ScabHunter v Cabot

[ScabHunter]

Right. First things first.

 

I've just received a letter from Cabot. I've already read all of the Cabot threads on this forum, so I know what to expect.

 

Their opening letter already sees them playing silly buggers. It says "Thank you for your letter acknowledging your debt to Cabot." As both they and I know, I have never sent them any kind of letter about anything, yet.

 

I understand the first step is to send a CCA - £1 postal order, no signature, recorded delivery. I assume that there is nothing else to do until I get the result of that.

 

I believe there is a template letter on here somewhere. I'll try and find it.

 

Is it better to use the template exactly, or reword it so they don't immediately think "Oh no not one of those CAG b*****ds again", and get even worse?

 

It is obvious that there are people on this forum who seriously know what they are doing with credit law, even if they aren't actually lawyers.

 

If there is anything else I should be doing, any input would be appreciated.

 

SH

[rory32]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

I understand the first step is to send a CCA

That would depend on the type of account. Certain types of accounts are not covered by the CCA. It would also depend on when the account was taken out which Act applies e.g. the 1974 or the 2006 Act.

Is it better to use the template exactly, or reword it so they don't immediately think "Oh no not one of those CAG b*****ds again", and get even worse?

DCA's are not overly fond of CAG and you are actually less likely to get grief if they are aware you know your rights and will not be bullied by them.

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome, Scabhunter.

 

I'll move this thread to the Debt Collectors Forum, you'll get all the help you need in there.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[ScabHunter]

Thanks for the welcome guys,

 

Rory, the account is a credit card from 2003, so I assume it is covered by the CCA 1974.

 

I will send the template letter exactly as it is, then.

 

Thanks,

SH

[rory32]

Rory, the account is a credit card from 2003, so I assume it is covered by the CCA 1974.

 

Yes.

[ScabHunter]

OK, just to update the situation. I sent a CCA request on 25/9/08.

 

I have just received THREE letters from Cabot on the same day.

 

The first one is the predictable response that says "We acknowledge receipt of your request under sections 77 and/or 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Cabot Financial Group is not obliged to provide this information but we are pleased to help and have already requested the documentation for you from the original lender.

 

We anticipate that we will be able to provide this information within 12 days. In the event we are unlikely to obtain this information within those time limits, we will write to you again."

 

The second letter says "Thank you for your letter acknowledging your debt to Cabot."

 

The ONLY letter that I have sent to them is the CCA letter, which began "I acknowledge NO debt......"

 

The third letter says "Thank you for your recent payment". On the left hand side of the letter, the amount they are claiming I owe them has been reduced by £1.

 

This means that they have taken my £1 CCA request fee and used it towards the alleged debt.

 

(The amount they are claiming I owe them is completely nonsensical anyway as it is way above any credit card limit I have ever had in my life, but that is another story)

 

So, apart from waiting for them to comply with the CCA request, is there anything else I should be doing, bearing in mind that they have used money that was sent to them strictly for one purpose, for something completely different?

 

SH

[PGH7447]

No just keep all these letters safe, the £1 was obviously for the CCA request they are just trying to use it to restart the clock on the debt, totally unlawful.

 

the second letter is just the usual b*llsh*t

 

and the first means nothing they know they have to provide but this is their standard response.

 

12+2 days and counting

[ScabHunter]

Thanks PGH7447.

 

The only question is, if they have done something unlawful, should I not be instigating a complaint through their internal procedures?

 

SH

[PGH7447]

Yes you can raise a complaint about their total disregard to you CCA request and that they appear to have used the fee towards the alledged debt

[ScabHunter]

The initial time limit on the CCA is up at the end of this week, so I will leave it and see what happens.

 

If they don't come up with anything by early next week I'll start going through their complaints procedure.

 

The more times they breach regulations or laws the better as it increases the chances of getting the FOS to look at the case further down the line.

 

Is the complaints procedure on Seahorse's blog still relevant? I notice they can't be bothered to put one on their own site.

 

If anybody can clarify exactly which law or regulation has been broken by them using my £1 for purposes other than the intended one, that would be very helpful.

 

Thanks,

SH

[ScabHunter]

Right, as the CCA request was sent off on the 25th September the 12+2 is up now.

 

First question - has the 30 day rule which followed this now been repealed? There seems to be some confusion on this point.

 

Secondly - what is the best thing to do now? I have read a post by "andyorch" which says that the best thing to do once they are in default is nothing. Just ignore everything. "Don't poke the bear".

