C.I.T.B Levy

[panther12]

Hello there. You've posted on a very old thread. If you need further advice later, I suggest you start a new thread.

 

Good luck, HB

Hi HB, this thread came up on a citb levy search but didn’t realise it was that old – doh!! Oh well at least it’s got bumped to the top again Will start a new one if things develop and I need more help. The OP’s experience has given me a lot of confidence should the contractor decide to play hardball.

[maisielou]

Hi HB, this thread came up on a citb levy search but didn’t realise it was that old – doh!! Oh well at least it’s got bumped to the top again Will start a new one if things develop and I need more help. The OP’s experience has given me a lot of confidence should the contractor decide to play hardball.

 

 

Hi yes it was a long time ago but pleased you found it, when we went to "court" the 3 of us ( contractor husband and me) were taken into a room with the judge who listen and then made the contractor look about 3 inches tall she ripped him to shreads lol she asked my husband if he was in agreement to go away and try to come to some agreement with the contractor within the next 7 days if this failed she said i will then sort it and to be honest mr ..........( contractor) i dont like your attitude or your statement it looks like my 9 year old wrote it .so i think he knew he was on a loser lol the next day he offered the full amount plus interest.

so keep at it and good luck will watch this with interest.

[panther12]

Hi yes it was a long time ago but pleased you found it, when we went to "court" the 3 of us ( contractor husband and me) were taken into a room with the judge who listen and then made the contractor look about 3 inches tall she ripped him to shreads lol she asked my husband if he was in agreement to go away and try to come to some agreement with the contractor within the next 7 days if this failed she said i will then sort it and to be honest mr ..........( contractor) i dont like your attitude or your statement it looks like my 9 year old wrote it .so i think he knew he was on a loser lol the next day he offered the full amount plus interest.

so keep at it and good luck will watch this with interest.

Thanks maisielou, sounds like your contractor was so cock-sure of himself but glad the judge saw through his BS. The one my brother worked for stops the levy from all his employees, not just the subbies but even the ones on PAYE books. I note you went through the industrial tribunal to force him to hand over the pay slips showing what he'd stopped. Couldn't the industrial tribunal also deal with the CITB levy payments or do you have to reclaim that through the small claims court?

[maisielou]

We had a phone call from a mediator (must be something the tribunal use) she tried talking to the contractor but even she decided he was ignorant, she suggested we take him to the small claims court.

[Tawnyowl]

Hi maisielou. Looks like another interesting case. Will be interesting seeing how panther 12 goes on. I am sure it will be interesting. Also makes you wonder how widespread the CITB fiddle is.Subbing till the end.

[maisielou]

Hi Tawnyowl,

yep i think your right theres a lot of us out there, just got to keep on and get back what is legally ours (well my other halfs.....) so yea thinking about it ours lol

[coddie123]

Hi all

 

I know this is an old thread that panther12 has revived but I too found this on a Google search, the questions I have relates to the tribunal's ruling:

 

If the tribunal ruled on employment law, how could the subbie be seen to be a subbie and an employee? if they were a subbie, then the employment law relating to unlawfull deduction could not apply as they don't recieve wages but are paid for quoted work or pricework?

 

Have you since been approached by HMRC regarding your working status?

 

Thanks

[panther12]

Well we’ve received a reply back. Basically the contractor is saying they have not made any unlawful CITB deductions because these had been duly authorised and confirmed by (the other sub-contractor) who works alongside my brother on all jobs for this contractor. They say it was explained at the time to this other person that all CITB levies would be stopped - and unsure why this issue has been raised now after a period of 12 months has elapsed.

 

Now the thing is, my brother and this other sub-contractor are two separate subbies who just happen to work together on jobs for this contractor. They are separate entities who submit their own invoices for work done and are paid separately (each having the 20% tax deducted from pay, then each having 1.5% CITB stopped).

 

The other subbie says that the contractor is talking crap as he has never agreed to paying the levy and they both protested from day 1 about having the levy stopped but was made clear to them that they have no choice in the matter otherwise no further work will be forthcoming. In any event, whatever agreements this contractor has with other employees or sub-contractors is a matter between them and nothing to do with my brother.

 

Am I correct in thinking that if there is an agreement to pay the levy (as the contractor is stating) then there needs to be a written agreement or contract allowing citb to be deducted? Both my brother and the other subbie have never signed anything and have always made their objections known.

[maisielou]

Thats exactly what happened to my husband dont pay it then no work .....and thats where you have them , it is only legal to stop the levy if your brother has signed to authorise the deduction, if not its illegal.........when we went to court the first thing they asked the contractor for was the signed document stating my husband agreed to the levy being stopped when he said he didnt have it it then became illegal in fact the judge called it stealing lol

go back through my threads and print off what you can ready for your court bundle the judge was well impressed lol.

[panther12]

Thats exactly what happened to my husband dont pay it then no work .....and thats where you have them , it is only legal to stop the levy if your brother has signed to authorise the deduction, if not its illegal.........when we went to court the first thing they asked the contractor for was the signed document stating my husband agreed to the levy being stopped when he said he didnt have it it then became illegal in fact the judge called it stealing lol

go back through my threads and print off what you can ready for your court bundle the judge was well impressed lol.

Will do, thanks.

Will write back first giving them another chance and to request a copy of any signed agreement giving authorisation to deduct the levy. There's never been anything signed (written or verbal) agreeing to pay CITB so they'll have a hard job supplying anything.

[maisielou]

They will try allsorts our contractor said he couldnt "show" us the signature as they had a break in and they had taken the folder with all the signatures in lol. when i said he was supposed to have the original and a copy on disc he suddenly remembered that they has also stolen the discs lol.

[panther12]

In our previous letter we stated that if it is your contention that authorisation had been given allowing the deduction of the levy then provide a copy of any such signed agreement. I gave 14 days for a response which has fell on deaf ears. I’ve just sent a letter before action giving them one final chance to resolve this otherwise the next correspondence they receive will be direct from the court.

[panther12]

It’s been a while but can finally put closure to this now. Contractor owed my brother just over £400 in unauthorised levy deductions and finally offered £300 which we’ve accepted.

[pigtails]

Some of the federations along with the CITB issued a statement today to the construction press regarding the levy deductions. I can not post a link on this message as a message came up which said I need to have had 10 previous postings to allow this but if anyone wants to read the statement google CITB levy deductions and some of the trade papers will be running the story.

[Tawnyowl]

Thankyou pigtails.Here are a couple of links .

http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2011/12/20/subbies-wage-war-against-illegal-training-levy-deductions/

 

http://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/construction-news/dont-accept-levy-deductions-trick-self-employed-told

Edited December 21, 2011 by tawnyowl