Advice Please

[timmyotool]

Hi all,

 

 

First post - would appreciate some advice on a situation.

 

 

A friend (Honest - it's not me)! has on Thursday last week received two documents handed to them in an envelope at work which he had to sign for to prove receipt consisting of:

 

1) the companies handbook

2) a list of (in my opinion fairly minor) failings in his job:

 

1) Failing to submit to do lists for the following day before a 4:30pm for a two week period (always submitted fairly soon after 4:30 - sometimes 4:31, normally as a result of the person he submits the list to asking to do something else at the last minute)!

2) Failing to complete activities on said list (Always stating valid reasons why not completed, i.e. told to follow up the next day etc.)

3) Failing to file paperwork (Not saving things in the right place etc)

4) A customer complaint re communication

5) Charging time to one project incorrectly

 

 

It looks to me like it amounts to preparation for a disciplinary hearing following an "investigation". However, there is no letter inviting him to a disciplinary or any other meeting, and no description as to why he has been given this list and the handbook. He has not been suspended or anything like that.

 

 

There is also no indication as to what may result from any disciplinary action if this is what it is for (i.e. how severe it may be if they find my friend to have been "incapable" of doing his job wich is what I am assuming that the company is trying to prove).

 

The company won't talk to my friend at work about it when he tries to, and I am very concerned for him as to what may be going on. He has received no verbal warnings (informal or formal) up to this point, but is worried that he will lose his job over this.

 

 

Even though there are some mistakes no one has taken the time to address these informally and it seems to me like he is being treated a little unfairly so far. I personally wouldn't see these warranting a formal disciplinary procedure being brought into play. Some of the things seem like "nit picking" and have been added to boost the number of items against my friend.

 

 

What action should he take here, try to work with the company to resolve if posssible I assume? Look for another job in the meantime?

 

 

How serious could this situation be do you think (i.e. what action could the employer take)?

 

Thanks in advance

[paulgmb]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Quite simple, do nothing!

By signing for the documents the company merely have proof he has received them and how long has he worked there?

Might have been useful and helped him in his work if he had had the company handbook from day 1!

As you say there is no other letter with this handbook and list of issues. I would suggest that your friend trys to adhere to the issues they have recorded and carries on doing his job to the best of his ability.

All the best,

Paul.

[Jimbo44]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Quite simple, do nothing!

By signing for the documents the company merely have proof he has received them and how long has he worked there?

Might have been useful and helped him in his work if he had had the company handbook from day 1!

As you say there is no other letter with this handbook and list of issues. I would suggest that your friend trys to adhere to the issues they have recorded and carries on doing his job to the best of his ability.

All the best,

Paul.

 

Couldn't agree more!! Make a serious effort to address the items on the list and frankly, if that's all the employer's worried about, get on with his job.

[timmyotool]

Well some developments

 

Yesterday he was asked if he'd like anyone to attend the meeting that afternoon...

 

When he asked what meeting he was told that the one in the letter he signed for (which wasn't in the pack received).

 

Now they have given him a letter inviting him to attend a capability hearing later this week. So it looks like they forgot to include the letter.

 

He was accused of deliberately not asking why there was no letter when:

 

a) Why would he know there was supposed to be one and

b) He has been trying to talk to someone since receiving the first pack to find out what is going on but has not been succesful in pinning someone down to talk to.

 

Does this change your advice? Obviously he should continue to work to the letter of the procedures so that he can show some instant improvement, but what should he do in the hearing?

 

I have suggested that he asks for their help to reach a common goal - i.e. help him to do his job by providing the necessary training and assistance, highlighting why there are failings, showing they have been working long hours (typically 50 hours a week) in a concerted effort to get back up to speed and pointing out the circumstances around the specfic instances they have highlighted.

 

Many thanks all.

[timmyotool]

Any advice anyone, the meeting is tomorrow morning...

[Sidewinder]

Sorry that this wasn't answered sooner.

 

Firstly your friend should find somebody to attend the meeting with him to take notes. If this is not possible then he must ask for an adjournment due to him not receiving the letter sooner. If they are trying to blame him for this then he should provide examples of occasions where he has tried to ask for advice but has been unsuccessful.

 

The meeting is his opportunity to answer any criticisms made of his work, so he must explain as you have that there were reasons for most of the apparent misdemeanours and give his assurance that he will address the concerns raised. He must also highlight areas where he feels that (for example) a lack of training or support has contributed to his failing to meet the expectations of the employer.

 

The good news is that as this is a capability process (rather than disciplinary) it is likely that he will be given a target for improvement - only if he fails to meet a reasonable target would he expect to face disciplinary action.

 

Let us know how he gets on

[timmyotool]

Sorry that this wasn't answered sooner.

 

Firstly your friend should find somebody to attend the meeting with him to take notes. If this is not possible then he must ask for an adjournment due to him not receiving the letter sooner. If they are trying to blame him for this then he should provide examples of occasions where he has tried to ask for advice but has been unsuccessful.

 

The meeting is his opportunity to answer any criticisms made of his work, so he must explain as you have that there were reasons for most of the apparent misdemeanours and give his assurance that he will address the concerns raised. He must also highlight areas where he feels that (for example) a lack of training or support has contributed to his failing to meet the expectations of the employer.

