BEWARE New 'Reserve Amount' CON!!! - 22 POUND CHARGES.

[jimmi123]

Beware of the new 'reserve amount' introduced last month by Barclays which tricks you into going over your overdraft limit...even at cash machines. Then lumps you with a 22 pound bill! Barclays claim they sent all customers letters informing them of the changes but used a third party to do so and accept some will not have received them!

 

When I demanded my money back they refused.

 

I will be changing my bank.

[Bookworm]

How does it (allegedly) trick you? :-?

[jimmi123]

i was waiting for you to post here considering it seems you are the great barclays defender. It tricks you because for me for 13 years when I have attempted to withdraw lets say 50 pounds, it tells you you have only lets say 40 pounds in your account...that was until about 3 weeks ago.

 

how can this be defended?

[Bookworm]

*I* am the great barclays defender? Me? You obviously are new here.

 

Regardless. I asked a legitimate question. You make allegations of deceit and/or fraudulent practices by a bank, ANY bank, it's only fair you should get asked which practices are these... and I'm sorry to say your reply doesn't make sense. I still don't understand where the "trick" is.

[jimmi123]

I have been here long enough to read a handful of threads where you defend Barclays actions concerning this NEW charge. This is the point you are clearly missing, it's a fundamental change to barclays accounts, a change which many customers were not notified of which is even accepted by Barclays.It's a trick because before you could only withdraw what you had, now that is not the case and you get tricked into thinking that you have enough in your account to withdraw.

 

has that cleared it up for you?

[saintly_1]

It was talked about a lot on the forum when it was said that the new charges were to be introduced ......... I will try and find a link for you

 

 

*I* am the great barclays defender? Me? You obviously are new here. :grin:

 

Have to admit I had to wait until I stopped laughing too bookie when I read the reply to your post

[jimmi123]

im sure it was talked about on the forums however iv only just been referred by a good friend. Barclays should have notified me!

[saintly_1]

I got a letter from them detailing the New Charges

[saintly_1]

You can always opt out of the New Charge structure

[Spiceskull]

i was waiting for you to post here considering it seems you are the great barclays defender.

Seems and the actualitee are miles apart...perhaps you need to have a look round. Bookie loves Barclays as much as I love silence...and that is next to no love at all...

[slick132]

Hi Jimmi,

 

This matter was discussed in some detail when Barclays announced the changes - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/146962-calling-all-barclays-customers.html

 

If Barclays didn't notify you, it's a bit strange but stuff happens ! I wasn't aware that you could now withdraw money that you couldn't take out under the old rules.

 

The answer must be to check your balance before you withdraw. Also, consider opting out if that's better for you.

 

BTW, Bookworm has thrashed Barclays backside and made nearly 19K posts helping thousands of users. I would normally ask you to be respectful to other users, but Bookie is more than capable of looking after herself.

 

Have you suffered charges on your a/c which you could reclaim? Take a look at the Reclaiming Charges Guide in Link No1 in my signature below.

[Bookworm]

I have been here long enough to read a handful of threads where you defend Barclays actions concerning this NEW charge.

Show one thread, one post where I DEFEND Barclays, whether be from their old charges or their new structure. I explain it, yes, and how it works, doesn't mean I agree with it. It doesn't mean I feel the need to call Barclays by any libellous names either.

This is the point you are clearly missing, it's a fundamental change to barclays accounts, a change which many customers were not notified of which is even accepted by Barclays.

Yes, I am well aware of what a fundamental change it is, probably more than most people in fact, especially since *I* actually check my account and mail daily and therefore was fully aware of the change long before it was implemented.

It's a trick because before you could only withdraw what you had, now that is not the case and you get tricked into thinking that you have enough in your account to withdraw.

Wrong. Before, you could withdraw up to whatever Barclay's "hidden" limit was above your authorised limit, which in your case, may have been £0, obviously I don't know what your circumstances are, but the result was that people could incur £30 charges that way too. Now, the new system means you can withdraw up the level of whatever that reserve is, which then gives you that £22 fee...

 

I have to say that even if you were one of the people who didn't get their letter advising them of the change, since the system has now been in place for over 6 weeks, even if you don't bank online, it means that you must have had at least one set of statements, which would show you what the reserve amount is. At least one set of statements also contained info about the new fees structure so somewhere along the line, you have to take responsability for your actions if you were unaware of the change. It was also widely reported in the media.

 

With all I can say against Barclays, and there would be a long list, that is one thing I can say, it's that they did NOT introduce that change by stealth.

[jimmi123]

Yes, I am well aware of what a fundamental change it is, probably more than most people in fact, especially since *I* actually check my account and mail daily and therefore was fully aware of the change long before it was implemented.