 

I can see the logic in this argument, certainly, but Crapot are trying to play silly buggers here. They have put my £1 postal order, which was clearly for the CCA request, towards the alleged debt. This is clearly designed to wipe off the two years in which there has been no contact with anyone about this alleged debt.

 

I can see serious problems further down the line if Crapot manage to come up with a valid CCA in four years time. They will claim that this £1 "payment" will acknowledge the debt, and that it will not therefore be statute barred. Would any court dealing with the case not expect me to have complained to the relevant authorities about this blatant misuse of the legally required CCA fee?

 

I don't want to make any mistakes that could come back to haunt me in the future.

 

SH

[PGH7447]

30 day rule no longer applies

 

yes you can do nothing or you can write and remind them that due to non compliance of CCA request this account is now in dispute and that any further attempts to enforce collection without a cca is unlawful etc etc

[berrylover]

Dear Sir,

Re:−

FORMAL NOTICE - ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE.

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY.

On the (enter date) I wrote to you requesting a copy of the credit agreement and other information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

 

To date you have failed to comply with these requests in any way.

 

These documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you enter into a default situation.

 

These limits have expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware the Consumer Credit Act states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counter-claim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days of the initial request to stop processing my details, provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’. You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit including but not limited to Trading Standards, the Office of Fair Trading, the Information Commissioners Office, The Financial Ombudsman Service and my MP .

You have 7 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Send them this, again UNSIGNED, by recorded delivery.

[ScabHunter]

Reply received today from Crapbot Farcical.

 

It appears to just be a standard template letter as I'm sure I've seen it quoted on several threads.

 

"Dear Mr xxxxxxx,

 

Your request

 

We write further to your request for information under sections 77 and/or 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Although Cabot has requested this information, the original lender is experiencing a delay in retrieving the information from its archives.

 

We shall send the information as soon as we receive it.

 

The status of your account

 

We will as a gesture of goodwill put your account on hold until we receive further communication from the original lender."

 

 

I take it it is now best to do nothing and wait for them to make the next move.

 

They have still committed one nasty act by misappropriating my £1 postal order, and using it to reduce the balance of the alleged debt. This could have implications in future years if statute barring ever becomes an issue.

 

I take it it is better not to pursue that at the moment, and keep it in reserve for the future?

 

SH

Edited October 17, 2008 by ScabHunter
typo

[maroondevo52]

Hi, SH.

 

I got the same letter about 6 months ago, heard nothing since, one of these days I'll take it further

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[ScabHunter]

Right, there has been a significant development in my fight against Crapbot. After nearly a year of total inactivity, the little darlings have managed to do the near impossible and find a so-called "agreement" from Crapital One.

 

The document is a simple application form, with nothing which could possibly pretend to be a prescribed term on it anywhere. Included with the form is one sheet purporting to be a set of T&Cs, but there is absolutely nothing to link the two sheets of paper.

 

Also included are statements, which interestingly show that payment protection insurance was added to the alleged account on several occasions, even though the application form proves quite clearly that I ticked "NO" to PPI. Indeed, I would not even have been eligible for it at the time.

 

The one concern is that the back of the application form purporting to be a CCA is blank, meaning that there is no proof as to what is on the reverse of the original.

 

So, the question is, how best to respond? My own thoughts are to record a formal complaint against their ridiculous letter which they have sent to me saying "Thank you for your letter acknowledging your debt to Cabot" (it goes without saying that I sent no such letter), a formal complaint against their misappropriation of funds in applying the £1 statutory fee to the alleged account when it was clearly intended as the statutory fee for the CCA request which they have now complied with, and then to stand firmly behind the unenforceability of the agreement.

 

I think I should include a paragraph informing them "for the avoidance of doubt" that the Rankine case only relates to a section of the CCA 1974 which deals with situations where the court has discretion, and that an "agreement" containing none of the prescribed terms falls under a different section where the court does NOT have the power to overturn the High Court precedent and make the agreement enforceable.

 

I am tempted to leave the other inadequacies of their argument for the formal defence in court. I will leave it up to you to work out why.

 

Now that Crapbot have produced a piece of paper, however blatantly unenforceable, there is no doubt that this will end up in a court room. It is absolutely essential that I don't do anything which could prejudice the case when the document they need to rely on is so blatantly inadequate (IF the judge bothers to apply the law).

 

I am dealing with one seriously slippery and seriously nasty organization, so any feedback which will help will be seriously appreciated.

 

SH

[DonkeyB]

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