Tragic case of Judgement because a cut up card was produced by MBNA at hearing.

[Von Greenbach]

I'm getting pi*sed off with these judges who think they're a law unto themselves.

 

Legislation is there to protect us, what's the point in having it if the judiciary just pleases themselves.

 

On a serious note Alf I would suggest to your friend he thinks about making a complaint to the Mnistry of Justice, what has he got to lose?

 

Let them judge explain to them above him his reasoning, it may show the judge needs to be retrained

[dpick]

I had similar with MBNA though mine as one side of microfiche copy of agreement no prescribed terms. I took MBNA to court to have declard unenforceable by creditor and return of charges and interest applied to caaount above total monies paid out by card using s142 and s127(3) of CCA MBNA wenty as far as entering defence then settled out of court.

 

As far as I can see s127(3) applies to this account and the judge is incorrect in his actions. This should be appealede.

 

dpick

[gizmo111]

What were the terms of payment on the CCJ?

[noomill060]

Alf- your friend has 21 days to appeal, it he can find the strength to do so, he cant leave it too long.

 

My thoughts are with him.

[alfwithhair]

What were the terms of payment on the CCJ?

 

£5 a month, but like I said before he has no intention of paying them anything

[rory32]

But he was a little concerned that if the court involved the bailiffs, (because he has no intention of paying cap one anything after the way they treated he) could they come to his daughters house and remove her posessions?

No. They can only take items that belong, or jointly belong, to the debtor. Even then they are limited in what they can take.

 

I would also add that you do not need to let a bailiff into your home, nor can they force entry. They can only use 'peaceable means' to gain entry, such as through an unlocked door or an open window. However, once a bailiff has gained entry into the property, they have the right to entry if they need to visit again.

 

If a bailiff visits when person under the age of 18 is alone in the property they must leave. They cannot enter if a child under the age of 12 is in the house, regardless of whether an adult is present.

 

You should also bear in mind that it is not unlawful for you to remove goods from your house or hide them before a bailiff visits unless the bailiff is distraining for rent.

 

Debt Basics - Bailiff Guide - know your rights

[alfwithhair]

No. They can only take items that belong, or jointly belong, to the debtor. Even then they are limited in what they can take.

 

I would also add that you do not need to let a bailiff into your home, nor can they force entry. They can only use 'peaceable means' to gain entry, such as through an unlocked door or an open window. However, once a bailiff has gained entry into the property, they have the right to entry if they need to visit again.

 

If a bailiff visits when person under the age of 18 is alone in the property they must leave. They cannot enter if a child under the age of 12 is in the house, regardless of whether an adult is present.

 

You should also bear in mind that it is not unlawful for you to remove goods from your house or hide them before a bailiff visits unless the bailiff is distraining for rent.

 

Debt Basics - Bailiff Guide - know your rights

 

Thanks for that Rory, will pass the news on to him. He has nothing of any value and lives in a grotty council flat (his words not mine) He was just a good old fashioned dustbin man until he was struck down by the big C.

 

His daughter however is a different story, she is an accountant and married to a property delevoper, so they have a lovely home, full of expensive items, hence his concern about the bailiffs. But he will be please about the fact they can't touch their stuff, as his will have gone on the tip before he moves in with her permenently. The fact they could not enter if a child under 12 was present, made him laugh they have a 6 mouth old baby that is always there so they are stuffed. LOL

 

Thanks again to everyone who has given their suppost to this travesty of justice. He rearly does appreciate it and is giving serious consideration to launching on appeal.

[angry cat]

OMG!

 

Appeal!!!

 

Do not let MBNA get away with this...covert tactics as ever.

 

Disgusted.

 

AC

x

[MARTIN3030]

Thanks for pm Alf-looks like someone already done it

[sillygirl1]

Did anyone get a clear look at the credit card because I doubt very much if it was the 'original one' and it is possible that they could have copied his signature onto a current card ... just my own opinion.

