Joe public bunch of moaners

[rff04]

I am a CEO who works on behalf of the council and after reading through a great deal of posts on this site I am dismayed at how people on this site have been caught in the wrong and have admitted it and yet try to get off on a technicality.

 

I have read a post on here talking about how they parked in a disabled bay for 5 mins just to run to the cash machine and they got a ticket and how they could avoid paying the PCN on a technicality. I take great pleasure in issuing a PCN to drivers like this and you deserve everything you get.

 

Most of the signs showing were you can and cannot park are common sense and if you cant understand them you should not be driving cause ignorance is not an excuse.

 

I am totally against any CEO issuing PCNs on a illegal basis I believe that not only should they lose their job but also criminal charges should be brought against them. (And by this I mean just noting a VRM and issuing a PCN for a made up contravention Falsifying documents and so on)

 

If you get caught and you know you are in the wrong accept it, pay up, learn from it and stop moaning about it.

Edited February 2, 2009 by rff04

[lamma]

if the councils admitted when they were in the wrong that would be a fair bargain - but they don't. they punish motorists for trivialities (often unenforceably) while ignoring their own. Suggest you write a similar message to your council about unjust enrichment and malfeasance ask them what they are doing to prevent them. All the rules regulations and diagrams are laid out in detailed documents. All the councils have to do is follow them.

[rff04]

If a PCN has been issued incorrectly for instance showing wrong registration certainly appeal it and it will be cancelled as this cannot be enforced but appealing the contravention on the basis that the one of the yellow lines is not continuous because of a 2cm gap is just being a moaner.

 

The vast majority of CEOs do a good job, yes there are some bad apples but in the majority of the cases they are trying to stop the roads descending into absolute chaos. The problem is that a number of people believe they can do anything they want and sod everybody else. If some people could they would drive their cars into the shops and to hell with everything because they cant be bothered to walk twenty feet.

[lamma]

a 2cm gap will not get someone off on a technicality. At least you get great pleasure from your job. How many of your PCNs have gone to appeal and been won by the motorist ?

[rff04]

None.........................Any PCN i have issued is 100% and here is the reason why. I use my common sense even though I am not meant to.

 

For instance I am not going to issue a PCN to a blue badge holder who is parking in a Pedestrian Zone (Instant Ticket) if the driver has spoken to me and is going to the chemist for a prescription and have difficulty in walking and the nearest available parking space is 200ft away even though the council says I should.

 

I do enjoy my job, but also at times I can feel sympathy for people whos PCN is issued for a small infringement in parking regulations.

 

But at my job at times is nothing but utter hell, with people verbally and physically abusing me. I dont earn much more than the min wage and contrary to popular belief I dont earn commission on PCNs issued. So wether I issue 0 PCN or 100 PCN in a day I still get the sames wages at the end of the week

[Rooster-UK]

For instance I am not going to issue a PCN to a blue badge holder who is parking in a Pedestrian Zone (Instant Ticket) if the driver has spoken to me and is going to the chemist for a prescription and have difficulty in walking and the nearest available parking space is 200ft away even though the council says I should.

 

If what you say is true then you are to be congratulated on that.

You must be one in 10,000.

[lamma]

I agree.

[Steve__M]

With respect, your generalisations about the people who've come here are plain wrong.

 

A large number (most?) of people here have been unfairly ticketed. A lot of it seems to be jobsworth CCTV enforcers who bravely post their pedantic tickets to people who have briefly stopped to ask for directions, or open their garages, or have parked less than one minute before enforcement starts. Then there are CEOs who spot tiny mistakes in scratchcard permits, or as we read the other day, who ticket people in bays that are unsigned and then take photos of the sign on the bay over the road.

 

If they can be pedantic (or devious) about the rules then so should the people against who they're enforced.

 

I can't remember the disabled bay thread you refer to (or the 2cm gap in yellow lines), but people who park in disabled bays and people who deliberately avoid paying for their parking usually get comments suggesting they do not do so in the future.

[Al27]

This forum is not a place of judgement.

 

To avoid giving impartial advice because the person 'deserved it' is not justice.

 

What next? Banning defence lawyers?

[crem]

This forum is not a place of judgement.

 

To avoid giving impartial advice because the person 'deserved it' is not justice.

 

What next? Banning defence lawyers?

 

Be careful with your absurd suggestions Al27, someone may be taking notes and you will find it is law by next year!

[patdavies]

If a PCN has been issued incorrectly for instance showing wrong registration certainly appeal it and it will be cancelled as this cannot be enforced but appealing the contravention on the basis that the one of the yellow lines is not continuous because of a 2cm gap is just being a moaner.

 

Whilst accepting that a 2 cm gap can be rightly declared de minimis, the actually fact is that the law works in both directions. Yes, the motorist is supposed to obey the law; but so are the enforcing authorities.

 

If a line is damaged/missing over a significant distance, or parking bays fail to conform with statute, then the restriction is simply unenforceable in law - as the restriction has ceased to properly exist.

 

You may think that this is mere technicality, but enforcement authorities have to act within the law in order to pursue motorists. Attempting to enforce non-enforceable restriction is, quite simply, an abuse of power; the vast majority will be unaware of their rights and continue to pay.

 

Put simply, two wrongs don't make a right. If the authorities wish to enforce the law, then must act within it.

[sameagle]

rff04,

 

You appear to be very keen to convince us that you carry out your duties to the highest standards.

 

Can you say that your employers discharge their duties to the same standards, in every case?

