Welcome Finance Problems 1

[felixfly]

Thanks Postggj!

 

How do i know? I dont doubt what you say but just want to be sure before i start celebrating.

 

The way i was reading it was they had shown the interest then added the acceptnce fee etc. to get the total charge.

[felixfly]

Hopefully they wont be around by next week!

 

What would be the chances of whoever buys the loan getting lost after being told the agreement is unenforceable? Maybe if i offered 10% as well they would leave me alone and it would be the last i heard of it.

[postggj]

Felix

 

Look At It This Way

Say A Car Cost Five Grand

Acceptance Fee 200 Quid

If They Add The Two Ammounts Togeather, That Gives A Total Ammount Of Credit Of 5200

 

If They Then Work Out The Repayments And Add Interest On The Total Ammount, You Are Paying Interest On The Acceptance Fee Which Was Not Part Of The Original Ammount 5000

 

With The Repayments Worked In, You End Up With The Total Charge For Credit, Say Eight Grand With Whatever Apr Included.

 

More Profit For Welcome As You Are Paying Interest On 5200 Instead Of 5000

 

Hope It Makes Sense

[felixflyer]

But isnt the interest showing as £15063.80 then the charges are added to this after to get the total charge for credit of £16948.80 which plus the loan amount and divided by the number of repayments equals the monthly payment.

[postggj]

i see where you are comming from with this

interest rates are not my area, so need a cagger who is a a maths teacher

 

what we need to find out how the 15063.80 is worked out

at the apr rate

 

they do confuse these agreements, the thing is you have one apr for the loan, the second for the insurance

 

my head hurts

 

ill wait for a cagger to work out the two apr

[felixfly]

There was also a list of figures from a company called Bright Finance. Are these part of Welcome?

[Last of the Mohicans]

felixfly

 

agreement is crap

kiss welcome goodbuy

 

no wonder they were persistant in trying to get you to sign a new agreement

 

interest on acceptance fee in total ammount of credit

 

GAME OVER

 

 

Sorry Postggj - is that a 100%, copper-bottomed fact? I'm NOT questioning your wisdom - but ... can you show me where I can find legal precedent on that pretty please? (crosses eyes, legs and fingers)

 

 

FELIX: try this mate: http://www.mortgagefit.com/calculators/apr.html Its expressed in $s but that shouldnt change the outcome of the APR

Edited March 9, 2009 by Last of the Mohicans

[muzzer1066]

hi there ive been reading lots of notes on here regarding welcome finance, and unenforcable agreements, now im completly new to all this as i only registered today! so i dont even know if im doing this right! what i need to know is how on earth i find out if the agreement is unenforcable due to the whole acceptance fee/interest thing, i havent a way of scanning my agreement onto this site unfortunatly but i noticed someone else had scanned one onto this site and it looked similer to mine in that it said - total charge for credit £1.226.21 (consisting of) acceptance fee - £75.00, interest charge £1.151.21, rate of interest per annum - 55.55%.

the amount of the loan was £1500.00. in the words of the beatles, HELP!

[Last of the Mohicans]

felixfly

 

agreement is crap

kiss welcome goodbuy

 

no wonder they were persistant in trying to get you to sign a new agreement

 

interest on acceptance fee in total ammount of credit

 

GAME OVER

 

 

 

Sorry to ask again Postggj - can you show me where I can find legal precedent on that pretty please? If you (or anyone) can, I know for certain I have someone major over a barrel, but for various reasons speed is of the essense...

 

Cheers

 

Mo

[felixfly]

After looking into this myself i am now convinced that i have one of the few enforceable agreement with this company. I have some complaints about the way they have handled mine and others infomation and that they didnt freeze interest whilst i was with CCCS. However i dont think these would make a difference to the fact that this is enforceable.

 

I rang the brance and tried to set up full payments again but was told the manager wanted to speak to me and would ring back, he never did. Welcome look like they are going into administration from what i have read on other threads. More senior staff have been suspended. Would this make the agreement unenforcable? The fact that the company was up to all sorts of dodgy practices?

 

I think i will just wait to be contacted by whatever DCA takes on the loan and then try and get the balance lowered with a promise to make regular payments again.

 

I still dont fully understand how a 'Secured' loan agreement i signed with welcome can allow a different company to ask me for payments for an 'unsecured' loan which there is no contract for or for and which i have been sent no T&C's. I guess this is just the way it goes.

 

Looks like i have lost this one. At least welcome may not be around to benefit from it.

[Dipply75]

Hi felixfly, I have tried and tried and I cannot get the figures in your agreement to add up either....they just do not add up lol!

