Housing benefit admin penalty & summons ***WON***

[silverfox1961]

LONDON NW

Got your PM but can't reply till you clear some space

 

fox

[dano123]

Bubblzee ... just read this whole thread with great interest, and like everyone else simply appalled it has reached the point of Court procceedings! I've had some dealings with false allegations by authorities in the past, and know from experience how terribly stressful the whole process quickly become, when you become aware of the lies, 'misunderstandings', false statements, etc.... The one thing I still kick myself is to have eventually accepted a 'deal' in order to stop the sheer nightmare they had forced me in! I really wish I had known about this site at the time, if only for support, as that was the only thing I really needed! Stick to your guns, Bubblzee! If some 'deal' is ever proposed, it's because THEY have their back against the wall, and they are looking at YOU for a 'favour', so that THEY don't lose face! You've reached so far now, and have obviously done your homework and a lot of research, etc... You are NOT guilty, and that is it! If THEY can prove differently, let's have that trial! If they can't, it's up to THEM to drop the charges! YOU don't owe them any 'favour' by making a 'deal'! But as someone else in this thread mentioned, don't expect any apologies! They'd rather choke than admitting that THEY have messed up!

Will keep an eye on this thread to see how you are getting on, and wishing you all the best!

[bubblzbee]

Thankyou dano123 for your support. It is very hard to fight when they put so much pressure on you. They have threatened me with my job, a conviction, debt. Its disgraceful.

I have some updates to post as still ongoing and still awaiting to go to court as it keeps being postponed.

My case was originally meant to be in jan, and was re scheduled for mid april. However I received a letter today informing me that my trial had been moved to June.

The council have been reluctant to help my solicitor with enquiries though I have got backing now from my local MP which is fantastic, and they are making enquiries of their own.

As for the Ombudsman I have yet to have a response from them after i sent them a letter requesting them now look into my complaint as the time limit imposed by them had lapsed and still the council have not responded to my complaint/appeal adequetly.

The council have written to me informing me that they are unable to look into my complaint until after the court hearing. They also add that they have contacted the ombudsman and informed them of this, so it seems I am still left waiting for them to do something.

My first appeal was filed on 14th August 2008 and i am still waiting for them to look into it. It is rediculous as now the court date has been rescheduled for june they will soon contact me telling me they cannot look into it until after the new date.

I am not going to back down. I have already been informed by my solicitor and the MP that the whole fact they are offering me to pay the admin penalty up to the day of the court hearing is a sign they are not confident in the strength of their case.

I am stressed to hell, but nothing I cannot handle, i am used to it now. I have been battling with this for so long, I feel I must fight on regardless. I know they will never appologies for what they have put me and my family through.

I will keep updating as soon as I have any new info.

Thanks again

[surprise]

I was wondering how your case was going on. I seems hard to believe that the Council are being allowed to get away with postponements all the time. I'm glad your MP is involved. It wouldn't surprise me if there isn't some kind of climb down before June, if they were sure of their case they would have had you in Court in January.

 

At least you have got support now so don't let them wear you down.

[silverfox1961]

Hi Bubblzee and surprise.

 

At this stage I would be getting your brief to pressure the council into no more delays.

This has gone on far too long. Accepting the admin penalty is an admission of guilt so I'm not surprised you won't accept it.

 

This is going to be a very complex case once it gets started by the ombudsman so no quick fix.

 

Once you have the definite date of the trial, keep us informed and we'll all be thinking of you.

 

 

fox

[StubbornAdventurer]

Hi,

 

Just quick intro to my situation as way past my bedtime.

 

I told jobcentre [handed in UB40 completed with sign off details] I had started work in 2006 this time they failed to tell housing and council tax benefits this.

 

I delayed telling housing and council tax benefits that had started work as previously they had messed up my claims. I have done lots of temp work/short term work over the years, so claimed on and off many times for these 3 benefits. The reasoning behind this was as I was due the post 6mth follow on benefits payments [4 wks pay of housing and council tax benefits] as was out of work for over 6 mths. Previous times they had not paid me this when I was due it.

