Lloyds TSB Credit agreement - enforceable or not?

[plumberjon]

Hi Guys

 

Update for you.

 

Finally, on 11th March, I received a letter from Lloyds, this time the Hove office (I wish they'd make their minds up). A guy called Matt Bartle, Operations Manager for Credit Operations, Customer Service Recovery, Lloyds TSB.

 

He is merely apologising that I have cause to complain though, promising that he will get one of his minions to carry out an immediate investigation!

 

He states too that because of the complexity, it might take a while to gather the necessary information and respond. He has asked for me to allow them 28 days to respond!

 

A damn cheek if you ask me, as I sent the original "In Dispute" letter to them on 16th January!

 

But I did get a nice, but very poorly photocopied copy of the bank's guide "How to Voice Your Concerns" leaflet. Wooppeedoo!

 

PJ

Edited March 18, 2009 by plumberjon

[plumberjon]

Oh and I forgot to say.

 

This letter came in the same post as another letter from Lloyds with my monthly loan statement, and gues what?

 

Yes, you're right, they are STILL applying interest and charges!!

 

PJ

[plumberjon]

Today I have received a Default Notice dated 23rd March 2009!!!!

 

It gives me until 8th April to settle the arrears!

 

Which is conveniently before the 28 days they require to investigate my complaint! So how does that work?

 

Surely now they have acknowledged my complaint in writing, they should not be getting legal on this account?

 

Any advice?

 

PJ

[slick132]

They are in breach of the OFT Guidelines on Debt Collection.

 

Sections 2.6(i); 28.8(i) and 2.8(k).

 

See Link No3 in my signature below and check out the Data Protection and Default Issues forum.

[plumberjon]

Thanks Slick. I will start on a letter this morning.

 

I hope you don't mind, I've borrowed that link and put it in my signature too. Several points there that are useful for helping BrightHouse victims!

[plumberjon]

Just a quick note, noticed something funny today!

 

I use internet banking as it is very convenient. Although the accounts I have with Lloyds are still active, I don't use them and they are "dormant".

 

However, I log on occasionally just to check. Today I logged on and was greeted by an update page asking me to update my contact details.

 

I was surprised to see that all my phone numbers had been replaced by rows of 8's!

 

I know my real numbers were on here before. I have left them with the 8's, as I don't want them calling me anyway.

 

Do you suppose someone has at last acted on my request, and removed my phone numbers, so I am not called anymore?

 

Seems a little to good to be true to me!

 

PJ

[slick132]

Hi PJ,

 

Do you suppose someone has at last acted on my request, and removed my phone numbers, so I am not called anymore?

No, I don't - not for one moment !!

[plumberjon]

Hi all

UPDATE

31st March received another letter from Mark Bartle, asking for another 4 weeks!!!!

 

In same post received a letter from [problem] solicitors, now acting on behalf of Lloyds TSB.

 

To say I am somewhat annoyed is the understatement of the century, so I have just typed and sent this letter

 

"Thank you for your letter of 31st March 2009, again stating that you need another four weeks to investigate this complaint fully. I refer you to your previous letter of 11th March 2009, in which you also asked for 28 days.

The nature of both of your letters mentioned above admits that I have a complaint that needs investigating by Lloyds TSB. Therefore, there is no doubt that this account is now in dispute.

This being the case Lloyds TSB is now in breach of the guidelines set out by the Office of Fair Trading, for Debt Collection, namely sections 2.6 (h), 2.8 (i) and 2.8 (k). I summarise as follows:

1)On 5th January 2009, I wrote asking for a true signed copy of my credit agreement and enclosed the fee of £1.00, which was cashed by Lloyds TSB on 15th January 2009.

2) Lloyds TSB replied to my request on 9Th January 2009, stating that the bank was “unable to provide copies of the loan agreement documents”.

3) On 16th January 2009, I wrote again to Lloyds TSB, as the bank had failed to provide a true copy of the original signed credit agreement rendering the agreement unenforceable. In this letter, I also reminded the bank of its obligations whilst such an agreement was in dispute.

4) On 24th February 2009, I received a letter from Lloyds TSB Collections Centre in Andover (Letter ref: CLFR00) stating that the account was now in arrears and a special repayment programme had been cancelled, and the account would be referred for further legal action. This despite the fact that the agreement was now in dispute and Lloyds TSB may not demand payment on the account, nor pass the account onto a third party for debt collection purposes.

5) As I had received NO reply to my letter of 16th January 2009, I sent another letter dated 27th February 2009, this time to the collections centre in Andover. In this letter I also requested that all further communication be in writing only, as I was receiving numerous phone-calls asking for payment, despite the fact that the agreement was now in dispute.

6) On 5th March 2009, I received yet another letter from Lloyds TSB Collections Centre in Andover (Letter ref: CLFR10), demanding immediate payment, threatening further steps to recover the money. Again, this is in contravention to the obligations the bank has in disputed agreements.

7) On 7th March 2009, I received a statement of the agreement clearly showing interest being charged to the account on 14th February 2009 for £13.28. As this agreement is in dispute, Lloyds TSB may NOT add further interest or charges to the account.

8. On 11th March 2009, I received a letter from Mark Bartle, apologising for my cause to complain. The letter asked for 28 days for the Customer Service Recovery team to investigate. The letter was accompanied by a copy of the banks “Voicing your concerns” leaflet.

