Moonwitch V MBNA

[moonwhich7]

Could they be calling my bluff.

 

If they know they can't enforce the debt (if that really is the case). They are obviously not going to put there hands up and say " Alright Guv, it's a fair cop". By refusing to discuss it any further they have really put the ball in my court, so to speak. I would imagine alot of people might not be prepared to take matters further or know that they can. So if I were to prepare to take full legal action are they likely to back off when they realise I am not going to go away.

 

Just thinking out load.

[dpick]

Could they be calling my bluff.

 

If they know they can't enforce the debt (if that really is the case). They are obviously not going to put there hands up and say " Alright Guv, it's a fair cop". By refusing to discuss it any further they have really put the ball in my court, so to speak. I would imagine alot of people might not be prepared to take matters further or know that they can. So if I were to prepare to take full legal action are they likely to back off when they realise I am not going to go away.

 

Just thinking out load.

 

Hi just send them a copy of your previous letter and include at the bottom of the letter "No further communication or payment will be made with regard to this alleged debt unless ordered to by HM court service.

 

dpick:)

[car2403]

If you do take Court action (which you can, based on info on this site and support on your thread) they will drag that out and out and out - they are more likely to settle before the hearing than turn up, but they will push it as far as it will go beforehand. There is also the possibility that they do defend and turn up at Court, in which case you need to be prepared to fight your corner and know your case inside and out, so you can convince the Judge to side with you.

 

There is always the Financial Ombudsman Service if you don't fancy taking Court action, but that's a bit of a White Elephant, IMHO - ask yourself why they promote that as a resolution path? It's because the FOS decides cases based on anything other than legal precedent and that usually results in a decision for the Bank.

 

IMHO, the only effective way to deal with this is Court, as that shows you know what you are talking about and are willing to go all the way.

 

You're right, most people give up, which just makes me more angry and want to continue - take a look at the threads with my username in the title if you want to see what you're up against. The result? I'm now debt free and have been for months, plus I will never take credit out again.

[moonwhich7]

Good Morning

 

Last night I managed to get a proper look at the second letter that had arrived yesterday. And I have to admit I am a bit confused.

 

 

It states that the account is only 2 months in arrears ( they point out they have to tell me under the CCA blah blah) and that thay may at some point in the future consider recovery action. I first contacted them myself just over 2 months ago when I found out they were bothering my mum over missed payments. I was told then that it was coming up to 6 months in arrears.

 

Now, over the last few weeks I have been told repeatedly that the account is over 7 months in arrears and was due to be sold on in 7 days!

 

In the envelope with the letter there were two information sheets. One with telephone numbers for advice lines and free info. The other from the OFT with a list of do's and don'ts in this situation. One of these giving advice not to borrow against your house to pay a debt.

 

MBNA sent a letter to my mum a couple of weeks ago suggesting just that.

 

It almost seems like they are back peddleing and doing everything by the book this time.

 

Does anyone else think this is all a bit strange or do you know what they are up to?

 

Hmmmmm

[lexis200]

I find this very interesting, as OH hasn't been paying the minimums for about 3 months now (he reduced it in line with a payment plan offer instead), but he's not had anything like this.

 

Very strange if they are required to do so under the Act...

 

I have no idea what they're up to with you, but I suspect that neither do they! A**e and elbow comes to mind when fielding any information from them.

[Chalkitup]

Hello Moonwitch,

 

MBNA do nothing "by the book"!!!!

 

From 1st October creditors have to inform customers of certain things .... Notice of arrears and charges come to mind .... they have to send you info every six months I think ..... and I have received the OFT leaflet as well ..... I considered it slightly in favour of the creditor to be honest ..... all this "make contact and arrange a payment plan" type stuff ..... nothing about CCA requests???

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[moonwhich7]

Ok Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. So the info bit is cleared up.

 

But I still don't get the descrepency of how many months the account has been in arrears.

 

I thought I read somewhere that 7 mths is the deadline when they have to take some kind of action. By saying that it is only 2 mths behind they have now given themselves another 5 months to threaten me into submission. Rather than sell on, which they supposedly can't as the account is in dispute or take me to court which I don't think they particulary want to do, taking all things to account, because they will lose.

 

Even if the new rules state they have to do this (send letter) surely they would have to put the correct months of arrears, or is it just the last two? Which makes it all very confusing.

 

Or am I just being thick!!! ......and paranoid.