 

I ended up getting 2 mth overpayment [c £350 total]. I told [rang up] housing to stop my housing ben and council tax ben [HB & CTB] 3 mths down the line, to ensure I would def get the extra pay due. I went through a phase of having very messy admin/paperwork system and lost control with my paperwork due to working 2 jobs. I had told the jobcentre remember! So much for info sharing with the council/DWP! I expected the benfits to stop after the 4 wk extra benefits I was due but they overpaid me an extra 2 mths. I found myself inbetween a rock and a hard place. The hous ben advisor/council phone clerk asked when I started work. Due to feeling I had not been in total control of paperwork I said I had started 3 mth later.

 

I was working c30h/wk for one company then 3 mth later was offered a full time job, so took that also, but cut first job's hrs down to c 10/wk.

 

Finding myself in sticky situation I just stated start date of the full time job and kept quiet about the prev job for a few mths. I had answered the question she asked me truthfully and I had rang up to stop the benefit being paid. I just kept quiet about the previous c8wks working for the company as the jobcentre had not informed them.

 

I was busy with the 2 jobs so when asked to come in for interview under caution I declined as too busy. After many times declining as was busy working. They offered mew admin penalty, which I really did not want to accept. With the poss of a criminal record if for any reason the case went to court and they didn't believe me and they had no record of me informing them that had started work, I reluctantly signed admin penalty planning to dispute at later date, as was too busy at the time.

 

I am now in a poss stalemate situation with council where they want me to pay admin pen but we are not obliged to pay till after paid back overpayment. I still owe small amount of overpayment [c£30 or so]. They keep hassling me for this admin fee. I keep trying to play for time.

 

I got all info on me under Freedom of Info Act (2000). I asked for electronic copy but they sent me half the rainforest, or at least half a tree [ ].

 

I am due to go abroad very soon to work. I don't want all this nonsense hanging over my head. The admin fee is for c £100. I don't want to pay on principle.

 

 

The main questions/issues I have is:

1- can i dispute having to pay admin fee now signed the form?

2 - could I theoretically/realistically come back to the country in future to find I have CCJ/criminal record if they go to court without me and poss without my knowledge?

3 - can i send them a bill for my time, stress and admin fee?

4- can i just correspond through email when abroad?

 

I have told them I am having debt counselling/mgmnt. I also, on several occasions told them that they have not answered my email about my underpayment/backdated benefit I should be paid.

 

Had court threat letter recently. I replied by email. Had call recently that they wanted me to pay admin fee before they'd submit for legal assessment/proceedings/costs.

 

The email I recently got was that I should pay the admin fee and they'd accept £3/wk. This is too high and I dispute the fact that I need to pay for bad council admin.

 

The info from freedom of info request shows solicitor stating that diff to prove fraud as I stated that had told advisor was working. On other hand a box is ticked for fraud and also an individual [council worker, I believe] says they think have enough evidence for fraud conviction.

 

 

All comments welcomed. Thanks.

 

So much for my bedtime. Right off to bed now!

Edited May 14, 2009 by StubbornAdventurer

[surprise]

Hi - You need to start a new thread please so that you can get the help you require. Will pop back later to see if you are getting any help.

[carolmac34]

I've read through this thread with great interest & wish you all the very best bubblzbee, i'll be checking back regularly

 

 

 

I had told the jobcentre remember! So much for info sharing with the council/DWP! I expected the benfits to stop after the 4 wk extra benefits I was due but they overpaid me an extra 2 mths.

 

just a thought .... does this mean that when I went into my job centre to sign off in August to start temping work, that they should have informed the Council that I was no longer entitled to council tax benefit? (makes sense i suppose as it was the job centre that completed my claim for council tax benefit at the same time as my job seekers allowance)

[Big Boss Man]

Sorry to hear of your ongoing problems, i have just been passed the details from silverfox1961 regarding your case.

 

I can not beleive the matter is not sorted out yet, i am currently experincing similar problems and it looks like i am in for a long ride.

 

I will keep an eye on your developments, Keep us informed of your progress.

[surprise]

It is your responsibility to inform HB and CT benefits when you become employed this is why so many people get into trouble they assume that the JC will do this but they are not always reliable.

[bubblzbee]

Hi All!!

I have been to court today and have WON.

I am still in shock . I have been fighting this matter for so long and now its a relief that its over.

I am now going to contact the ombudsman - as there is now no grounds for excuses anymore.

I am so glad I stuck it out despite all the threats and mad offers put for me to not progress to trial.