 

Looks like you have also paid interest on something other than the loan, but what? Did you get a statement of price through in your SAR request?

 

If not, you really need this...hang on in there

[Sol]

 

Sorry to ask again Postggj - can you show me where I can find legal precedent on that pretty please? If you (or anyone) can, I know for certain I have someone major over a barrel, but for various reasons speed is of the essense...

 

Cheers

 

Mo

 

It's based on Wilson v First County Trust. If you Google it, you'll find the ruling.

[felixfly]

Hi

 

I received 2 lots of info back now in response to my SAR. One had the agreement one didnt, the other also contained a load of info for someone else. None of them had a statement of price so i have asked for this. I take it my account is still in default until i get this? I still cannot get the figures to work. I think they must have special 'Welcome Finance' Calculators in their offices.

 

Also the info mentioned paying off my previous car loan but i didnt have any other info on this. Isnt an SAR supposed to include everything they have on you not just one account?

 

I have asked them to send me the info regarding this. Out of the £15000 loan they took £6000 to pay off the car loan even though i had been paying it for years. If this original loan proves to have been unenforceable then i will be asking Welcome or whoever takes them over to knock off this amount plus all monies paid on the original loan. This will probably almost wipe it off.

 

Im still wondering how a company that has behaved the way it has can actually be allowed to ask anyone for anything. All accounts should become unenforceable after some of the things im hearing.

[Dipply75]

Out of the £15000 loan they took £6000 to pay off the car loan even though i had been paying it for years

 

oh now that is interesting, one all the other unsecured agreements there is a box called 'credit to settle account no' or such like...but you get no breakdwn so you have no idea what you actually paid and if you got the normal rebates etc?

 

Hmmm, is there anyway you can check with the bank exactly how much was deposited and did they supply you with a statement?

 

Something definetely up here...

[felixfly]

There is a form saying a i received a couple of hundred pounds rebate on the original loan. This was a secured loan so perhaps it was a bit different.

[082stewie]

Hi Felix,

 

You should notice on your agreement there will be a breakdown of rebate you get when you cancel PPI under the terms of your contract.

 

Check your statement and then your contract and see if the percentage rebate matches what you were given back. If they dont match, then it was carried over onto the new loan. It should be more than a few hundred pounds if the loan is still newish (within the first 2yrs)

 

Stewie

[felixfly]

I have today received a letter from Legal Recoveries & Collections Ltd saying they have been instructed by Welcome to collect the outstanding payment of £28,000:eek:

 

They say unless i pay this by the end of next week the will have no choice but to start court proceedings against me. Where they get this figure from i dont know.

[Dipply75]

Hi Felixfly

 

Read over your 1st post and if the loan was secured on the house, which was then sold and proceeds given to Welcome....it reverts to an unsecured loan.

 

I see no need to sign a new agreement as the only difference would be that there is no security....and especially if they cannot account for every penny they are chasing y ou for.

[Peterbard]

Hi

 

Section 9 of the act says that no charges should be added to the credit even though time is given to pay them osr something like that.

I will have a lok at your agreement for you

Peter

[Peterbard]

HI

 

Having a bad night with Welcome loans yours says

 

TAC 15000

TAP 16948.8

TAP 31948.8

APR 19.06

TCC 16948.8

 

All the fees and interests are in the right place unfortunately do yu have any of the others you have taken out

 

Peter

[Peterbard]

 

Sorry to ask again Postggj - can you show me where I can find legal precedent on that pretty please? If you (or anyone) can, I know for certain I have someone major over a barrel, but for various reasons speed is of the essense...

 

Cheers

 

Mo

 

Hi

I have been succeful with many welcome agreements in the past a lot of whom still post on here.

 

The Way it works is.

 

Section 9 of the cca says that a charge for credit cannot be shown as credit on the loan so if a fee or charge or cumpulsarry insurance is mentinded in the total credit then the resultant figure for that prescribed term will be in error by that amount.

The fact that it is a prescribed term, and that it would be icorrect makes the agreement unenforceableas per wilson section127(3) etc.

 

Peter

[postggj]

take my word for it

 

when it comes to agreements and figures,

peter is the main man.

it was peter who did it for me

 

have a nose at wilson v fct

[felixfly]

Hi Peter,

 

Were you able to work out how they calculated my interest figure? I wanted to see if they added interest on to the acceptance fee but cant get the figure they get either way.

[felixfly]

Well i have managed to find my copy of the original car loan agreement.

 

[Peterbard]

Hi

A bit of good news

Is this still active don't pay a thing till i get back to you before monday.

 

fingers crossed just want to check the details.

 

Peter