 

The good news is that as this is a capability process (rather than disciplinary) it is likely that he will be given a target for improvement - only if he fails to meet a reasonable target would he expect to face disciplinary action.

 

Let us know how he gets on

 

Thank you, that's both usefull and slightly reassuring provided he is treated reasonably during the meeting.

 

I did pick up your message and speak with him on the phone earlier this morning so I appreciate the advice.

[paulgmb]

Employees can be dismissed on grounds of capability. Has he got a copy of the companies capability procedure?

I agree that he should seek an adjournment given the fact that it is very short notice. If your friend is not in a Trade Union, he should ask a colleague to come in with him, perhaps you?

[timmyotool]

Too late unfortunately. I don't work with him so couldn't attend, but he had the meeting today, they haven't given him their decision yet...watch this space I guess. They were invited to the meeting on Tuesday so had 48 hrs notice, was that sufficient?

 

He has shown me the disciplinary procedure which is fairly standard. Informal warning, 12 months on record, if no improvement or another problem then formal written warning, another 12 months final warning, 6 months dismisal. There is no mention of a specific capability procedure, although the letter he got given inviting to the meeting states that the capability procedure is "similar to the disciplinary procedure). There are of course the usual get out clauses (i.e. stages of the process may be skipped if serious enough, the level of seriousness includes but is not limited to etc etc).

Edited October 30, 2008 by timmyotool

[Sidewinder]

Employees can be dismissed on grounds of capability.

 

Correct of course and I meant to repeat your question as to how long he had worked there. Assuming more than 12 months, then I would have thought that capability procedures in any organisation would mirror those for disciplinary in that they should give targets for improvement rather than summary dismissal. If under 12 months service then I would be worried as they may just use poor performance as a reason for dismissal without fear of UD consequences.

[timmyotool]

he's been there for over two years now. I'm aware that they should follow the capability procedures and set targets for improvement but that they may try to get away with not doing so! I'll keep y'all posted.

 

Many thanks

[timmyotool]

He received a verbal warning because none of the mitigating circumstances he raised were deemed to have affected his actions.

(Although the verbal warning came in the form of a letter - unusual that, I'd have thought there would have been some conversation)??!!

 

Mitigating circumstances included unhelpfulness of other colleagues, people not coming back to him, unclear processes, using the telephone instead of email, colleages telling her to work certain ways.

 

he has been given 2 weeks to make "immediate and sustained improve ment" meeting all the items mentioned before or further formal action will take place.

 

Would you say this is a reasonable amount of time? I wouldn't but I don't know much about these things.

 

He also has the right to appeal within 5 business days.

 

What should I advise him to do now?

[Sidewinder]

He should also have been told how long this will remain on his record.

 

Naturally your friend will pull out all the stops to make the neccessary improvement, but I agree that two weeks does seem a little short. I would certainly appeal that point as being unreasonable.

[timmyotool]

Well yesterday he got another letter inviting him to a further hearing tomorrow. A new list of failings (again all minor), and all different to the original list. Are they allowed to continue the capability hearing on totally different items?! I get the feeling they are just trying to get rid and go through the process as quickly as possible.

[timmyotool]

First off apologies for dragging up an old thread.

 

Second here is an update:

 

My friend eventually handed in his notice under the increasing pressure of the capability hearing. This was about two weeks ago.

 

Here is an update and overview:

 

Someone that still works there has been in touch to let him know that they are now going through redundancies. Suprise suprise.

 

 

So it went like this

1) list of failingss given, meeting request, verbal warning, 2 weeks to improve.

2) Second list of failings given, meeting request, formal verbal warning, 2 weeks to improve

3) Third list of failings given, meeting request, written warning, 2 weeks to improve

4) Fourth list of failings given, meeting request, final warning, 2 weeks to improve

5) Handed in notice

6) Put on gardening leave immediately

7) 2 weeks pass then redundancies

 

This is a bit suspect to me, the timing implies that he would have gone only just before redundancies started had he been deemed "incapable". With this in mind would he have a case for constructive dismissal or is it too late now?

 

Just curious out of interest really and I also want to say thanks for the initial advice from you all.

[kfdh1962]

hi timmy,

the time frame for imrpovement after each warning seems very short to me, how can any demonstrate sustained improvement over such a short space of time?... did your friend appeal against the time frame for imrpovement as sidewinder suggested?

you mentioned they gave a list of failings, did they also document the agreed imrpovement targets and how they would be measured and monitored?

the whole process does sound unreasonable and there may be grounds for either unfair or maybe constructive dismissal. I believe generally tribunals will look to see if the statutory procedure has been followed and if the company's actions were reasonable...

Edited February 12, 2009 by kfdh1962
sausage fingers !! type o's

[timmyotool]

Thanks,

 

Those were my thoughts too.

 

I think that he did contest the 2 weeks thing but not sure.

 

I did see some target setting. Basically not to fail on any of the items listed again.

 

Documented evidence of the failings was not always available before the meetings took place. Greivences raised were not considered good enough reson to have failed etc etc.

 

I think he just wants to move on asap, but given the current climate this might not be easy. I'll try and spend some time with him to discuss and see if he wants to take further action I guess.

[kfdh1962]

did they investigate his grievances or just dismiss them?. When grievances are raised during disciplinary action, especially when they directly relate to the issue in question, the disciplinary action should be suspended until the grievances are fully investigated