Welcome Finance Problems 1

[postggj]

felix

 

peter is the main man

 

he did welcome for me

 

you are in good hands

[Peterbard]

Hi

OK some good news some bad dependant on what your after and a few bits of information i am guessing Because i wasn’t there when the document was executed.

Firstly I am seeing this as a multiple agreement consisting of a primary hire purchase agreement and a credit agreement

Looking at the two sets of figures separately.

The HP agreement

Total credit £6550 correct

TAP £9780.12 Incorrect this figure should have contained the £50 option to purchase fee as required by the total charge for credit regulations 1980

Total charge for credit £3230.12 incorrect as this also should have contained the option fee

APR 32.1 incorrect as the option fee was misstated so the calculation is incorrect real rate with option fee included within the last payment is 32.5%. This exceeds the leeway granted by the TCC regulations which is that the agreement should not display an APR that is more than .1%below the actual figure.

The other fees in this section are correctly placed within the TCC

The Credit agreement.

A)The main issue here is was this really an optional agreement if it was then you will not be able to claim unenforceability under section 127(3).

If it was compulsory then irrespective of what it says on the agreement, all figures,(total credit total charge for credit etc) should be contained within the total charge for credit of the primary agreement (HP) of which the multiple is formed.

Failure to do so would make the total credit incorrect and thus unenforceable, their is bags of case law for this which i will supply you with.

In itself the APR and the TCC are correct

The combined agreement

If the paragraph A) above applies the total credit figure is incorrect and that agreement is subject to section 127(3) and unenforceable.

In either case the TAP and the TCC are both incorrect as they do not include the option to purchase fee as previously mentioned the APR is also incorrect for the same reason.

There should also be a figure for the combined APR as the two stated are not the same if this was there it would be 32.4% including the option fee.

Summary

If the shortfall insurance was a condition of getting the loan then the agreement in my view is unenforceable.

If it was indeed optional then you still have a good case to challenge the agreement on the facts that the APR was misstated and the option to purchase fee was not correctly applied to the TCC.

I doubt that you would be able to stop the agreement being enforced but you may get the court to vary its terms in your favour.

[felixfly]

Hi

 

Thanks again for all your help with this.

 

Supposing the HP agreement was unenforceable. What would be the next step for me now i have another originally secured loan that was partly used to pay this off, is now unsecured and it has been passed on to a DCA who have added £8000 and are demanding £28,000 by Thursday.

[felixfly]

Hi

 

Yes, i refinanced with welcome, that is the secured loan which i put up previously in this thread.

 

Regards

 

Felix

[felixfly]

OK, Here is my plan.

 

My original car loan was unenforceable. Of the 15000 i borrowed afterwards, £6000 went to pay this off. As it was unenforceable I only owe £9000 not £15000 right? If i work out the interest on this rather than £15000 and Minus what I have paid do you think they would accept 25% of this balance to settle? They are selling their debt for 18p in the pound at the moment.

[felixflyer]

Hi

 

Well Its all been quiet until now. I basically had a solicitor look at my agreement and Welcome stopped contacting me. my solicitor finally came back and said that the monthly repayment has been worked out wrong. However as there has been no precedents or authorities where the courts have dealt with these kind of arguments they are not willing to progress on the no win no fee arrangement as they cannot be satisfied that there is more than 50% chance of winning.

 

I have today received a letter from the Lewis group demanding over £23000 immediately.

 

What should I do next? My solicitor has washed their hands of this.

 

I would like to start repaying monthly but I dont think I should be repaying £23000 when I only borrowed £15000 and have paid towards it already. I dont have the cash to make any kind of decent F&F offer though.

 

Any advice?

[felixflyer]

By the way Welcome sent me a default notice a while ago and it wasnt correct. I know this and so do they as when i received my SAR (The correct one as they sent me someone else'e info first) they had actually written 'incorrect NOD sent' twice.

 

Now the letter from Lewis is demanding the full amount. Does this mean they will not accept monthly payments?

 

How much do you think they would take as F&F?

[Major Player]

Felix, offer 10%

[felixflyer]

Well I offered 10% and had a letter from Lewis saying it had been referred to welcome. Then I got a letter from Welcome saying they disagreed with all my arguments. They want £23500 and wont accept the f&f offer. I have today received a letter from Howard Cohen Solicitors. Is this about to go to court? I don't know where I stand with this now. All I know is I took out a £15000 secured loan paid it for a year then lost the house it was secured on and they got given £1500. I entered into an arrangement via CCCS and whilst they agreed I could pay £80 they added £200 every month in interest. I cant afford £23500 especially as i only borrowed £15000. What should I do now?

[beyondhope]

HC are welcomes solicitors in the same vain as lewis group are their in house debt collectors

 

on what grounds do they disagree? are you happy to accept that they disagree or will you challenge their opinion?

[beyondhope]

just had a scroll back and noticed you had an issue with how the interest was worked out....have a look at the sticky thread at the top of the welcome forum a cagger has had it in black and white how they work it out and alot of people who thought their interest was miscalculated have since found its not :S

 

 

(no worries maroon )

[felixflyer]

Well the lowest F&F they will agree to was 35%. I cant afford this as they have increased the balance so much. I think I will have to enter into a monthly payment plan as I cant see what else I can do.

 

Does the fact that the default notice was incorrect mean anything

[felixflyer]

OK, so I have received a statement and they have been adding on nearly £300 a month in capitalisation. How can they do this seeing as they defaulted the account over 2 years ago. I have noticed that the default dissapeared from my credit file though. They do not contact me, just keep adding the interest and the amount owed just keeps going up and up. I cant afford to pay and they wont accept my F&F.

 

Can they keep adding this capitalisation after they have defaulted me? Can they default me and then take the default back and charge interest? Does the fact that the default was incorrect mean they can do this? If so it means there is one rule for them and another for us.

[felixflyer]

Hi

 

I had a secured loan with Welcome Finance. Its a long story but basically they defaulted me due to me not paying when I put the account in dispute. The default notice was probably incorrect knowing them but it was on my credit file as a default.

 

about a year later I noticed that they had taken the default off the file. I have had a statement from them and it appears that they have been charging interest every month.

 

Are they allowed to just remove a default and then charge all the interest that would be due had they not defaulted the account?

 

Can they continue to add interest? (Capitalisation they have called it on the statement)

[dx100uk]

what do you mean?

 

that's std practice.

 

you owe them money they can add interest ...

 

dx

[Feelingdownandout]

have you been paying anything toward this loan?

[felixflyer]

I haven't been paying anything towards it for a long time. I put it in dispute due to them not being able to provide me with a CCA.

 

I understand that they can charge interest but surely once they default the account they can no longer carry on charging the contractual interest as they have terminated the contract.

[dx100uk]

thread has been tidied........

 

i suggest you ping peterbard.

 

dx

[Guest]

thread has been tidied........

 

i suggest you ping peterbard.

 

dx

 

Hi

Did i hear a ping?

 

Yes there is nothing stoping them charging contractural interest until the account is terminated.Then it depends on what is said on the agreement, if nothing then they can charge Section 69 rate(8%pa).

You could challenge this but i am affraid the judge would say that since you defaulted why should the cred loose his interest.

Dont shoot the messenger

 

Peter