 

I assumed as with most 'contracts' i enter into that the terms had not changed.

 

Before, you could withdraw up to whatever Barclay's "hidden" limit was above your authorised limit, which in your case, may have been £0, obviously I don't know what your circumstances are, but the result was that people could incur £30 charges that way too. Now, the new system means you can withdraw up the level of whatever that reserve is, which then gives you that £22 fee...

 

I have to say that even if you were one of the people who didn't get their letter advising them of the change, since the system has now been in place for over 6 weeks, even if you don't bank online, it means that you must have had at least one set of statements, which would show you what the reserve amount is. At least one set of statements also contained info about the new fees structure so somewhere along the line, you have to take responsability for your actions if you were unaware of the change. It was also widely reported in the media.

 

With all I can say against Barclays, and there would be a long list, that is one thing I can say, it's that they did NOT introduce that change by stealth.

 

In the media!!? lol. most people unlike yourself don't have enough time to scour the banking gossip columns for changes to their account. The 30 pound charges have always been in place but for direct debit transactions. Im glad that you recieved notification of the changes but I did not. When I spoke to Barclays they stated that letters were sent out by a third party and thus they had no liability with regards to the receiving of the mail which I think is very unfair.

[jimmi123]

You can always opt out of the New Charge structure

 

I have opted out of the new charge structure. However you 'opt out' of something you have agreed to in the first place.

[jimmi123]

Wrong. Before, you could withdraw up to whatever Barclay's "hidden" limit was above your authorised limit, which in your case, may have been £0, obviously I don't know what your circumstances are, but the result was that people could incur £30 charges that way too. Now, the new system means you can withdraw up the level of whatever that reserve is, which then gives you that £22 fee...

 

 

Wow... I just read this. No!!!1 It is you that is wrong. I don't know what kind of account you have but for student and graduate accounts you have never ever ever been able to withdraw more than your overdraft limit. Such accounts 'hidden limit' or whatever you like to call it has never existed. There has never been such a mysterious limit above what you have agreed with then bank. This is the issue and i'm sorry to go on but graduates like myself have been in negotiations to agree an overdraft limit which both parties agree is the be all and end all.

As for your defense concerning letters not arriving....im sure a call could easlily be made considering I receive at least three a month offering life/car insurance!

[jimmi123]

Hi Jimmi,

 

 

If Barclays didn't notify you, it's a bit strange but stuff happens ! I wasn't aware that you could now withdraw money that you couldn't take out under the old rules.

 

 

This is the whole problem. I can't speak for every account holder but for ME (and i'm sure many others) you could never withdraw anything over your overdraft limit...and with no warning taking out 9 pounds too much has cost me 22 pounds! It's madness. I called Barclays and explained but they refused to listen to me. You guys have to understand that this forum is wonderful but most people aren't aware of its existence!

[Bookworm]

In the media!!? lol. most people unlike yourself don't have enough time to scour the banking gossip columns for changes to their account.

Aww bless. That the best you can do, snide insults?

I meant no offense toward yourself, however, I have read many comments by yourself blaming Barclays users for not being aware of the changes.

I don't know about "many", but by and large, that is correct. Even if you never open a paper or switch on a TV, the fact remains that customers were notified, not just by individual letters which you maintain were sent out by 3rd party (whether that is true or not, I don't know, but I fail to see why that would make that 3rd party automatically less likely to fulfill the contract to send the letters out), but also included in the statements and on their online banking site. So yes, if people won't read the letters sent out by their bank or the leaflets sent with their statements, if they won't read the info given out on the website, if they don't ever see a TV or a newspaper, then they are likely to miss out on the information. But that doesn't make the bank blamable for it.

Regardless of whether such customers are to blame a 22 pound charge is a shift at work which if taken away means the rent isn't paid and my kids don't eat so well which I hope you can understand makes me very very angry.

I do understand that... but your anger is misdirected. If you live on the edge of your income and o/d as you say and as so many of us do too, then it is up to you to be more vigilant. If by now you haven't learned that your bank is not your friend and that they'll shaft you at every opportunity, then you need to wake up and fast or things will never improve.

It is my guess that you have an issue with Barclays which you feel is more valid than those that have lost out to this new charge.

I'm not even going to try and work out that one out. :-?

 

Re: unofficial limit. I was referring to standard current accounts, which are what the majority of people have. This is the first time you have mentioned that yours is a graduate account, and the set-up may well be different for them, I wouldn't know. I would imagine a student account may well be more restricted than a standard current account.

As for your defense concerning letters not arriving....im sure a call could easlily be made considering I receive at least three a month offering life/car insurance!