 

I think your friend really should appeal, I am sure us CAGers would rasie some funds should he want financial help in this.

 

MBNA should be feeling very ashamed of themselves.

[rory32]

Mean Barstewards with No Agreement would first have to develop so morals to feel any shame sillygirl.

[sillygirl1]

Their moral would be "We have your cut up card, therefore you used the account, therefore pay up."

 

The sad thing is they will probably try to claim from this person's estate (if there is any...) what a sad place debt collecting has become.

[underdog13]

Definately worth an appeal - what an absolute disgrace:mad:

 

e mail address for penman and sommerlad, journalists who cover this kind of story investigate@mirror.co.uk

[noomill060]

So the moral is- never ever send a card back, ever.

 

The Sunday Times is begging for stories such as this sad affair at the mo.

[rory32]

The simple fact of the matter is that the judge has erred in law. Definitely worth an appeal.

[alfwithhair]

Did anyone get a clear look at the credit card because I doubt very much if it was the 'original one' and it is possible that they could have copied his signature onto a current card ... just my own opinion.

 

Yes SG, the judge gave the card to us when he asked was it his signiture, It was the same card he cut up and sent back, start and expiry date were correct he remember what they were and had a mark in the corner same as the one he sent back, so don't think there is any question it isn't the original one he signed and used

[Desperate Daniella]

They can try to claim from the estate, but actually "your debts die with you." Years ago my mother worked for a bank. A man had died owing the bank a lot of money and they were chasing his widow for it. The manager admitted to my mother that they couldn't actually do that, but they all try it on. My uncle died last year and my aunt was being chased by his card company M &S , and when she told them she knew that his debts "had died with him" she never heard another word from them.

 

DD

[Desperate Daniella]

I still can't get this. All of us who are chasing for our CCAs had the credit cards and used them. Just because we used them doesn't mean the card company had ever had a properly executed enforceable agreement. That is what they need to prove an agreement is enforceable. They didn't have it. I cannot imagine that this wouldn't be overturned on appeal.

 

DD

[deepdebt]

Hi Gaggers,

What a shocking read, I often think what would have happened if your friend had had legal representation on the day at court, can't image that this would have happened like it did. Surely the whole point is they admitted to not having a CCA! these CC Judges are quite a worry and its a lottery to whether your get a proper one or not.

Thoughts are with you.

[The GodMother]

i cut up and sent 2 cards back to C1 but they have admitted in writing they wont chase me for any outstanding debt its part of a court procedings anyway.

 

I cut the card up so small that they cant prove if it came from card 1 or card 2 so i will find it funny if it ever turned up in court also one of the cards was not signed so i know they can do nowt.

 

Bad luck for your friend Alf he really does need to apeal we will all do what we can to help him.

[SteveH2508]

Ironic isn't it. They can't keep the important piece of paper they need yet they can keep and retrieve cut up pieces of a card!

 

Oh wait - it was being kept to amuse the threat monkeys as they don't have their own jigsaws...

[angry cat]

Why weren't the two halves disclosed during the pre action protocols?

 

Sounds like an abuse of process.

 

AC

[pt2537]

Ok, lets break this down a little.

 

Firstly you should never deny the existence of the debt itself as they can nearly always show that the money was spent.

 

The argument you will have more success with, is that the agreement was not properly executed and therefore the court should not and more importantly is restrained from making an order for enforcement

 

that is the key to winning these cases, the card shows nothing, it is something that we had recently and we pointed out it was not denied the money was spent only that the lender was denied the right to recover the funds

[HSBCrusher]

Terrible story, shows how these DCA's have no morals at all doesn't it.

 

I have never returned any card when asked, have always cut it up and disposed of it myself, am jolly glad now that I have.

 

 

The card belongs to the CC company, so should be returned as it is their property.

 

however... when cutting up the card, be sure that it cant be used against you...

[bazaar]

And in the hope of furthering this, if there is no agreement, then the card is a gift card, correct me if im wrong