Taking On Virgin Media Late Payment Fees / Non Direct Debit Fees

[nicolee2931]

Myself and my husband are about to take on Virgin Media to reclaim back any fees that have been added to our accounts. I will provide some further informtion first, my husband had an account with Virgin Media previously Telewest when he had his account with them, they applied Late Payment fees & non Direct Debit fees to his account, he held his account with them from the 28/11/2003 until I started working for Virgin Media as an employee. As I had become an employee recieving staff discounts on the services they provided us a new account was setup in my name along with a new account number.

 

My situation now is my husband and I have both sent SARs to Virgin they have come back and we both have a list of items we wish to claim back, we have both sent Virgin a request for the amounts we have calculated with a list of the fees in question, 28 days later we both sent them a letter before action also with a list of fees in question.

 

What we wish to know now is do we have to make seperate claims in the court as we have different account numbers, different names on the accounts and different amounts which would mean two lots of court fees for Virgin should we win and that worries me a little as a Judge could throw out both claims when they could have been treated as one, saving the defendant money and court valuable time. I have no problems issuing a joint or seperate claim for each of us I just want to do it right, any advice would be a great help.

Edited January 20, 2009 by nicolee2931

[buzby]

Since the claim is broadly similar, and you are indeed married - I'd simply combine them as I assume it reflects services provided at the same address?

 

From what we've seen Virgin play brinkmanship and have not (although I can stand being corrrcted on this) actually appeared in court to defend these and similar actions, invariably settling after-the-event.

 

Interestingly, it appears to be more difficult to challenge the late payment fees based on the fact there IS a charge, as the introduction of it was well publicised and not concealed from customers. The difference is they moved the goalposts, as previously the charge was levied after a bill had been outstanding for 30 days, it has now and without warning been reduced to 14 days, and this is from the date printed on the bill, NOT the date you get it. VM also appear to delay posting out their bills, as mine always arrive a week after the printing date, when other letters arive immediately the next day.

 

The non DD charge to me is the only one worth pursuing with any guarantee of success - especially since they are prepared to reduce the amount billed by way of a 'good customer' credit - which to my mind is immoral. Customers should never be held accountable for how much it costs firms to process their payments, and it is the tacit acceptance of this that is causing this whole problem to escalate.

[nicolee2931]

I have indeed wrote to Virgin and asked them why the billing system doesn't ensure prompt delivery of mail to their customers, I have also brought it to their attention about their late payment policy in terms of how it used to be 28 days then it got changed to 14 without Virgin not relaying this change to their customers, I have also asked them twice to justify the amount of £10.00 and give me an accurate breakdown of how this reflects their costs, and as so far I have been told this information is commercially sensitive and cannot be disclosed, so I am quite happy to chase them though the courts for late payment fees and non direct debit as I have given them reasonable chance to explain their actions. I am no stranger to chasing companies through the court for money owed to me, it would be quite interesting if the judge gave a direction for them to disclose their commercially sensitive information.

[freddyj]

FAO: Nicolee2931

 

Can you please update everyone on how you get on. I have applied for my SAR from Virgin and have found it difficult to find information about how far you have to go to get your money back, I get the feeling that to get anywhere I would have to take them to court which is a bit daunting...

 

FREDDIE

[nicolee2931]

I am at the stage now where I am going to my local court tomorrow to file the N1 against virgin, I am going for the lot late payment charges & non DD fees. I have given virgin more than a fair chance to explain themselves and settle. I think anyone who wants to get them to pay up is going to have to file a claim in court to get anywhere, I will keep you all posted as to my progress.

[MARTIN3030]

VM will NOT defend-if they do it will be a first-we would have known about this if they had-I looked on all the reclaim sites as well as other places as I did my own claim and found nothing.But they WILL defend if you do not get your partics of claim right.

In my opinion CAG is the authority on this.

The late payment charges are much easier to go for than the non DD fees in my opinion.

 

My advice on the claiming of 2 accounts re Nicolee would be to do them separate-but file at the same time.

When you come to negotiating settlement out of court you can negotiate the two at the same time-it will suit them to do that.

I dont want to say too much since I know VM are monitoring this site.If you need any help to kick off then PM me-I will assist on the understanding that all is revealed within your own thread when its sorted.

Edited January 23, 2009 by MARTIN3030

[MARTIN3030]

FAO: Nicolee2931

 

Can you please update everyone on how you get on. I have applied for my Subject Access Request from Virgin and have found it difficult to find information about how far you have to go to get your money back, I get the feeling that to get anywhere I would have to take them to court which is a bit daunting...

 

FREDDIE

 

 

If you read some of the past threads Freddie,you will see that there were refunds made OUTSIDE of a Court claim

Emma was one recent case.

 

Yes you may have to file a case but thats not to say you will have to attend.

At some point,when VM spots a weak POC or decides it has a good defence then they MAY have a go at defending.

But theres no evidence to show that at the moment.

 

Just remember-The VM Legal affairs team are employed to do a job-and they are good at it.

So you must make sure that anything you put in your claim form is watertight and can stand the court process.

 

I am very sure they would defend any case that they knew they could win.

