Excel Parking - Crown Point Retail Park, Leeds

[Davren22]

Hi Guys can anybody give me any advice...

 

I went to Crown Point Retail Park in Leeds on 11th September i parked up at 9.15 but realised it was closed until 10AM so i walked over the road to visit a friend then came back at 10AM to continue my shopping got back to my car at approx 10.45 and realised i had a parking ticket for £100, parking is free for upto 3 hours at Crown Point.

 

I went into TK Maxx to ask where the parking attendants office was and explained that i had been given a ticket, she pointed me in the right direction and when i questioned the parking attendant he said i had been given the fine because i had been spotted leaving the complex, i explained that i had got there too early and did not realise that the shops did not open until 10AM, i was there so early because i was going abroad that day at 12PM for 2 weeks. I explained this to the parking attendant and showed him my receipts from Crown Point to prove that i had shopped there he said it was hard luck because i was on camera leaving the complex.

 

I returned home and tried calling them at £1.50 a minute was on the phone a few minutes on hold then it cut me off and told me to write in my letter of complaint within 7 days, i did this immediatley bearing in mind i was going on holiday in an hours time i explained my story and said i had receipts from the retail park to back up my case and explained that i would be out of the country for 14 days.

 

I came home from holiday, fully expecting the fine to have been dropped but they had sent me a letter back on the 14th September stating i was in the wrong as i had left the retail park and that there were signs there stating not to leave the retail park if parked up there (I never saw any of these) they also said that if i were to pay within 7 days they would drop the fine to £40 .. they knew i was out of the country until 26th therefore there is no way i would have know any of this.

 

Anyway i still havent paid the fine and wondered whether i should take it any further or just pay the £100 which is very steep in my opinion.

 

Any feedback would be great guys.

 

Thanks

[electron99]

As others will tell you, the correct action is to ignore all future communications from the PPC and their debt collectors.

 

I would like to widen the discussion on this.A number of PPC's will issue you with a ticket if you leave a retail park.In my view this breaches a persons human rights concerning freedom of movement. They just cannot 'fine' you if you choose to have a walk before,or after shopping.

 

In the case of this O.P, how were they to know he did not drop some shoppers of at the entrance to the car park, he then parked and stretched his legs before joining them in the centre .

 

Davren22. In the unlikely event of this ever reaching court, all you do is tell the judge what you have posted here, and you will walk out of the court smiling.

 

What you now need is nerves of steel to cope with an increasing flow of aggressive letters from this PPC. Don't waver - you have disputed the charge and can now safely ignore this and get on with your life.

 

If in doubt post each letter you receive in this thread, and you will get plenty of moral support.

[Davren22]

thanks for that, i have read a fair few threads on this forum re Excel Parking and am going to sit back and ignore any letters they send me and hope they go away.

 

One thing that i missed off my original post was that when i received the ticket there were a few boxes on there and they had to tick which one was the reason why the ticket was given they had ticked the last box labelled "other" and it then said "please specify" they left this box blank therefore i did not know why i had received the ticket, it was only after i confronted the parking attendant that i found out why i had been given the ticket. He also said i was actually spotted leaving the site by security.

[patdavies]

I would like to widen the discussion on this.A number of PPC's will issue you with a ticket if you leave a retail park.In my view this breaches a persons human rights concerning freedom of movement. They just cannot 'fine' you if you choose to have a walk before,or after shopping.

 

 

You may well be right. However, the law (HRA) deals with the relationship of the individual with the state and not between two private entities (even if one of them is a [EDIT])

[electron99]

Good on you Davren22.

To further amplify my thoughts on the issue of not being able to leave a car park on foot.

It is generally accepted that a driver in parking enters a contract with the site owner, and it is the driver that the PPC should chase.

However, if the notices in the car park (i.e the terms of the contract) restrict your right to free movement, then this is an unfair term and the contract is unenforceable.

 

Thus If the PPC issues a court summons against the DRIVER, and,

if they were claiming a reasonable amount of damages (i.e a couple of pounds), The contract would still be unenforceable because of its unfair terms..

Edited October 3, 2008 by electron99

[electron99]

You may well be right. However, the law (HRA) deals with the relationship of the individual with the state and not between two private entities (even if one of them is a [EDIT])

 

You are of course correct.But leaving aside the Human rights issue, a PPC attempting to write into a contract a clause restricting the right of the motorist to go for a walk outside the car park may make the whole contract unenforceable.

[Al27]

I think you're taking it, and their paperwork, a bit too seriously.

 

Whatever micky mouse invoice they've given you, and whatever boxes they have or haven't ticked, is neither here nor there.

 

There is no appeals procedure - this blood sucking company just wants your cash.

 

Do not contact them again. Ignore any paperwork you receive. Whatever you do, don't pay. And then sit back and relax as they waste their money sending out silly letters to you. They will give up and go away eventually.

 

Private companies how no powers to fine you - you have just been given an unenforceable invoice.

[Mossycat]

Send them a reply, do not put a stamp on the letter and mark on the outside of the envelope 'Check Enclosed'

 

Inside the envelope write on a piece of paper 'I just wanted to check that you are aware that I have no intention of paying this'

 

If they want to get their hands on the 'check' they will have to pay £1.50 to the post office

 

Mossy

[shanusascarabus]

Hello, just after some advise on this myself, i was given a ticket also for leaving this complex after parking here ( done it loads of times ), i never knew that I was not allowed to leave until i found the ticket and checked out the signs....... do i still have to pay up.... they tickeda box saying i was filmed.

If i have to pay then fair enough but just thought id ask the question.