 

 

 

Moon

Edited October 24, 2008 by moonwhich7

[Chalkitup]

Hello Moonwitch,

 

What you must remember here is that letters from creditors are meant to worry and scare you into paying ..... The MBNA threat machine has gone into action against your Mother. Believe me you will be receiving all sorts of letters containing threats and half truths. The only time I started getting letters that were any where near true was when I started my complaints to the various credtitors and even then the way they try to cover over the truth is incredible.

 

Just looked at the paperwork I have received this month from creditors regarding these Notice of Arrears ....

 

On all accounts I have not made minimum payment for over four months...

 

Barclaycard just say "you have failed to make a minimum payment"

 

MBNA say "On the date of this notice you are £???? in arrears"

 

Etc .... none actually give a definite number of months in arrears!!

 

 

MBNA used all sorts of tactics on me regarding how long before they sell the account etc .... it ranged from next week to seven months ..... It was actually longer than that before they sold on an account ...... all they are interested in is getting some payment .... I was informed by most creditors that if my reduced payment will not cover the debt being paid off completely in ten years then they usually sell it on.

 

I have two MBNA accounts by the way .... hence one sold on and receiving Notice of Arrears letter on the other.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[moonwhich7]

Thanks again Chalkitup.

 

Panic over. Phew

 

I just want to make sure I don't miss anything, no matter how small, I really don't know what could be of importance, either now or in the future. If I have got a long battle on my hands I want to be on top of it and in control with nothing sneaking up from behind.

 

 

Moon

[citizenB]

I find this very interesting, as OH hasn't been paying the minimums for about 3 months now (he reduced it in line with a payment plan offer instead), but he's not had anything like this.

 

Very strange if they are required to do so under the Act...

 

I have no idea what they're up to with you, but I suspect that neither do they! A**e and elbow comes to mind when fielding any information from them.

 

No, I havent received anything like this either. I too was advised that they sell on after 7 months. I havent received anything from them for going on for 4 weeks now... they have either given up.. or are plotting something really evil

[moonwhich7]

Ah! Ha!

 

So my paranoia could be justified after all. It might still be a 'cunning plan' thought up by some MBNA imbecile.

 

Edited October 24, 2008 by moonwhich7

[lexis200]

So my paranoia could be justified after all. It might still be a 'cunning plan' thought up by some MBNA imbecile.

 

Yes, but seeing as they seem to be about as adept as Baldrick at producing 'cunning plans', I reckon you're ok:D

[moonwhich7]

MBNA have just informed me that they will be selling on this account on the 31st Oct. They noted that the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) is being dealt with and will be with me in the next couple of days. But unless I agree to a payment plan, right now, there is nothing to stop them. The fact that they have not yet supplied the agreement in it's original form was laughed at. It was inferred, that it means nothing!!!!

[angel_1]

hello all and especially moowhich7

 

well mbna have not yet told me they are selling the debt on but more or less told me that they have supplied a legible cca on 2 of the 3 accounts, well, i need a magnifying glass so i dont reckon its legible do you ? lol

 

also they have exhaused their compliants and believe their own trappings of self importance - told me in their own language of sorts to send my complaint to the ombudsman...........great

 

lets see if he agreement dont mean anything, im going to visit my local trading standards with all my cca's to check this out further so will update you soon

 

maybe it might be better they sell on, then can you just send them the disputed letter as you have not had a cca and see what responce that brings?

 

guess others more experienced will come along to reassure you more

 

take care ciao for now MAZ

[Chalkitup]

Hello Moonwitch,

 

Usual MBNA threats ..... best not to talk to them on the phone (unless you record the calls) as they say all sorts of things that they would never back up in writing!! It is how they work ... get you confused and worried so you agree to things without having time to think.

 

Most of the MBNA muppets I spoke / speak (I record all calls) with do not even know what a CCA request is!!! They are there only to get you to part with cash to pay some of the debt off. As I said before ... the MBNA threat machine has swung into action against your Mum and they will say all sorts .... I was told many many times that my debt would be sold on in a few days .... it took months!!

 

Hello Maz,

 

Good luck with your visit to Trading Standards with your CCA's ...... I hope you speak with somebody there who knows exactly what they should contain to be enforceable ...... Personally I doubt you will find such a person there!!!