[MARTIN3030]

Here is my thread documenting my claims with both Telewest AND Virgin Media.

There are lots of posts there too from others,as well as particulars of claim.

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/telecoms-mobile-fixed/9306-telewest-10-late-payment.html

[nicolee2931]

I dont want to say too much since I know VM are monitoring this site.If you need any help to kick off then PM me-I will assist on the understanding that all is revealed within your own thread when its sorted.

 

I wanted to keep the details of my claim as low profile as possible until its conclusion, I have done 50% of the claim off the forum such as issuing the SAR, 1st & 2nd letters before action as I know these forums are looked at by defendants we claim against and I know Virgin will try to identify me, however I am confident that with a water tight POC they won't wiggle of the hook. If I can assist anyone with starting a claim with what I have done so far I will.

 

Martin3030 I will PM you later for a bit of advice on getting a POC sorted, I do have a POC but a water tight POC is much prefered, I will put the details of my claim in a PM to you as well and when its conclusion is reached I will let the world know about the claim.

[buzby]

I differ from Martin in the relevance of Late Paymnent Vs DD Fees. Martin forgets that VM are now offficially discounting non-DD payers (I'm one!) by providing a permanent 'goodwill' refund. So on this point alone, they are on very shaky ground, as by admitting to this they are saying the fee is either too high, or that I am being subsidised by others.

 

The Late Fee is more difficult, as your pursuit will probably only succeed based on their limited time in which to pay them (10-14 days), instead of the original 30 provided for. There has been no public statement notifying users of this change.

 

To win, you need more that righteous indignation in order to win. If you lose, you can set back the rest who will follow, because VM will get cocky and think they are invincible. Plan carefully, and research everythnig!

[nicolee2931]

I differ from Martin in the relevance of Late Paymnent Vs DD Fees. Martin forgets that VM are now offficially discounting non-DD payers (I'm one!) by providing a permanent 'goodwill' refund. So on this point alone, they are on very shaky ground, as by admitting to this they are saying the fee is either too high, or that I am being subsidised by others.

 

My main problem is we are no longer Virgin Media customers, I cancelled my services and moved to BT & Sky, so I can't really ask for a discount in relation to the Non-DD fee, but I do hear what you are saying. I am going to get together a good POC making it hard for them to defend my claim. Virgin have backed down a couple of times over the late payment fees with myself as when I threatened to leave over them they credited two months worth back which I see as a sign of weakness on their part and I intend to use this in my defence, I have always argued with Virgin that because I signed up with them before they brought the late payment fee system in it was wrong of them to force my hand to pay them and make them a new Unfair Term within the orignal contract I signed.

[buzby]

In one of the VM leaflets I recieved it alluded to 'a number' of changes to our agreement (changes unspecified), and it supplied a complete copy of them, sayiing that these were now the T&Cs applying to my account in 28 days. I could accept them, or provide them with notice that I wished to cease and terminate. For those who were on a contract signed under 11 months previously this would prevail until the anniversary, then the revised one would apply.

 

This means they've got you on the changes, as the opportunity to terminate was given. In the last 2 years I have had 4 changes, so I watch them like a hawk!

[nicolee2931]

The problem with their Terms and Conditions is the same as with the banks, I was led to believe at the time they were conducting their business fairly and the charges were justified, who would have thought 5 - 6 years ago customers would be dragging their bank through the county court for repayment of charges the bank had applied to their account, the circumstances are the same the banks were given the opportunity to explain how they decided why they thought £28.00 - £35.00 was a fair amount to charge a customer, the situation with Virgin is the same I have absolutley no problem paying Virgin or any other company their like for like losses but for someone to extort me & others this is wrong and has to be dealt with, they will keep getting away with this as a means to unjustly enrich their business unless the brave few drag them through the courts and make them realise this is an unacceptable business practice. We all know it doesn't cost £10.00 to remind someone their bill is late, but I do agree some small costs have been incured, but unless they are willing to be fully transparrent then I can't prevent myself taking the the action I take.

[buzby]

As is your right. However, don't create the situation BT now enjoy due to them winning their action when a subscriber who took a similar view to you lost out. BT now point to this as vindication by the courts that hteir policy is both fair, justified and equitable.

[MARTIN3030]

My main problem is we are no longer Virgin Media customers, I cancelled my services and moved to BT & Sky, so I can't really ask for a discount in relation to the Non-DD fee, but I do hear what you are saying. I am going to get together a good POC making it hard for them to defend my claim. Virgin have backed down a couple of times over the late payment fees with myself as when I threatened to leave over them they credited two months worth back which I see as a sign of weakness on their part and I intend to use this in my defence, I have always argued with Virgin that because I signed up with them before they brought the late payment fee system in it was wrong of them to force my hand to pay them and make them a new Unfair Term within the orignal contract I signed.

 

Nicola,

 

Your reference to any previous credits or refunds as part of your defence would bear no relevance.

VM,as with banks, would simply say that they make decisions on a commercial case by case basis,and that because they actioned credits or refunds on your account previously,does not mean they admit any liability,nor that credits or refunds for similar requests should be handled in the same way.