 

Sam the Eagle

[pt2537]

Whilst accepting that a 2 cm gap can be rightly declared de minimis, the actually fact is that the law works in both directions. Yes, the motorist is supposed to obey the law; but so are the enforcing authorities.

 

If a line is damaged/missing over a significant distance, or parking bays fail to conform with statute, then the restriction is simply unenforceable in law - as the restriction has ceased to properly exist.

 

You may think that this is mere technicality, but enforcement authorities have to act within the law in order to pursue motorists. Attempting to enforce non-enforceable restriction is, quite simply, an abuse of power; the vast majority will be unaware of their rights and continue to pay.

 

Put simply, two wrongs don't make a right. If the authorities wish to enforce the law, then must act within it.

100% agree with this

Actually id go further and say that a local authority who fails to ensure their lines and signs are correct and inaccordance with the TSRGD2002 (as amended) are commiting a criminal offence if they knowingly enforce the defective restrictions

 

Just as the head of legal at my local authority about that;)

 

they have just had to have ALL the lines repainted due to gross errors on the authorities part and further more their failure to ensure that on entry to DPE the lines were marked correctly

[rff04]

Well whats the point in having any type of line on the road then cause at some stage they will become damaged and unenforceable. If you want to park on a single yellow line all you have to do is deface the time plate (this is off course is a criminal offence) but am sure there is a technicality that you could get you off.

 

The point I am trying to make is that if you get caught bang to rights dont try and wiggle out of it and whinge about it.

 

So many of the posts on here are about people trying to get out of paying a fine for being in the wrong. For example a commercial loading bay to any law abiding citizen is for commercial vehicles not a car to load your shopping in or out of because you bought a heavy set of weights from argos

 

People think that they have the right to park their car anywhere they please.

 

Yes the council or local authority have a responsibility to ensure that the road markings and signage is correct so that it can be enforced but in doing this I would assume that they would have to spend a shed load of cash and employ thousands to inspect the lines and signs every day of the week on every road to make sure they meet the correct standard. Would you be prepared to have your taxes increased to do this. I think not

[pt2537]

Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 (No. 2489)

 

 

A key part of these regulations is regulation 18, which states

 

Traffic signs

 

18. — (1) Where an order relating to any road has been made, the order making authority shall take such steps as are necessary to secure—

(a) before the order comes into force, the placing on or near the road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order making authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to persons using the road;

(b) the maintenance of such signs for so long as the order remains in force; and

© in a case where the order revokes, amends or alters the application of a previous order, the removal or replacement of existing traffic signs as the authority considers requisite to avoid confusion to road users by signs being left in the wrong positions.

(2) The order making authority shall consult the appropriate Crown authority before carrying out the requirements of sub-paragraphs (a) and © of paragraph (1) in relation to a Crown road.

 

So the authority when making a traffic order must give consideration to the lines, signs etc to ensure they are compliant, if they fail to do so it is arguable that the traffic order is rendered invalid. Notwithstanding the fact that the bay may not be marked correctly, a parking bay without a valid traffic order cannot be enforced

 

so, its not a matter of council tax going up, its a fact that if a local authority wishes to employ DPE then they MUST follow the law,

[rff04]

So if you local hoodie tears down a time plate for a SYL its ok to park on the SYL because it is unenforceable even though you know you shouldn't?

 

The amount of times I have issued to drivers who have parked on a SYL because they thought they could park there for 5/10/15/30 mins is unbelievable. So is ignorance an excuse also?

[rff04]

I read a post where a driver wanted the terms and conditions for a council run car park displayed on every bay because he had been issued with a PCN for out of bay and this site offered advice on getting of on a technicality. The driver admitted that he was not within the bay but he had to park in the space because of other peoples parking. Boo hoo accept you were in the wrong and pay the fine.

[noomill060]

"so, its not a matter of council tax going up, its a fact that if a local authority wishes to employ DPE then they MUST follow the law,"

 

 

....and by rff4's admission, any local authority attempting to wriggle out of doing so, can only be considered moaning, whinging and trying evade their legal responsibility so to do, merely on a technicality.

Edited February 2, 2009 by noomill060

[noomill060]

"So if you local hoodie tears down a time plate for a SYL its ok to park on the SYL because it is unenforceable even though you know you shouldn't"

 

It would be up to you to prove what I knew and when.

 

With out evidence, any suggestion to the contrary is pure conjecture.

Edited February 2, 2009 by noomill060

[rff04]

Any damage to signs and lines we are required to report to the local authority so that they can be repaired as quickly as possible so yes the council have an legal obligation to ensure that the signs and lines are correct.

 

But you have failed to answer the question if the TP for a SYL is missing would you park on the SYL knowing fine rightly that you cant?

[noomill060]

If the required signage was missing, I could quite legally park there, there being no legal reason why I shouldnt.

[rff04]

Lets say the signage just for argument sake for a disabled bay is missing but the bay clearly shows that the bay is restricted to blue badge holders only would you still park in it? With out the signage the bay is technically unenforceable for those people who dont disgest traffic management acts and orders

[noomill060]

If I did park there, would you issue a ticket?

[noomill060]

The Court is waiting for your answer, Mr rff04

[rff04]

You better believe it would have it slapped on your window within thirty seconds and yes it would be quashed but you know what I wouldnt care cause it would cause you alot of hassle and just because its not enforceable does not make it morally right for you to do it. And if you did park in it I hope a disgruntled member of the general public lets all you tyres down