9) On 23rd March 2009 I received a Default Notice on the account (Letter ref: CLDFN0). The notice clearly stated that if I did not settle the account, then Lloyds TSB would appoint solicitors to claim what I owed through the courts, incurring additional costs. It also stated that details of my account would be recorded with credit reference agencies. It also stated that the notice would include the current information sheet on default from the Office of Fair Trading, but no such leaflet was sent. Needless to say, as the account is in dispute, Lloyds TSB should NOT be issuing a default notice, should NOT be registering account details with any credit reference agencies and should NOT be appointing a third party to collect the account.

10) On 31st March 2009 I received another letter from Mark Bartle, again apologising that investigating my complaint was taking so long! This time the letter asks for yet another four weeks. The “Voicing your concerns” leaflet enclosed with Mark Bartle’s first letter of 11th March 2009, states that Lloyds TSB will have a full response to my complaint in eight weeks. This means I should expect my response by 6th May 2009, which is in line with his second letter’s request.

11) Also on 31st March 2009, I receive a letter from Sechiari, Clark & Mitchell solicitors acting under instructions from Lloyds TSB Bank Plc (Letter ref: CLSOL9). The letter asks for full payment of arrears within 10 days, or legal proceedings will be commenced. Again it threatens to list details of the account with credit reference agencies.

Whilst I understand that a complaint of this nature requires detailed investigation, I shouldn’t have to remind an organisation the size of Lloyds TSB, of their obligations in such circumstances. Lloyds TSB are clearly in breach of OFT guidelines and have now involved third party solicitors.

As a result of the seriousness of these events, even though this complaint is still only half way through its allowed investigation time limit, I feel I have no choice but to report Lloyds TSB to the Office of Fair Trading and the Financial Ombudsman Service. Therefore, should I not have received a satisfactory response to this letter by Monday 13th April, I shall lodge such a complaint.

I look forward to receiving your prompt reply"

 

 

I also sent a copy to [problem] with this covering letter:

 

"Dear Sirs

In response to your letter of 31st March 2009, I refer you to a copy (enclosed) to Lloyds TSB.

 

This account is in dispute. Lloyds TSB should not be passing accounts that are in dispute to third parties, for the purposes of collection. This is in contravention of OFT guidelines for Debt Collection, namely sections 2.6 (h), 2.8 (I) and 2.8 (k).

I respectfully ask that you suspend any further action and communicate directly with the addressee of the enclosed copy letter at Lloyds TSB.

I thank you for your cooperation."

 

 

So let's see what happens next, any guesses????

PJ

Edited April 3, 2009 by plumberjon

[plumberjon]

Hi, me again!

 

Another update for you, this letter hit the doormat the other day.

 

 

 

There are some bits that seem to argue with the points in the dispute letter I have used. For example, they say they CAN still register a default on my credit file AND still chase me for payment.

 

PJ

[IdaInFife]

I would be making a complaint to the oft,

 

in the letter they are confirming the account is in dispute yet till demanding payment

 

ida x

[plumberjon]

I would be making a complaint to the oft,

 

in the letter they are confirming the account is in dispute yet till demanding payment

 

ida x

 

Yes Ida

 

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

Have they not shot themselves in their own foot I wonder?

 

PJ

[plumberjon]

Oh and also, not heard a dicky bird from [problem]!

 

Quiet before the storm perhaps?

 

PJ

[slick132]

Hi PJ,

 

I'd send a further brief letter to LTSB:-

 

Thank you for your letter of xxdate.

I am confused by your comments about continuing with collection activity and registering negative markers against my credit records.

Whilst your failure to supply the credit agreement continues, both of these actions are in breach of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines and the CCA 1974.

I am therefore now reporting this matter to the the FOS for formal investigation.

If you or your representatives press for payment, or if any negative markers are made on my credit records, I shall take such further action as necessary. This may include court action seeking compensation for damage to my reputation.

Until you provide the credit agreement as required by virtue of the CCA 1974, you cannot take the action suggested in your letter.

If you cannot provide the credit agreement, you should reduce the account balance to nil and remove ALL information about this account and the alleged debt from my credit history.

Also, make a brief formal complaint to the FOS now.

[plumberjon]

Thanks Slick

 

Sending that very same letter RD tomorrow.

 

Thanks again for your advice. Looks like I'm in for the long haul on this one!

 

PJ

[plumberjon]

Hi

 

Sent that letter above on 20th April and it ws received 22nd.

 

Just an interesting point though. I have just printed off the electronic proof of postage to the 2 letters I sent at the beginning of April (post #33 above). One to Lloyds in Hove, the other to [problem] solicitors in Brighton.

 

Slightly different addresses, but guess what? The same person signed for both letters at the same delivery time!!!

 

PJ

[plumberjon]

Just a quick update for you all.

 

I sent an official complaint to the FOS about a month ago.

 

Have since received a letter from the FOS stating they had received the complaint and were working on it, but it might be a while before I hear from them as they have a "significant" back-log of these types of complaint! I wonder why??

 

Anyway, I regularly check my online banking, just in case, and guess what? The bit showing the loan has mysteriously disappeared completely.

 

I am not holding my breath yet though, as I have had absolutley no communication at all from LTSB.

 

So watch this space!

 

PJ

[mungos mum]

Hi PlumberJon

Have been following your thread with interest as we have a overdraft/loan with Lloyds with no agreement signed at all, we have been through the Lloyds complaint process and have a complaint registered with the Ombudman at the moment, we get a bank statement every month with the charges growing, we feel that the debt is probably unenforceable but would welcome some feed back.

Mungos Mum