My defense? Anyway... A call offering life/car insurance is a marketing tool. If you're daft enough to have authorised them to call you for the purpose of "keeping you informed on their new products", then that is entirely your problem, although no doubt you'll blame them for that too... You could however write to them and tell them you no longer want your data processed in that manner and to remove your telephone no from the marketing lists. But as regards changes to the T&Cs, it is quite obvious to the simplest mind that since this is a change to the core terms of the contract between the bank and the customer, they can not do it by phone!

 

Ok, let's cut to the chase: Say that you decide to go to court to reclaim those charges. Your argument is that you were never made aware of the changes. Barclays' defence will be that they sent out letters, they sent leaflets with customers' statements, the matter was widely reported in the media, and explained at length on their website, before, during and still is there now. Which way do you think the judge would go?

 

Look, there is nothing to stop you starting the process of reclaiming those charges. But let me tell you right now that if you try and use the "I wasn't told about the changes until I got stung by them" argument, you will fail. Normally, I'd be able to guide you through the process with my eyes closed, but I'll be honest, this is a time of uncertainty. This new system has been implemented to try and circumvent the penalty argument and present them as a service and as it is still new, I don't think anyone has challenged it in court yet... My gut feeling is that it is still challengeable under the UTCCR as unfair terms, but it won't be as easy as before to convince a judge if they decided to fight it... OTOH, we don't know whether they would actually fight it or not or posture and cave in as they used to... Like I said, uncertain times. Nothing to stop you giving it a try, though. ;-)

[jimmi123]

My gut feeling is that it is still challengeable under the UTCCR as unfair terms, but it won't be as easy as before to convince a judge if they decided to fight it... OTOH, we don't know whether they would actually fight it or not or posture and cave in as they used to... Like I said, uncertain times. Nothing to stop you giving it a try, though.

 

After skimming through all that uneccessary offensive speil actually some serious advice sneaked in right at the end.

 

Could have saved us a lot of time - essentially could be unfair terms but when it comes down to it im never going to get anything back. I felt this would be the case, it is however seriously infuriating!

[Bookworm]

My advice was serious from the start :

 

1) Read what the bank sends you, it actually contains vital information as well as sales stuff.

2) Don't trust them to do you a favour, that's not what they're for.

3) Stop ranting and raving about your bank's shortcomings and take control of your finances wherever you can.

4) Don't even think of going to court on the "it's all their fault I didn't know about the new system".

5) Opt-out of the marketing list.

6) An attitude adjustment wouldn't go amiss.

[dragora]

Hello, my 1st experience of this site. I have issues with Barclay's, but am coping at present. Thank you, Bookworm, for some excellent guidelines. I guess finances will always be an emotive subject. Jimmi123, don't waste energy on anger, studies and family need positive energy. Regards.

[victimnomore]

Nice post dragora.

 

And .. welcome to the forum.

 

Do start your own thread, when you're ready to tell your story.

 

Let's see if we can help!

[Rams75]

Isnt this the equivalent of inertia selling?

 

Ie I leave a book on ur doorstep - u dont send it back - so I charge you.

 

How can Barclays "opting in" their customers be considered proper?

[SydneyBristowe]

Gah! I wish I'd known about opting out - although I do realise that was probably my fault for not reading the letter properly when it came. Usually when letters come about charges there are no options!! - I have an account that I opened up with no overdraft and specifically said when I opened it that I didn't want to be able to go overdrawn - Thanks to a 6 pound overlimit the charges have no snowballed to more than £300 *eeep*

[slick132]

Hi SB,

 

You can opt out from now on if you wish and revert to the old charging system.

 

Also, given the small amount, £6, which caused your problem and the huge amout that resulted (£300), I would speak to Cust'r Svs or go in person to speak to a manager (by appointment) at the branch.

 

Ask for an explanation of how this has spiralled and see if they are willing to remve or reduce the charges on this occassion.

 

[MyBankNeedsSlapping]

Just arrived here after search for fellow... victims or idiots???

 

I had heard of the Reserve Account but wasn't aware of how it would be 'sold'...

 

I miscalculated the state of my account and withdrew money I didn't have from the cashpoint. The problem is two fold, the reserve charges and spending money I didn't have.

 

The problem with the 'opt out' process is the onus it places on the customer to study in detail every last piece of junk or bank mail that comes through the door and keep an eye on the media.

 

All to make sure of keeping up to date with everything else that will have to be 'opted out' of. It is a dangerous precedent.

 

I posted a new thread with a facebook link going into more detail and opinion... link is with the thread Barclays Reserve Fightback Facebook Campaign.

 

Best wishes

 

MyBankNeedsSlapping