property Information Form and any replies to enquiries your solicitor/conveyancer raised.

 

In terms of recompense I'm not sure where you stand now. How long ago did you buy the house?

[desperate&depressed]

Thanks Davey. Have been doing a little research on this myself today and it would seem that you're right - British law has not adopted the parts that are relevant to us.

 

The trouble with going to Watchdog/Panorama etc. is that the publicity will effect what very little chance we do have of selling. And secondly, what do we hope to achieve at the end of the day - get the people harassing us evicted from their homes? Apparently that will take at least 12 months to do.

 

Tis a very difficult situation. Have spend the last three nights with the police here - two of them after someone tried to kick the front door in. Tonight apparently the police are going to be here in undercover vehicles to see if they can catch them in the act.

 

 

Could be (after further reading) less powers involved as British Law has not adopted all parts of the HRA but i still think it's worth shouting about. I'm afraid you are only going to change matters by shouting and getting nasty with these organisations. (Causing them negative publicity is probably the best option.)

 

Try am email to BBC Watchdog and Panorama

[desperate&depressed]

Thanks Bobby - and you're not sticking your nose in - any advice at all is much appreciated! Maybe it's worth the risk of renting it out. The thing that's really holding us back from doing it is that we're still going to have to live with all the problems even if we rent it out -i.e if the tenants get burgled or the house gets burnt down again. And how awful I would feel if it got burnt down with the tenants in it. I guess I've got a caring human side that unfortunately these thugs don't!

 

Sorry for poking my nose in, but you have said that you are terrified living there and your husband doesn't work in the evenings so can protect you!

 

Personally I would rent it out without telling NR (redirect you post), thats the only realistic thing you can do without losing a whole host of money and creating major credit problems. Sure you may get through a few tenants due to the problems with the yobs, but if you get a letting agent to do all that and can rent it for a few years, all well and good.

 

Good luck whatever you do.

BobbyH

[WelshMam2009]

Thanks Ray. Have done that - the police are completely useless - very sympathetic but say that their hands are tied - the crimes are too small to do anything about (except for the arson of course but the can't get any proof that he did it because he burnt all the evidence).

 

The council won't do anything either even though the two main culprits are council tenants.

 

Thanks for the suggestions though - it's people like you that make me have faith again the human race!

 

I thought ASBO's were introduced specifically for this type of behaviour??