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[moonwhich7]

Hello Maz

 

Thanks so much for your post. Was feeling a bit low last night but have perked up a bit today. Good Luck! with the Trading Standards. I emailed them myself a couple of weeks ago explaining the situation and asking for advice. I am still waiting for a reply.

 

Let me know how you get on. Will keep an eye on your thread.

 

 

Ahhh, Chalkitup.

 

Where would I be if you weren't there to smooth my ruffled feathers.

 

Deep down I knew he was talking out of his a*se and didn't allow myself to react to his blinding ignorance. I still came off the phone feeling angry and frustrated though.

 

Earlier in the conversation he had offered me a one off payment agreement of £1600 I replied that it was very sweet of him to try to help me out (which he was insisting he was doing) but I had already been offered the figure of £1200 a couple of weeks ago by his manager (quite true) so was hardly likely to find his offer any more attractive. It was after this that he got a bit miffed and it was him who finally said he didn't want to continue the conversation with ME!

 

I had been utterly charming

Edited October 28, 2008 by moonwhich7

[Chalkitup]

Ahhh, Chalkitup.

 

Where would I be if you weren't there to smooth my ruffled feathers.

 

I had been utterly charming

 

 

Hello Moonwitch,

 

Always glad to help and offer advice ..... and I am sure you are always utterly charming ..... people from our location always are :grin:

 

I was also offered one off settlement payments by different MBNA staff over a two month period ..... they went up and down and varied by £4000!!!!!!!

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[moonwhich7]

I have just found out that the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) for mum's account arrived today. Apparently there are well over a hundred pages. Some include telephone conversations and what appear to be computor screen images and data print outs.

 

Unfortunately there is far to much to scan and it would be best to send it to me, but this will take time. I probably won't get it till next Tue.

 

There is info I want to find for myself, such as the last time the card was used and the balance at that time. I have asked my friend to search for this.

 

Is there anything at all amongst the paperwork, that might be relevant to the situation right now, that would help? I could get it scanned to me now.

 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or advice.

 

Moon

Edited October 28, 2008 by moonwhich7

[citizenB]

I doubt very much that the transcripts of telephone calls will be of much use unless your mother has offered to sell her soul at some stage to repay the amount said to be owed.

 

Statements are a good source of information, if PPI has been added where it wasnt requested. YOu can check interest rates as well to see if they are correct. Have they supplied ALL statements from the opening of the account because if they havent then they will be unable to confirm the accuracy of the brought forward figure on the first of the statements they have supplied this will obviously cause doubt on the final statement and the monies they are demanding. Oh and of course you want a legible copy of the agreement/application form

 

As I have only ever been supplied with statements back to 2002 (account opened 1998) and a few copy letters, a list of calls they say they made and went unanswered (bit difficult for them really as they dont have my current telephone number) I cant really advise what you should be looking for.

[moonwhich7]

Hello CitizenB

 

Nice to read you again;)

 

I have had the whole lot posted to me this morning.

 

It does appear however that MBNA have been selective in what they have sent. My friend spent the evening trying to find the info I wanted first but surprise:eek: surprise:eek: it is not there.

 

They have supplied details of direct debit transactions, set in place in 1999 for minimum payment only (last payment in Apr) but not when my mother used the card to make purchases or the on going balance. Info regarding the interest rates charged over the years also seems to have gone AWOL as are the monthly statements. So I still don't know the last time my mother used the card, it has to be over 2 years ago though.

 

I don't know how far back the paperwork goes and the phone calls are in verbal shorthand. I think they have picked out the sentences that they like best and have dumped the rest. And some phone calls are missing completely. No surprise there then either.

 

I will have a better idea of exactly what they have deemed fit for me to see when I get my hands on it myself. Hopefully in a few days.

 

Thanks again for stopping by.

 

Moon

Edited October 29, 2008 by moonwhich7

[citizenB]

Hello CitizenB

 

Nice to read you again;)

 

 

I have had the whole lot posted to me this morning.

 

It does appear however that MBNA have been selective in what they have sent. My friend spent the evening trying to find the info I wanted first but surprise:eek: surprise:eek: it is not there.

 

Oh yes, they know how to be selective. Make a note as you go through what they have sent you.. of the information they havent. This will be useful in the first instance to ask them for it and in the 2nd instance to send to the Information Commissioners Office to see if they can wiggle either the information you want or reason why they havent got it out of MBNA

 

They have supplied details of direct debit transactions, set in place in 1999 for minimum payment only (last payment in Apr) but not when my mother used the card to make purchases or the on going balance. Info regarding the interest rates charged over the years also seems to have gone AWOL as are the monthly statements. So I still don't know the last time my mother used the card, it has to be over 2 years ago though.

