All out vs MBNA

[All out]

Hi,

 

Looking for some specific advice. I CCA'd MBNA for my credit card in Jan. nearly a month later they have sent me a response saying this:

 

"Thank you for your request; I can confirm the following are enclosed;

 

Terms and Conditions

Recent statement

 

In accordance with section 78... we enclose a copy of the credit card agreement (original and current) including applicable terms....I can confirm that a copy of the original credit agrement has been requested for and should we be able to provide you with a copy, we will forward it to you.

 

It may be helpful to explain that we are not required to serve a copy of the credit agreement which includes signatures, as the law expressly permits lenders to ommit signatures from copies af all credit agreements. What we have sent you is a true copy containing all the necessary material terms and conditions.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, all the necessary and prescribed terms are included in the enclosed credit agreements.

 

....."

 

So, the problems are:

1. There is no copy of original term, just current.

2. They have not supplied me with the signed agreement and all but admitting that fact.

3. Does this response mean I can not take any further action and I just have to wait until the find the agreement?

 

What to do with them next. Is the account in dispute?

 

Thanks

All out

[steven4064]

That is all you are going to get. They have fully complied wit their obligations under s78 but have not supplied an agreement they can enforce in court. What you could do is to write to them and thahk them for replying to your request under s78 but point out that what they have sent is not a copy of a properly executed agreement and neitehr does it contain the minimum requrements needed for a court to anforce it under ss65 and 127(3) of the CCA 1974. Offer them a full and final settlement of about 3p in the £1 as that is all they would get if they sold it to a DCA

[the_shadow]

Offer them a full and final settlement of about 3p in the £1 as that is all they would get if they sold it to a DCA

 

:eek: 3p in the £!

 

Well thats one way to ensure they respond with a legit agreement if they have it :D

[All out]

Wow! So I can not put the account in dispute. This approach seems a bit full on and I certainly willing to give it a go. What is their likely response?

[All out]

Something like this?

 

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Re: Account No/Reference No:

I write with reference to my recent CCA request under s78. However, what you sent me is not a copy of a properly executed agreement and neither does it contain the minimum requirements needed for a court to enforce it under s65 and s127(3) of the CCA 1974.

 

With this in mind I want to offer £xxx in full and final settlement of the account. This offer is made on the clear understanding that, if accepted, neither you or any associate company will take any other action to enforce or pursue this debt in any way whatsoever and that I will be released from any liability.

I also request that, if accepted, you will mark any entry on a credit reference agency file relating to the above account as "satisfied" in full, and that any default and/or adverse data is removed from such entry.

Payment can be made within 5 days of receiving your written agreement of this offer and method of payment.

I look forward to receiving your reply.

Yours faithfully

[steven4064]

Sweet

[All out]

Can you take a look at another post? Similar situation, this time Barclaycard.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/184511-all-out-barclaycard.html

 

Thanks

[All out]

Update!

 

I was in the middle of making my next MBNA move when I received this today.

 

MBNAletter2.jpg picture by All__out - Photobucket

 

I am unsure how to take this. Do they have it or not? Anybody ever got anything similar?

[bazaar]

They havent been able to locate it, they are hoping you wont press them any further on this. Send the default and dispute letter in, Minus the offer

[All out]

Thanks. It does sound like that they have nothing.

[gordon26]

Update!

 

I was in the middle of making my next MBNA move when I received this today.

 

MBNAletter2.jpg picture by All__out - Photobucket

 

I am unsure how to take this. Do they have it or not? Anybody ever got anything similar?

as a matter of interest what year did you open your account

[All out]

I think this was set up around 1998

[All out]

I wanted to make sure they definately do not have a signed agreement so I SAR'd them and CPR's them. They have come back saying they need something with my signature on it before they process my SAR. What do I do? I was clear in my request that they should not need to confirm my identity because they were happy to send me statements etc... If I send a copy of my drivers license will they try and take my signature off it and manufacure a CCA?

 

Thanks in advance

[steven4064]

Under s7 of the DPA they are allowed to satisfy themselves about your identity. Send them a signature signed in a different colour over your printed name

[bazaar]

DO NOT send a copy of driving lisense etc. They are playing games, Sign something with your wrong hand and photocopy it for reference in case they try to copy it onto a document.