I can finally sigh relief as the stress has been lifted.

 

A message to anyone else who is claiming housing benefit and facing anything like me- stick to your guns - don't let them pull wool over your eyes with offers or its another way for THEM to get you to back down.

Thankyou to everyone who has helped me

I will update as soon as heard news from ombudsman.

 

Thanx

 

Bubblzbee

Edited June 29, 2009 by bubblzbee

[surprise]

Congratulations and well done for sticking to your guns.

[bubblzbee]

Thankyou surprise, you have been very supportive and helpful.

Thank you so much - will keep you posted on how ombudsman complaint goes.

[silverfox1961]

Bubblzbee,

 

I am so chuffed to bits for you.

 

You took on the big boys and WON

 

congratulations.

 

Now go get em

 

fox

[Big Boss Man]

Great to hear your news, well done.

[maroondevo52]

Good stuff, Bubblzbee

 

Congratulations, I'll add WON to your thread 'title'

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[surprise]

You probably haven't been able to relax much over the last few months but sleep will proably be just as hard tonight with the relief of it all plus all the satisfaction you must feel.

 

Hopefully you will get some compenation from the Ombudsman as you well deserve it.

[jansus]

Well done you I am pleased that your determination has been rewarded.

 

Hope the final outcome is favourable

[silverfox1961]

Hi again Bubblzbee,

 

When you get a chance, would it be possible to post up a brief synopsis of what happened at court.

 

This could help others who are in a similar position know what they are likely to face.

 

fox

[scuzziemoo]

Fantastic!

 

I've just read the whole of this thread, so glad that it went your way in the end, not that there would've been any doubt of that!

 

Hope the ombudsman finally does something.

 

again YaY

[bubblzbee]

Here is a brief overview on how it went on the day:

 

Just before i entered the court room my solicitor presented me with a new offer from the council, which they claimed would have immediately halted the trial and i would have been cleared of everything...charges etc.

All they wanted me to do was write a statement there and then stating that I had made a mistake and had taken the documents into another council department instead, and then sign the statement. I would also have to withdraw my plea and the council would then submit this new statement as 'late evidence'

This would have been a complete lie, and i immediately refused as I suspected they were trying to trick me.

On refusing the bribe I entered the courtroom and the trial began.

It was long and hard going in there - but i could see from the start the council were not as confident as they had previously had been.

I am so glad I won - I feel like a huge weight has been lifted I am now persuing matters to sue the council for the damage and mistakes they have made.

[hallowitch]

i haven't posted but scrubbed to this thread from the start and looked in on updates

WELL DONE FOR GOING THE EXTRA MILE and not caving in at the last minute

i hope you are feeling very very proud of yourself because you should be again well done

[silverfox1961]

Morning, (got you PM-Thankyou)

 

It just goes to show just how "big" these people seem to think they are but when it comes down to it, they have to follow the law just as much as we do(even more in some cases).

 

I'm so happy you didn't cave in to their "deal". The solicitors get paid anyway and you left with your honour intact. Having to lie is wrong, plain and simple!

 

Your strength during this debacle is inspiring and I hope that you will be able to assist others who may end up in similar circumstances.

 

As for sueing the council, I'm not sure if you would get legal aid to do it however, with all the evidence of council malpractice, the Ombudsman will be very interested and if you don't get compensated, I will be very surprised.

 

Knowing that I helped in a very small way has made my week.

 

Surprise needs a medal (as well as you)

 

fox

[mkb]

Here is a brief overview on how it went on the day:

 

Just before i entered the court room my solicitor presented me with a new offer from the council, which they claimed would have immediately halted the trial and i would have been cleared of everything...charges etc.

All they wanted me to do was write a statement there and then stating that I had made a mistake and had taken the documents into another council department instead, and then sign the statement. I would also have to withdraw my plea and the council would then submit this new statement as 'late evidence'

This would have been a complete lie, and i immediately refused as I suspected they were trying to trick me.

On refusing the bribe I entered the courtroom and the trial began.

It was long and hard going in there - but i could see from the start the council were not as confident as they had previously had been.

I am so glad I won - I feel like a huge weight has been lifted I am now persuing matters to sue the council for the damage and mistakes they have made.

 

 

This council's behaviour is atrocious! I'm so glad you stuck it out & won