 

Put this information on your list. I think you need it to ensure the amount they are asking for is correct. After all we, know they make mistakes I doubt very much if you have the full wack of statements back to 1999. But you do need them.

 

I don't know how far back the paperwork goes and the phone calls are in verbal shorthand. I think they have picked out the sentences that they like best and have dumped the rest. And some phone calls are missing completely. No surprise there then either.

 

Yep, this is MBNA procedure. Only keep phone calls that are showing the customer in a bad light, or where they have asked for PPI or an extension of credit, etc. Where MBNA have said that UK laws dont apply to them or have made threatening calls to your parent.. they will be missing.

 

I will have a better idea of exactly what they have deemed fit for me to see when I get my hands on it myself. Hopefully in a few days.

 

Dont read it in bed.. the contents of an MBNA are usually pretty boring and guaranteed to send you to sleep:roll:

 

Thanks again for stopping by.

 

Moon

 

Have fun

[moonwhich7]

Thanks for the advice CitizenB. I had a few sample pages of info scanned to me including the phone calls, before it was sent and can see that it will be a very long process trawling through it all. I may need the assistance of very strong coffee or very large vodkas.

 

Just to clarify, in case someone may think it is important at some time. The direct debit was set up in 1999 but the credit card agreement was signed in 1994. So as you say it is very doubtfull that they will have full details of the account going back 14 years.

 

If my posts in a few days time don't make sense and are full of expletives, you'll know I opted for (or perhaps was driven to) the vodkas.

Edited October 29, 2008 by moonwhich7

[citizenB]

Thanks for the advice CitizenB. I had a few sample pages of info scanned to me including the phone calls, before it was sent and can see that it will be a very long process trawling through it all. I may need the assisstance of very strong coffee or very large vodkas.

 

Just to clarify, in case someone may think it is important at some time. The direct debit was set up in 1999 but the credit card agreement was signed in 1994. So as you say it is very doubtfull that they will have full details of the account going back 14 years.

 

If my posts in a few days time don't make sense and are full of expletives, you'll know I opted for (or perhaps was driven to) the vodkas.

 

1994.. woohoo.. even better. I think you might end up earning the Vodka

[lexis200]

Originally Posted by lexis200

I find this very interesting, as OH hasn't been paying the minimums for about 3 months now (he reduced it in line with a payment plan offer instead), but he's not had anything like this.

 

Very strange if they are required to do so under the Act...

 

Just to keep you company, OH now has one of these to add to his collection:D They also show 2 payments in arrears, not the 4(I think) we're up to now on the reduced payment.

 

Have you heard anything about it being sold on btw? You mentioned the 31st in one of your posts, and I was just wondering if the lack of updates meant they had 'forgotten' that they threatened you with that?

 

Lexis:)

[moonwhich7]

Hi Lexis

 

Thanks for popping by. You are quite right, they assured me they would be selling on the debt on the 31st of Oct. So I am just playing the waiting game to see what or who turns up next. Nothing so far.

 

In the meantime I have been trawling through all the reams of paper they sent in response to my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). And it seems, (much like yourself I see from your thread), that they have provided me with a paperwork puzzle. Nothing is straight forward and all written in bank speak. I feel a bit like a detective might. Trying to translate, tally dates, transactions and phonecalls. I don't actually think that there is much that will help me. However there overview of some of the phonecalls I have had with them and others in the past with my mother have been concerning. Firstly that they bear little resemblence to the actual conversations I have had ( one noted it was obvious I was just playing for time.......... MOI !!! surely not )and secondly that they were aware of my mothers confusion over a year ago this was actually noted and mentioned again in subsequent entries of calls.

 

The info only goes back to 2002 and there is whole year missing from the phonecall section between Nov 2004 and Nov 2005. There are many entries where they have logged that no verification was given before a phone call conversation commenced.

 

I can see that my mother was only managing to pay off between £4 - £1 a month of her debt, with her minimum payments, after the interest was added. Her final payment, the interest was actually more than she paid.

 

Not sure if any of this is important or not.

 

Edited November 6, 2008 by moonwhich7