 

Cheers guys

[Davren22]

Hi there,

 

I am not sure if there have been any changes to parking laws in the past 3 years since i received my parking ticket at Crown Point but i never paid the fine, i received a couple of chase up letters in the couple of months following but i just ignored them and they stopped and havent heard anything since. I also know that another family member also had the same problem and they too ignored and never heard anything else.

 

Thanks

[crem]

Ignore them and their future junk mail

[shanusascarabus]

Thanks Crem, however id like clarification that i wont hear anything further if i just ignore their threats.... like I said I have parked at this complex for 15 years or so, on a handful of occasions i have left the complex to go into the city centre and never heard anything.

My main concern is if i was indeed filmed then i wont have a leg to stand on if they took me to court..... if i pay up within next few days its £40.... id rather pay that than stump up £100 plus after a few months of ignoring the letters

[DBC]

Please stop taking these people seriously. They won't take you to court. It's as simple as that.

[shanusascarabus]

Im not all up on this parking business and law ect but id like to ask one simple question... how do/can they operate if they simply have no powers to make you pay up... surely they must have some powers ?

In the black and white of "their rules" I have parked in that shopping complex and walked off it..... they even went to trouble of putting the times i parked up and 15 mins later the time they issued the ticket.. on top of the "been filmed" box and number of warning signs ( 2 ).

I am in no way arguing the fact i did not break these "rules" just that i never knew they existed due to my own ignorance if you like.

 

Yes i should have driven into the city center and paid £5 per hour parking and this is the reason for parking at this shopping complex.... this is why im willing to pay the £40 however if i dont have to im sure as hell not going to

[DBC]

Don't forget that they are private citizens with no more power than you or I to demand money off people. I could put a notice up in my front garden saying that anyone who walks on my lawn must pay me £50. That's just as unenforceable as the demands sent out by these companies. All this comes under contract law and the only money they can claim is for the actual material loss suffered by the land-owner. If it's a free car-park then that amounts to nothing. Anything above that would be deemed an unfair penalty in law.

[shanusascarabus]

Ok so i guess i'll just ignore the letters/threats.... but what your saying means that technically i could park up... walk to the warden and say im leaving the complex and theres nothing you can do... stick 2 fingers up and walk off... right ???

[DBC]

Nobody on here condones abusing private parking facilities. If you have to pay to park then pay. If it's free car-park then don't keep parking there if you are not using the premises on that car park What we object to is the silly and unreasonable amounts of money demanded by these companies if you break their silly "rules".

[shanusascarabus]

Yeah im with you 100% DBC, i use the complex very regularly for shopping purposes (2-3 times p/m )... i too dont condone abusing these car parks.. i was just merely pointing out an example, now this has happened i will never use the carpark as a hop into town again but i never knew this rule beforehand... only ever noticed the "MAX 3HR PARKING"

Its because i'm "guilty as charged" that i'd be willing to pay the £40... however if they have no power to enforce this it seems a waste of money if i was to pay up

[honeybee13]

Yes, it would be a waste of your money to pay them. The guys will also tell you that you'd be wasting time as well if you engage in any sort of dialogue with them. The 'appeals' procedure is described here as a fishing exercise to try and get more information out of you.

 

The guys here know their stuff, you can trust them .

 

My best, HB

[SURFBOY]

You will get lots of letters of these people, demanding that you pay them, you must ignore these letters totaly. If you do not respond then they will eventualy give up.

The only reason they continue in buisness is because unsuspecting members of the public keep giving them money!!!

They keep on sending letters to people and people with no idea of contracts or Private Parking Companies keep paying them.

Have a good read arround this forum, you will soon get the idea.

What on earth makes you think that they can penalise you for walking off site? they are not the police or officials they are just private citizens like you or me.

IGNORE any letters they send and inform your friends of this con.

[shanusascarabus]

Thank you guys, i now feel confident enough to just ignore any correspondance from excel, It just amazes me how they are still in business if they cant force you to pay or never take you to court ( hope im not the first :-/ ).

Dont get me wrong i do feel a bit bad as i did break their "rules", but didnt do this on purpose and wont be doing it again now I know but £40... raising to £60 after 7 days then to £100 after 14 days is very excessive and if its totally unenforceable then theres no chance im paying it.

 

P.S if I end up in court and paying a huge fine I hope you guys are all chipping in hahaha

[DBC]

You won't go to court and it's not a FINE!!

[shanusascarabus]

Ok, well a big thankyou to you all, and ill keep you updated of the letters if you wish ?

[Al27]

Thank you guys, i now feel confident enough to just ignore any correspondance from excel, It just amazes me how they are still in business if they cant force you to pay or never take you to court ( hope im not the first :-/ ).

Dont get me wrong i do feel a bit bad as i did break their "rules", but didnt do this on purpose and wont be doing it again now I know but £40... raising to £60 after 7 days then to £100 after 14 days is very excessive and if its totally unenforceable then theres no chance im paying it.

 

P.S if I end up in court and paying a huge fine I hope you guys are all chipping in hahaha

 

The issue isn't about breaking the rules - this is all contract law. There are no powers in law for private companies or citizens to 'fine' people for breaking whatever rules anyone feels like making. Otherwise they could attempt to extract £100,000 from every person driving a blue car.

 

These people are still in business because not everybody is as clever as you. A lot of people never bother to Google when they get one of these tickets and have no knowledge of contract law or what a debt collector is.

[shanusascarabus]

First letter arrived demanding payment..... probably the standard one sent, You missed chance to pay reduced amount now full amount is due... was you driver/owner ect.

Ill not respond whatsoever to this