Also, you need to make perfectly clear that you require the Agreement in its entirety , IE, the signed executed agreement.

[All out]

**UPDATE**

 

So, I had no choice but to send copy of drivers licence. However, I got a friend to witness it by signing across the front of the copy right over my signature. Anyway, still not response on my SAR nor on my dispute letter and nothing on on my CPR. Just got a letter on Saturday this time saying they are not obliged to send me a signed agreement. This comes after the original CCA request where they apologised for not being able to provide it. I shall give them another week to comply with the SAR at which time they will be nearly 1 month late. I am getting more and more convinced they do not have it!! I will need to check back to find out what to do next with them!

[steven4064]

Almost certain they don't have it - MBNA seem to have a policy of only keeping copies of the application forms.

[WelshMam2009]

Almost certain they don't have it - MBNA seem to have a policy of only keeping copies of the application forms.

 

That's all I received from them. No prescribed terms on the front but a second, unrelated "back" page with some terms shoved down the side!!

[steven4064]

Welshmam

 

THat might well be enforceable. Some MBNA application forms have a back page with the prescribd terms in a panel on one side (not usually very readable, mind), and the 2 pages don't really look as if they belong, often the 'back' has like an advert on it.. If they have sent you that and it looks like the 2 pages are back and front of the same piece of paper, it is probably enforceable.

[WelshMam2009]

Welshmam

 

THat might well be enforceable. Some MBNA application forms have a back page with the prescribd terms in a panel on one side (not usually very readable, mind), and the 2 pages don't really look as if they belong, often the 'back' has like an advert on it.. If they have sent you that and it looks like the 2 pages are back and front of the same piece of paper, it is probably enforceable.

 

Thanks Steven. Yep, that's what I got!! If they are part and parcel of the same document then potentially yes, it is enforceable. Trouble is, I genuinely don't believe that they are as the reference numbers on the front and back are totally different.

 

Don't want to hijack All Out's thread, but if you take a look at this post here...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/182509-help-should-i-cca-6.html#post2145265

 

you will see a copy of terms and conditions that are linked by reference numbers.

 

In my case, MBNA sold the debt prior to the end of the remedy period quoted on the already dodgy DN, so I would be claiming unlawful rescission also.

 

Sorry All Out ....back over to you!!

[All out]

No problem at all. Love seeing how other people are getting on and invariably these things help me as well. So far MBNA have not been ableto give me anything. Not even an application form. I did get the same thing as you from my Abbey CCA. I was told that was enforeable to. I scanned it and put it in another post you can search my post if you want to see. You might be interested because Abbey Credit Cards Are run by MBNA.

[WelshMam2009]

No problem at all. Love seeing how other people are getting on and invariably these things help me as well. So far MBNA have not been ableto give me anything. Not even an application form. I did get the same thing as you from my Abbey CCA. I was told that was enforeable to. I scanned it and put it in another post you can search my post if you want to see. You might be interested because Abbey Credit Cards Are run by MBNA.

 

Will do All Out

 

I also have 2 A&L cards with them and so far they haven't produced anything. However, I do have a copy of the original application form for one of the accounts and that definitely doesn't have any prescribed terms!! So, they will need to produce an agreement if they want to enforce that one!!

[All out]

So, Got the results of my SAR and they seem to have located my application/CCA. Is it enforceable?

 

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I am really gutted, I was sure they did not have it!!

[the_shadow]

So, Got the results of my SAR and they seem to have located my application/CCA. Is it enforceable?

 

I am really gutted, I was sure they did not have it!!

 

whilst I'm sure more knowledgeable peeps will advise... its strange that for a what looks to be a4ish size application it has just a small t&c on the back of it?

 

Shame you couldnt turn the images around before posting:p

 

Fraid if that is the back then it looks enforceable to me, prescribed terms are on the back and your sig on the front, they have "squiggled" on the top right their signature too.

 

Was your credit limit one of those in the table of Interest on the back page?

 

S.

[steven4064]

THey usually put something like "we will notify you of your credit limit" (and it must be "credit limit" not "approved limit" like Egg use, or anything else). To be enforceable, it must have this plus the interest rate and repayment terms.

 

It has the cancellation rights too - if not, it would be unenforceable under s127(4)